The Sheriff's Department & You

[.Pluto.]

7 minutes ago, Nikki said:

I never claimed it was subpar roleplay as fact. I said I felt like it was. That isnt the same as saying you guys are bad roleplayers. Please do not confuse it as such to avoid missunderstanding.

 

Does that mean it is realistic and acceptable to do so? From your replies I'd start to believe the OOC corruption ruling is a bit lose enforced. Riot control techniques were utulized against peacefull protestors for no appearent reason.

 

I am not talking about the bus ride home, idc if they had to walk back home to be honest. My problem lays with deputies appearntly freely being allowed to put people against a wall, cock their rifles, aim, and then laugh it off. How can you even /defend/ this as realistic and acceptable behaviour for deputies on an OOC level? This isn't even police brutality anymore, this is FELONY for Criminal Threats.

 

This is the exact reason no one goes to internal affairs, as you later mention. ''Do you know which deputy did it? Do you have a badgenumber or a name? Can you describe their faces?'' No, no, no, and no. They wore masks, had badgenumber and nameplate taped off. And you are surprised people are not going to internal affairs? I am not surprised at all. This was blatant abuse of power on an OOC corruption level. Just because ''an LT has it'' doesn't mean everyone that follows his command should have it.

 

This was Nikki, yes. A nineteen year old who was arrested for obstruction and evasion, as a first offense, is thrown into county jail with the big mafia bosses, gangster OG's, sureno top and nazi's veterans. Ofcourse a nineteen year old girl that is not a criminal whatsoever and barely has any muscles will be scared to shit. When will TTCF finally be mapped to seperate minimum from maximum security?

She broke down because some random deputy wanted to see her papers which she never ever ICly received. I was not even notified through /b with ''ICly your character has papers regarding her prison sentence''. As of such, I had no, I'd be powergaming if I roleplayed I had papers. Nikki, fearing for her life inside and afraid she'd never get out due to these non-excistent papers indeed broke down infront of a deputy. Is that so weird? Not everyone is a seasoned criminal with 10 kills on their name.

 

On my other past characters Ariana Palaciö and Isabelle Kirkland Ive witnessed the exact same corruption within the jail system. Deputies not giving a single shit, treating everyone like literal animals and even instigating and provoking confrontation for some reason.

 

So what you're basicly saying, we can no longer IA report it because someone complains about it OOCly? Thats honestly the biggest bull Ive heard so far.

 

I left a few things out from my reply as those have been sufficiently answered.

You should just stop. It's all an IC issue. I don't know why are you seeking attention, or arguing about everyone's roleplay on an OOC level on forums, while not considering your own before doing it. People sent you 20 videos, explaining the situation, those things happen in real life really often. You're once again denying facts because salt in your mouth. The point in covering badges and putting masks on their head during the protest is that they can beat the shit out of the protesters, so no one knows who in the hell is hitting them. That's like, 97% of IRL protests. Custodial Deputies are extremely low paid, and work a lot, so what do you think why are they acting like that? No one will give a shit when they beat the shit out of some felon, or bigger criminal in prison, they're taking their own rage on them. It is not abuse of power on OOC level. It's abuse of power on IC level. Which is, once again, IC issue. Before mentioning what is a crime of criminal threat, please educate yourself just a little bit about some law stuff. What you should do is, take it ICly, find someone and make a lawsuit, go and report them to Internal Affairs, the Lt. who told everyone to cover their faces DIDN'T HAVE HIS FACE COVERED, you have one suspect there. Put all the guilt on him, report it to Internal Affairs, take it to Court. Stop being triggered OOCly about completely IC stuff. You're wasting words here, and everyone's time, people are explaining everything to you and you are ignoring the facts, once again, because of the salt in your mouth. Your character being in prison? There are small burglars, robbers, or even currupt public officials, in the same prison with murderers and gun dealers. You got arrested for it and you even plead guilty or no contest, not even trying to fight your case in court. If you did it post arrest? You'd be out on a small bail in two hours. Then there'd be no mental breakdown. You're claiming everyone's roleplay is subpar, for whatever reason. You're known to take all IC stuff OOCly. Please, don't bother replying, you're wrong, take a chill pill and take it ICly.

[ThatDutchPerson]

5 minutes ago, lambchops said:

https://lssd.gta.world/viewtopic.php?f=204&t=296

Yes, because people will head over to the LSSD website for their couple of hours.

This should be mentioned ingame upon booking, its not that hard and done in less than 30 seconds.

 

About the rest, I gladly accept your invite for the faction report.

With that, I'll be dropping the discussion as some people rather talk about unrelated things, trying to derail the topic.

If people have a problem with my roleplay, there is a report section on the forums.

[lambchops]

Although I know this is a public topic where everyone can leave feedback. I am going to have to ask all of you to leave your feedback on ThatDutchPerson's post with my reply. I know you have your own opinions on what they said but this is not the place to have a pissing match with them. We have replied to them and that should be enough, thanks!

[lambchops]

13 minutes ago, Nikki said:

Yes, because people will head over to the LSSD website for their couple of hours.

I am afraid that roleplay takes some time to make sure you have got the knowledge you need to play your role. If this is your reply to the fact information you were lacking before is freely available at the click of a link, I sadly do not know how to help you.

[Keane]

@Nikki to be honest, it seems like you feel that a lot of what was done is bad roleplay due to a lack of understanding on the topic. Several people replied with articles and videos to guide you in the right direction. Ever since the faction was founded, the objective was to provide realistic roleplay with heavy inspiration from the LASD. What you have seen is just that and people have been trying to explain that to you.

Protests in the USA are never peaceful despite how the media paints them. Failing to disperse when law enforcement ask you to is breaking the law. Throwing rocks at law enforcement is breaking the law. Trespassing is breaking the law. Riot control tactics have evolved over the years and if you watch some videos of protests in 2020, you'll see even more changes. Between civilians learning how to counter riot tactics (which a bunch of people at the riot were doing by the way) and law enforcement being restricted on what they can and can't do, things can look very violent.

You can't expect a single deputy to walk up to an angry crowd of people and ask them nicely to put their hands behind their back so they can be arrested. If shouting at them while armed doesn't work, the next step is to use force. It happens all the time in real life protests. Beanbag shotguns and batons are most commonly used in real life, especially when protesters are wearing gas masks. If people followed orders, none of this would have happened. But there was the IC decision to break the law, so the IC decision was made to break up the protest. IC consequences for IC actions. As it should be.

Covering identifying features is an unfortunate necessity for riot police in modern day USA. Cops frequently get doxed. These cops can fall victim to a lot worse than a beanbag shot or a few swings of a baton. Their families can get attacked. There's been cases where cop's kids get jumped in high schools. Their homes can get vandalized. If you translate that to GTA World, it's a lot worse. We already had an attempted kidnapping on a deputy because of the protests. There has also been a lot of IC hostility and a lack of trust. Again, IC consequences because of IC actions.

To cover the jail topic, jails and prisons are two different things in the US. To oversimplify, prisons only hold people that have actually been convicted of crime in court. Jails hold people pending trial. Many criminals in the US abuse this system to spend their time in jail rather than in a prison. That would require it's own post to explain. In California, which we are basing the jail system on, jails also house overflow from prisons due to the prisons being overcrowded. A lack of funding, even before the whole defund the police movement, makes jails bad places to be. I could go into a lot more detail but in summary, it's not at all unrealistic for a first time offender in for a minor charge to come across gang members and people with a laundry list of violent felonies in jails. 

 

People get treated like animals in jail because often the inmates act like animals. From stabbing and beating jail staff to even throwing human waste, it's an extreme environment to work in. Most jail staff have no idea who someone is unless they look them up. Sure, a 19 year old woman might seem harmless but there's been cases where younger women have jumped deputies and used weapons to try to kill them in jail. If you put your hand on a stove and burn your hand, you're not gonna do it again. It's the same with dealing with inmates in jail. If you get attacked, you're not gonna be friendly to inmates the next shift. Anyone who actually RPs in the jail for longer than a few days can tell you how violent it can get. Deputies treating inmates like animals is an IC reaction to what goes on IC.

 

As for the behavior of individual deputies, there is both IC and OOC avenues to report them. It's not my place to give you guidance on how exactly it can be reported IC despite the lack of identifying features on deputies. Some people have figured that out already though. As for OOC, everyone in SD leadership is open to OOC complaints about OOC issues. The only thing that I ask is that you do your research first to ensure what was done is actually unrealistic or RP below the high standards we hold our faction members to. 

[Koko]

As someone who was in the front row at both protests: take what happened there IC and take IC action if you want to. That's really it.

 

Arguing the OOC aspects of completely IC decisions is really counterproductive to the RP that sparked from it, which has very closely mirrored the divided stances on police action IRL.

 

I'm not here to tell you about the specifics of the law you could pursue, but a hint includes your character informing themselves on their constitutional rights and (in)forming their opinion on whether what happened or not was appropriately handled considering the reality of law enforcement tactics and the legality we play in.

 

Going down the OOC rabbit hole just creates unnecessary OOC frustration. The IC route creates RP.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Koko

[Vash Baldeus]

21 minutes ago, Keane said:

Covering identifying features is an unfortunate necessity for riot police in modern day USA. Cops frequently get doxed. These cops can fall victim to a lot worse than a beanbag shot or a few swings of a baton. Their families can get attacked. There's been cases where cop's kids get jumped in high schools. Their homes can get vandalized. If you translate that to GTA World, it's a lot worse. We already had an attempted kidnapping on a deputy because of the protests. There has also been a lot of IC hostility and a lack of trust. Again, IC consequences because of IC actions.

So you are going to tell me that what multiple people claim happened IC where they were manhandled, cuffed, tossed in a van with 0 light, shouted at "I'll crush your skull if you won't stop talking" by a deputy, lining people like its a firing squad and leaving them in the desert to walk home is proper protocol for a peace officer?

 

I do not think so, that's police brutality, and lets be honest, more than just one person claims that. I do not believe those people who claim what they've said is true IC, but lets be honest, this is not the first incident I hear where SD treats civilians as if they're the enemy. Moreover SD is yet to publicly come up with an IC statement, since when people start raising accusations you'd actually want to clear things up, instead of letting misinformation spread.

 

Prime example? A few months back, around October/November, my friend IC who lived at the time in a Trailer in the county, catches a THIEF attempting to break into his property. My friend who posses PF, CCW & GC aims the gun at thief, dials 911. SD arrive, they detain my friend & mistreat him moreover threaten him with a Beating while they let the thief go as if the thief done nothing wrong when there was clear signs of tempering with the trailer lock.

 

You can not say it's not corrupt to do what has happened. If you as admins do not enforce rules you placed in play that a member breaks the server rules especially Corruption Rule that are OOC and is not handled? That's bad, there is a reason why members are told about those corruption rules. Mistreating civilians, threatening civilians, forcing injury on civilians is worse than looking the other way when it's Weed way worse.

 

The fact that the entire faction is yet to come out with a proper statement IC to clear things up is the reason there's a whole movement to defund SASD and more.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Vash Baldeus

[arkan]

you know that during the summer riots the LAPD and LASD were actively shooting beanbags or pepper rounds into the horde of rioters since like day one right? not to mention they even called ICE to help them handle some rioters as well. 

[BINGBONGBALONEY]

Filter by California - any more mentions of this being horrible portrayal at this point is just ignorance.

 

https://2020policebrutality.netlify.app/

[6ixth]

It's really weird to me that there's been so much apparent corruption on the side of SD. I was in the protective line SD had between the road and the private G6 property as Allie Fox, and I was the first person to detain someone as well for repeatedly crossing the line. I seriously didn't witness anything corrupt, or unrealistic. I am aware there was a few Deputy's who did dip some people in a river, but they RP corrupt characters and it isn't new for them to have done so.

 

Other than that though, the overall event was pretty realistic? I sure as hell had fun, same as my OOC friends on the other side. I'm hoping 1.1 comes soon and we can have smoke grenades that are roleplayed as tear gas synced, it'll be good.

Edited January 31, 2021 by 6ixth