feeling totally out of place as an average joe/criminal character

[Boyd Parker]

If you're looking for a good location to roleplay an average joe or common criminal, you should check out SAPA.  The Longshoremen (and women) who work on the Labor side are primarily average joes and common criminals.  They're blue collar workers, doing what they gotta do on the side to get by.  Some have a second job, some rob people, and some just steal.  But, while they're at The Port, they get along because they want their paycheck.  There's also a Union which comes with extra benefits for the employees, like 15% discounts a dozen+ businesses around Los Santos.  The hiring process is simple and the roleplay is interesting.  People who demonstrate good roleplay get opportunities to move up to higher positions, especially if they're trying to make The Port into a career.  There's even a bar approved and currently being mapped that will be an after-hours hangout for Longshoremen when they're off duty.  There's usually 14-20 people at each shift, so there's plenty of people to meet and roleplay with.

 

My character was an average joe, homeless, alcoholic in the early days who did what he had to do to get by.  I had no real plan or direction for him at the time, I just let the roleplay take me where it would.  I ended up getting recruited to The Port, and now a huge part of my character's story is devoted to SAPA.  It went from a job he wasn't even sure he'd show up for to a redemption arc that turned his life around entirely.  But, there were plenty of opportunities for it to go the other way.

[damnbrah]

10 hours ago, Jeroen said:

It wasn't a compliment.

 

Instead of spewing brain drain vitriol at "mallrats" and eventually get the thread locked by an admin for being too toxic, we should be asking questions such as these.

• Why are getting "regular Joe" places less visitors?
• Why aren't there a lot of "regular Joe" places that open often?
• What kind of problems do the owners of the "regular Joe" places encounter?
• Why do people not want to work for these "regular Joe" places?

1. cause they ain't nightclubs
2. cause nightclubs are better
3. they're not a nightclub
4. cause it's not a nightclub

[Perstephone]

Even small bars have to pay for security now, unless they are faction run and can have goons on standby. I used to open my bar daily and it became nothing but trolls and people looking to antagonise and start fights. The reasons why nightclubs are more popular, is they can afford to pay security.

 

You run an "average joe" place, you're charging less, and dealing with more dickheads. And tbh, money aside. Nobody wants to deal with it. Constant antagonisation. Minor characters who get violent and angry when not served alcohol.  If you're a female char, it's a constant barage of either disparaging comments about being a women or straight up sexual harrasment every opening. 

 

If you report anyone for trolling they just say, "My char is a smart ass." If your report is even answered. It's not an enjoyable roleplay experience. So nobody does it. I have been running dive bars for three years on this server and it has never been as bad as it is now, I have zero motivation for it because the acceptable roleplay quality on the server has slipped SO far. It's really shitty, because I have always enjoyed it, the average people, the lower rank average guy sort of criminals. I always found the RP really interesting and often got to play the bartender/therapist role. But now, every opening is a brawl which leads to a shooting. Nobody wants to deal with that mess. Small operations aren't safe IC so they're not fun OOC. 

 

I would love to say there is a fix for it, but the current message from the administration team is pretty clear when you look at how lax the punishments are now. I had the conversation previously with a group of people, things that used to get you a permaban are now a 10 minute ajail. The server message is quantity of roleplayers over quality of roleplayers. So this is how it is now. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Perstephone

[AlphaBatal]

11 hours ago, Anther said:

I gave a fac startup a shot about a year ago on here, the niche was coke, we cut it and sold it as pure. Real grimey scum shit. Anyways, there's not a single grimey hole in the wall type party place or anything, had to sell coke at the emo club WHICH ENDED UP BEING A FED STING. 🤗 Gotta love it.

glad to be of service 🤝

[mj2002]

10 hours ago, Jeroen said:

It wasn't a compliment.

 

Instead of spewing brain drain vitriol at "mallrats" and eventually get the thread locked by an admin for being too toxic, we should be asking questions such as these.

• Why are getting "regular Joe" places less visitors?
• Why aren't there a lot of "regular Joe" places that open often?
• What kind of problems do the owners of the "regular Joe" places encounter?
• Why do people not want to work for these "regular Joe" places?

 

I think more focus on these questions will lead to a possibility for improvement.

 

 

Why are getting "regular Joe" places less visitors?

 

Is this actually true? We've had niche places discussed here, but are regular Joe places really getting less visitors? Do we have examples of this, or perhaps those with experiences who can elaborate? From my own experience I can tell that most businesses North of the city could be considered 'regular Joe' places, and I haven't noticed problems with these businesses attracting regular Joe customers. Again, not including niche businesses. If you open up a bar, you'll have customers. Perhaps not as many as in the city, but you'll have regular Joe customers regardless.

 

Why aren't there a lot of "regular Joe" places that open often?

 

I'm not entirely sure if this is really accurate either, when you compare it to businesses that aim for richer/eccentric/niche businesses, or things like strip clubs or normal clubs where we know that customers will show up regardless. But overall, I agree, there aren't enough. As I stated before, I blame this squarely on the community at large not willing to invest their time into helping the already existing businesses to open up. However, this is obviously not the only reason. Opening a business requires a lot of work, platinum donator status, a group of people to help keep it alive, and then hope you can make it work financially as well as keep the motivation alive for those involved. If anyone has an easy solution here, please don't hold back. 

 

What kind of problems do the owners of the "regular Joe" places encounter?

 

I think we can split these problems into a few categories;

1. OOC problems before being able to open up
2. OOC problems to keep a business running after it has opened
3. IC problems encountered after the business has opened

 

OOC problems before being able to open up

• Property Management waiting times, applications, permissions, character backgrounds, etc. I have some suggestions for solutions which I'll post in the suggestion forums, but this will always remain a barrier. Most of this is a necessary evil though. Property Management isn't here to make everyone's lives harder just because it is fun for them.
• Financing, though Property Management can help out here. Can be an obstacle for larger projects, but smaller 'average Joe' projects are usually not too expensive.
• Financing for mapping, and the mapping itself. Similar to above, but I'm not too sure how eager PM is to help out here as well. 
• Finding other players to help out with the concept. Motivation is an issue here. This is something that the community can help out with, without waiting for developers, staff, or management to take some sort of action.
• Barrier of entry. Running an illegal faction doesn't require a player to have an active platinum donator status. We can call it a subscription at this stage, because that's what it really is. Participating in an 'official' legal faction doesn't require this either. But if you want to run a successful business, this is basically a requirement. /cadloc helps a little bit, but it is nowhere near as effective as /bad.

OOC problems to keep a business running after it has opened

• Lack of people that are interested in investing time into the concept. Same as the motivation issue above. Same solution, people need to step up. Being part of a group of players (for example, a faction) can definitely help with this process. Faction run businesses, from what I have seen, generally survive a little longer if the faction itself shows healthy activity.
• Finances. In my experience it is very difficult to make a loss as a business, unless it is really staff intensive and has very little income. You could consider this an IC issue, but with the economy only being a rough simulation, this would rather be an OOC issue. Some solutions, apply for LFM funding, but this is not the easiest to achieve and may not be granted if the business concept is not unique.
• Lack of motivation due to poor portrayal from customers. We often hear the complaints about customers making it difficult for roleplayers to keep their business going. When generic group 5957473 comes in to demand protection money, this can be demotivating for the players putting effort into the concept/business. You can consider this to be an IC issue as well, but it still has OOC effects. Beyond reporting the involved players, there's not much that can be done about this. If you are demotivated, then there's little the community can do to reverse that.

IC problems encountered after the business has opened

 

• Other people may have to jump in here as well, with their own experiences of running 'average Joe' style businesses.
• Finances, this can generally be addressed by engaging other characters who have means to help out. Business not doing so well? You could get a loan. Might lead to some issues, but it generates roleplay regardless.
• Staff, basically the same as the OOC issue, but you can view it as an IC issue as well. This is especially troublesome if you are running a niche business concept.

 

Why do people not want to work for these "regular Joe" places?

• Its not as exciting as other forms of roleplay. You're not pressing other gang members, you're not locking up criminals, you're not seducing chicks, you're not showing off your sports cars, you're not making bank. Instead, you're providing a service, which in real life is something people do because they have to, not because they want to. Therefor, these types of character jobs have a bad image to begin with. When it comes down to it, the experiences will be mixed at best. This roleplay, if approached in an average way, is often not super exciting. People join and invest time into GTAW for fun, so this is only logical.
• Players aren't aware of most of these businesses, as businesses are poorly represented both IC and OOCly. Factions and groups have OOC threads where they can showcase their activities. These are prominent places that other players often look at. This gives visibility that businesses cannot enjoy. Businesses can make advertisements in game, in the advertisement section, and in the business section. However, a quick look shows that these aren't visited or posted in nearly as much. Solution? Elevate businesses to the same level as factions and/or unofficial groups, giving them attention from a dedicated staff team that can speak on their behalf (where Property Management might not be able to) but also check in on quality issues pro-actively.
• The monetary rewards are mediocre with the exception of a few specific businesses and positions. Players are motivated by money, that's just how it is. $4000/hour isn't a lot when you're just coming down from $200.000 for the first 40 hours. I have no easy solution for this problem, because there are many variations and different situations where some solutions won't apply or are difficult to implement.
• The above goes for all types of businesses, except a handful which don't have problems staying open. Think clubs, strip clubs, car dealerships, etc. They don't really need the help. The additional challenge for 'regular Joe' businesses comes with the lack of specialty that you can enjoy with niche or upper class businesses. Its not as exciting, and it reminds people of actual IRL work.
• It can be argued that, depending on the location and the nature of the business, these 'regular Joe' businesses attract more trouble from low quality/poor portrayal roleplayers. This is demotivating, and there was already a challenge for motivation to begin the business in the first place. I don't have an easy solution for this. The players can be reported, but we all know that the next group of generic characters will be waiting the next day to create more problems. This is an issue that goes beyond this problem and is experienced server-wide.

 

 

Not a lot of solutions, I'm afraid.

[Straw]

2 hours ago, Perstephone said:

Even small bars have to pay for security now, unless they are faction run and can have goons on standby. I used to open my bar daily and it became nothing but trolls and people looking to antagonise and start fights. The reasons why nightclubs are more popular, is they can afford to pay security.

 

You run an "average joe" place, you're charging less, and dealing with more dickheads. And tbh, money aside. Nobody wants to deal with it. Constant antagonisation. Minor characters who get violent and angry when not served alcohol.  If you're a female char, it's a constant barage of either disparaging comments about being a women or straight up sexual harrasment every opening. 

 

If you report anyone for trolling they just say, "My char is a smart ass." If your report is even answered. It's not an enjoyable roleplay experience. So nobody does it. I have been running dive bars for three years on this server and it has never been as bad as it is now, I have zero motivation for it because the acceptable roleplay quality on the server has slipped SO far. It's really shitty, because I have always enjoyed it, the average people, the lower rank average guy sort of criminals. I always found the RP really interesting and often got to play the bartender/therapist role. But now, every opening is a brawl which leads to a shooting. Nobody wants to deal with that mess. Small operations aren't safe IC so they're not fun OOC. 

 

I would love to say there is a fix for it, but the current message from the administration team is pretty clear when you look at how lax the punishments are now. I had the conversation previously with a group of people, things that used to get you a permaban are now a 10 minute ajail. The server message is quantity of roleplayers over quality of roleplayers. So this is how it is now. 

Its America however son! If you can't afford security just buy a shotgun and have it on standby under the counter, sometimes you gotta take matters into your own hands.

[Wolfhound]

33 minutes ago, Straw said:

Its America however son! If you can't afford security just buy a shotgun and have it on standby under the counter, sometimes you gotta take matters into your own hands.

 

Then your chances of getting shot are increased because you had the audacity to point a gun at a "known gang member."

[Martyn]

 

 

/thread

[PrinceCane]

4 hours ago, Perstephone said:

Even small bars have to pay for security now, unless they are faction run and can have goons on standby. I used to open my bar daily and it became nothing but trolls and people looking to antagonise and start fights. The reasons why nightclubs are more popular, is they can afford to pay security.

 

You run an "average joe" place, you're charging less, and dealing with more dickheads. And tbh, money aside. Nobody wants to deal with it. Constant antagonisation. Minor characters who get violent and angry when not served alcohol.  If you're a female char, it's a constant barage of either disparaging comments about being a women or straight up sexual harrasment every opening. 

 

If you report anyone for trolling they just say, "My char is a smart ass." If your report is even answered. It's not an enjoyable roleplay experience. So nobody does it. I have been running dive bars for three years on this server and it has never been as bad as it is now, I have zero motivation for it because the acceptable roleplay quality on the server has slipped SO far. It's really shitty, because I have always enjoyed it, the average people, the lower rank average guy sort of criminals. I always found the RP really interesting and often got to play the bartender/therapist role. But now, every opening is a brawl which leads to a shooting. Nobody wants to deal with that mess. Small operations aren't safe IC so they're not fun OOC. 

 

I would love to say there is a fix for it, but the current message from the administration team is pretty clear when you look at how lax the punishments are now. I had the conversation previously with a group of people, things that used to get you a permaban are now a 10 minute ajail. The server message is quantity of roleplayers over quality of roleplayers. So this is how it is now. 

Its sadly true now a days the things that can get you banned/permabanned is just a 10 min ajail then they’ll repeat the procedure again

 

You want to take it to forums? Tell me how the forum report is after 2-3 months of waiting!

[Coolwhip]

11 hours ago, Perstephone said:

Even small bars have to pay for security now, unless they are faction run and can have goons on standby. I used to open my bar daily and it became nothing but trolls and people looking to antagonise and start fights. The reasons why nightclubs are more popular, is they can afford to pay security.

 

You run an "average joe" place, you're charging less, and dealing with more dickheads. And tbh, money aside. Nobody wants to deal with it. Constant antagonisation. Minor characters who get violent and angry when not served alcohol.  If you're a female char, it's a constant barage of either disparaging comments about being a women or straight up sexual harrasment every opening. 

 

If you report anyone for trolling they just say, "My char is a smart ass." If your report is even answered. It's not an enjoyable roleplay experience. So nobody does it. I have been running dive bars for three years on this server and it has never been as bad as it is now, I have zero motivation for it because the acceptable roleplay quality on the server has slipped SO far. It's really shitty, because I have always enjoyed it, the average people, the lower rank average guy sort of criminals. I always found the RP really interesting and often got to play the bartender/therapist role. But now, every opening is a brawl which leads to a shooting. Nobody wants to deal with that mess. Small operations aren't safe IC so they're not fun OOC. 

Pretty much a tl;dr of the entire issue ☝️