Punishments should reflect the rules broken and damage inflicted on players.

[Cartoonhead]

10 minutes ago, Vash Baldeus said:

I'd Doubt people who are in their 30's who still play (yes, there are people in that age group) would dick around just to get punished especially when they have limited time even as is.

Was that a personal attack? lol jk. But yeah, Pushing close to 30 and trying to get a cheap ten second thrill to ruin someone elses fun like this is garrysmod just isn't a smart option anymore.

[Olivia]

1 hour ago, Coburn said:

Honestly the admin jails are a joke, I used the ones I got at first to message the admin that jailed me to get feedback, but after that it's just walking in circles while watching netflix.

 

Replace ajails with bans.

 

To return on topic, sentences should reflect on how the rulebreaker has behaved during and after the rulebreak. If they show genuine remorse and have a clean record, short ban (let's say a few days to a week). But if they keep lying, then just throw the book at them and ban them for a month+

 

Would you say that you learned from the experience? If you got feedback from the admin during your in game jail time, learned from that feedback, and haven't offended again, I would argue that the time was worth it.

 

This next bit of commentary is for the entire issue as a whole, not just Coburn. I think that staff have a delicate balancing act to do. Too heavy handed with punishment and you're going to ban people that make genuine mistakes and are willing to learn. Too light handed and you're going to let your player base get dunked on. They should have some clear escalation guidelines based on the egregiousness of the situation, but I'm willing to bet they do. Admins taking action isn't just to punish, but to correct behavior. Maybe the punishment isn't always enough, but if it corrects the behavior and the offender learns, that's a win in my book.

 

The example given by OP almost seems to be a one off situation; the player has no previous history but still received a FINAL warning with a risk of pemaban looming if he offends again. That's pretty damn serious. Was it harsh enough? Ask 10 admins, you'll probably get an even split with 10 different sets of opinions. Nevertheless, I still feel terrible for that player. The other examples that have been posted I kinda just shrug at because we don't have the full context. Do they have a history of offending behavior? How did the conversation go with the admin & player? Are they remorseful? Did they tell the truth? Does the admin reasonably think they will learn from a warning or ajail? I've seen people get banned and thought "wow that seems harsh," but I also have to remind myself, "I don't know the full story."

 

I don't necessarily think that admin jail is a bad thing. It's a clear message to the person that what they're doing isn't acceptable as they literally can't play on the server. It also sends a clear message that the administrative staff are watching and will react to reports. If they want to watch Netflix, blow it off and offend again, they're probably going to get a ban. Remember that it's not just about punishment, but correcting behavior.

 

Be careful what you wish for: it may be you that makes a genuine mistake and faces a harsh ban! 😬

Edited June 21, 2022 by oliviarav3n

[vbxa]

Excellent suggestion, this is really needed or the roleplay quality will plummet. We shouldn't have to tolerate terrible/non-existent roleplay.

[Lomadias]

25 minutes ago, oliviarav3n said:

This next bit of commentary is for the entire issue as a whole, not just Coburn. I think that staff have a delicate balancing act to do. Too heavy handed with punishment and you're going to ban people that make genuine mistakes and are willing to learn. Too light handed and you're going to let your player base get dunked on. They should have some clear escalation guidelines based on the egregiousness of the situation, but I'm willing to bet they do. Admins taking action isn't just to punish, but to correct behavior. Maybe the punishment isn't always enough, but if it corrects the behavior and the offender learns, that's a win in my book.

 

The example given by OP almost seems to be a one off situation; the player has no previous history but still received a FINAL warning with a risk of pemaban looming if he offends again. That's pretty damn serious. Was it harsh enough? Ask 10 admins, you'll probably get an even split with 10 different sets of opinions. Nevertheless, I still feel terrible for that player. The other examples that have been posted I kinda just shrug at because we don't have the full context. Do they have a history of offending behavior? How did the conversation go with the admin & player? Are they remorseful? Did they tell the truth? Does the admin reasonably think they will learn from a warning or ajail? I've seen people get banned and thought "wow that seems harsh," but I also have to remind myself, "I don't know the full story."

 

This is basically how I feel.

 

I have much less of a tolerance now for poor roleplay, and you start to get a sense from a player's responses if they're serious or not. Final warnings are a valuable tool and a warning with one is quite a punishment. Instead of a temp ban of 3 days, they're given a strict direction of "correct your behaviour or face a yeetus deletus". I use final warnings all the time and I feel they're just as significant as a 3 day temp ban. It's not always the case, but often is. I'd rather give a warning and a "final warning" notice than AJail for 60 minutes.

 

I prefer temp bans to admin jails personally, I'm not an admin jail fan, I don't think it's sufficient punishment.

 

 

[Triple Seven]

1 minute ago, Lomadias said:

 

This is basically how I feel.

 

I have much less of a tolerance now for poor roleplay, and you start to get a sense from a player's responses if they're serious or not. Final warnings are a valuable tool and a warning with one is quite a punishment. Instead of a temp ban of 3 days, they're given a strict direction of "correct your behaviour or face a yeetus deletus". I use final warnings all the time and I feel they're just as significant as a 3 day temp ban. It's not always the case, but often is. I'd rather give a warning and a "final warning" notice than AJail for 60 minutes.

 

I prefer temp bans to admin jails personally, I'm not an admin jail fan, I don't think it's sufficient punishment.

 

Think it's more serious to ban them for 3 days and put them on a final warning in that case. Show it's actually serious and not an empty threat, in which case they'll feel invited to see if 1: it's noticed, 2: it's actually executed.

[Junx]

1 minute ago, Lomadias said:

 

This is basically how I feel.

 

I have much less of a tolerance now for poor roleplay, and you start to get a sense from a player's responses if they're serious or not. Final warnings are a valuable tool and a warning with one is quite a punishment. Instead of a temp ban of 3 days, they're given a strict direction of "correct your behaviour or face a yeetus deletus". I use final warnings all the time and I feel they're just as significant as a 3 day temp ban. It's not always the case, but often is. I'd rather give a warning and a "final warning" notice than AJail for 60 minutes.

 

I prefer temp bans to admin jails personally, I'm not an admin jail fan, I don't think it's sufficient punishment.

 

 

 

admin jail is a useless feature, see vid below for a prime example

 

https://streamable.com/m477ua

[Jura]

Rules and the punishments that follow have long been a hard balancing act. It was a ball ache back in samp and probably before that, and it will continue to be until management are willing to change it, and accept change.

 

management need to talk to community members to get a general idea of what people believe is suitable rather than sit on discord talking behind a hidden chat/voice chat.

 

for the OP example, personally I would’ve dealt a harsher punishment as what they done doesn’t just fall under common courtesy, they removed an entire apartment from a complex which wouldn’t of been possible, so there’s an element of PG involved.

 

Is wuhtah at fault, no, she’s following what she’s been taught, which is clearly outdated.

[Moonsong]

4 minutes ago, Lomadias said:

 

This is basically how I feel.

 

I have much less of a tolerance now for poor roleplay, and you start to get a sense from a player's responses if they're serious or not. Final warnings are a valuable tool and a warning with one is quite a punishment. Instead of a temp ban of 3 days, they're given a strict direction of "correct your behaviour or face a yeetus deletus". I use final warnings all the time and I feel they're just as significant as a 3 day temp ban. It's not always the case, but often is. I'd rather give a warning and a "final warning" notice than AJail for 60 minutes.

 

I prefer temp bans to admin jails personally, I'm not an admin jail fan, I don't think it's sufficient punishment.

 

 

 

But more often than not, just a warning isn't justifiable for what they may have inflicted on the reporting party. This is largely why a lot of damaging behavior goes unreported, because the reporting party feels it just isn't worth the effort because they know it'll more than likely end up with just a warning.

 

It doesn't really take the disruptive behavior the reporting party had to deal with into account, how it negatively effected their experience. I'm not talking about the more 50/50 cases here but the clear cut cases of malicious behavior.

 

Sometimes yeah, it's difficult to judge what a players actual intent is and that's what warnings are for imho. Not for those who are blatantly and maliciously taking the piss. The example in my OP isn't the only example I've seen of this sort of malicious behavior being met with woefully inadequate punishments.

[RedRover]

4 hours ago, Wuhtah said:

It was their first offense with mapping, previous time was nothing to do with it.

 

First of all, this is not a reflection on you. You've been doing an OUTSTANDING job across multiple areas for the server. I suppose my concern with rule enforcement boils down to this quoted sentence right here. Please clarify if I have misunderstood or not. It seems you (Admin team) have soft guidelines and enforce on a categorical basis. You implied that this was their first offense with mapping but the previous offense had nothing to do with mapping, hence its only a warning as a first offense "with mapping". Is this correct?

 

The issue therein lies with the categorical punishments. An offense should be an offense, regardless of what category the offense falls. They broke rule 1 and rule 2 once, but its their first offense in rule 3 so its just a warning. People shouldn't get multiple chances across multiple areas of rules. A rule break is a rule break. If they break one rule, they should be instructed to go read the rules again. If multiple rule breaks ensue after that? That's their fault and they reap what they sow. Everyone here can read, so they should be able to brush up on the rules. Players choosing to remain ignorant in other areas of the rules doesn't fall on the staff team. Players agree to abide by ALL the rules. If they had previous rule breaks, they shouldn't be allowed "first offense" leniency across every rule section, just because they hadn't broken that specific rule before.

 

This is supposed to be a heavy role play server. I don't know when we changed to a pure teaching server, but the quality has gone down since 2019 because of it. I'm not saying people can't learn or that we shouldn't teach them, but rules exist for a reason. Continued breaking of rules with lenient warnings doesn't teach anyone anything. People deserve the chance to learn if the intent is to be here to and enjoy themselves and others. That's why admin discretion exists. However, if the intent is malicious and the actions done intentionally to disrupt others? Those guidelines should go out the window and harsher punishments be handed down with management backing you every step of the way. I think the server has lost its backbone in some areas and improved in others, but the overall consensus is that no one really cares about getting punished at the moment because they know its either a temporary ajail, 1 day ban or they'll get to appeal in 2 months after being "permabanned". This doesn't fall on you as you're only doing what you've been instructed and guided to do.

 

This falls on management. They need to be more strict and not be afraid to lose a few players from the fallout of doing so. I was a community manager for a first-person shooter game for 10 years. Being strict only results in losing the players who refuse to follow the rules. The majority of players who are here to actually enjoy themselves don't leave. You're not going to lose half the community because rules are more strictly enforced. People will follow the rules. They've just been given far too much leeway. I'm sure you can agree our reports section should not have that many reports. Take that as you will. I say it with respect, we have grown far too lenient and standards have suffered because of it.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Brofessor

[Frezemis]

In regards to the mapping report I've discussed it with Wuhtah and we've come to an agreement on that one. Wuhtah did not do anything wrong as it's the players first offense in that specific area and it was not a leinecy concern it's more of a concern of it not being specific in the rules. The player showed malicious intent and has been on the server long enough to understand that after doing further digging into it. Wuhtah's been doing a fantastic job and she does stick her neck out a lot especially on a public stance on a majority of these forum topics.

 

I haven't read all the pages here aside from a couple but from my understanding the community is asking for stricter punishments or some sort of punishment scale. I will bring this up to the management level and we will discuss internally about this topic. There is not much else I can add without it being set in stone but I will let this topic continue as long as it stays on topic. We portray a serious roleplay server and I intend of keeping up the standards of that because if we don't keep up that standard it will just downfall and leave a bad taste in a lot of our veteran members that were adjusted to serious roleplay.