Moonsong

Some of the responses here are disappointing, yet not completely unexpected. It's funny how the "It's a game" argument is only an acceptable one to use whenever someone tries to argue against the 'fear' meta. I'm not saying you should be able to run in every situation but where an opportunity presents itself (ie they leave you room, a path to somewhere you can run, making the robbery setup super obvious etc) you SHOULD be able to without fear of loosing your character (except where something is obviously stupid), same goes for defending yourself. IRL most of the time, robbers simply aren't going to risk a murder charge for shooting someone who runs in fear of their lives or to protect their valuables. The risk of being caught, jailed and even the death penalty is just too high. In game, there's very little risk of being caught. They know police are unlikely to investigate random bodies in the road/street because it's such a common occurrence they just don't have the time or resources to investigate and it's usually not worth the effort for them vs the jail time the killer may eventually get and simply name change out of anyway after days or weeks of investigation. The real question we should be asking is; if it's unrealistic for victims to run from robbers in fear why is it okay for robbers to shoot victims for said reasons for a couple hundred bucks and maybe a phone considering what their characters would realistically be risking? Because they know it's unlikely the killing will be followed up on due to OOC knowledge. There's basically LESS risk killing someone who runs than letting them be and that to me, is assfuck backwards. Especially when you expect the victim to take a CK too whilst expecting 'realistic', quality roleplay. That's not a healthy mentality and hints at much wider problems.

Jus' saying, it's not shorthand if it's exactly the same length 🤣

At this point, warnings and ajails shorter than 30 minutes honestly have to go. It's disrespectful to players who have had whole scenes (sometimes lasting hours, or spanning days/weeks) ruined by someone who gets away with nothing more than a warning by putting on a pouted lip and bullshitting their way through an apology with "I thought the rule meant I could do it like this but not like that" and other variations thereof. I've seen players with previous history, even with ajails on record getting away with warnings. Let me just be clear, WARNINGS ARE POINTLESS. It's important to point out that IT IS NOT the fault of the admin team, their hands are tied in most cases. Instead it's the fault of the flawed guidelines they have to follow and sometimes the fear of reprisals may be resulting in admins being more lenient than they'd like to be. Just to make sure they're on the right side of staff management when punishments inevitably move to staff reports. Which can be incredibly stressful & daunting. especially when the players involved are kicking up a shit storm in the community. With staff reports in mind, it's better for them (and far less stressful) to be TOO lenient than it is for them to be too harsh. But sadly this approach coupled with the "teaching server" mantra, leads to what we have now. Administrators who are unable (or too afraid) to punish players effectively due to being tied to guidelines intended for a community that was growing and needed to retain players. GTAW is supposed to be a HEAVY roleplay environment, so treat it as such.

@Wuhtah For being so nice she'd shake hands with Justin Trudeau. @Adv is still noob

This is exactly what people were doing before the rule was CLARIFIED because they thought it was a 200iq move that nobody would ever catch on to, but it became so rampant and stupid looking that it ended up needing to be clarified and now we're here with droves of players blindly clamoring for pre bf400 era leniency. It shouldn't, but it still surprises me that people can't seem to understand this sequence of events.

Exactly what myself and others have been saying would happen but anyone on the opposing side is just like "No it'll be fine, not using cars is just stupid. Do I gotta walk everywhere?". Let's not kid ourselves, everyone knows this would be seen as a carte blanche to go apeshit with vehicle robberies and end up with exactly this. It kind of paints a picture when you get laughed at and dogpiled for merely suggesting an alternative, less risky approach to petty mugging, like pickpocketing. It's very, very worrying to me.

Having issues on and off all day, afaik Discord are aware of it. Though the problems seem fairly confined to the desktop app, so try it using your phone if issues reappear, was able to send and receive messages fine via there. Seems ok for now.

Or players push and abuse things to the point of yet another restriction being added for some temporary respite, which of course everyone then suddenly has an opinion about despite doing absolutely nothing to prevent the restriction from happening in the first place, in most cases the opposite. Just as long as folk get their easy guns & money they're happy to ignore obvious problems until suddenly it effects them. Always better to have a discussion than not have one until it's too late.

Man, security guards being armed is dumb as fuck but every civilian should still hire them if they don't want to get robbed stepping outside for fresh air, so we can take their guards gun too.

This is something I'd love to see though I suspect many would balk at the thought of having to apply to rob jewellery stores and such. Hell maybe even have some sort of opt-in list where willing businesses can opt in to allow their premises to be hit, getting extra benefits in-exchange, Maybe larger activity bonuses, discounted rates for buying stock, that sort of thing. That way, both parties actually benefit rather than just one side being alienated.

Yeah, it gets really tiring. Most are having a fairly civil discussion but there's always a few who try to derail discussions with ooc toxicity like in the examples you gave. It's funny too, that the argument of "You run around with 100k and expect not to be robbed etc etc" is thrown at me along with the general stereotype civilians get brushed with, yet none of my characters have more thank 160k in the bank & no more than 350k in assets. Hell I don't carry more than a throwaway phone around with me, but does that stop you from being targeted for pf guns? Nope. I don't think stopping muggings for guns would really work though as it doesn't make sense not to take it for your own safety, since they could shoot you the second you turn your back once the robbery is done. The lack of gun supply is only part of the problem though, even IF you address the gun supply issues you're only making the robbery problem worse if you don't address the lack of opportunities for your average criminal to make money without needing a ton of money & assets in the first place. But given some of the toxicity in this thread at the mere suggestion of trying to roleplay something out of their comfort zone, I have to question how many if any would be willing to seek out these schemes for just a little more effort vs how many would prefer milking the civilian population dry until management is forced to ban petty muggings all together?

It's crazy how videos of robberies happening irl keep being thrown around as an argument in favor of unrestricted robberies. Maybe if civilians experienced something other than 4 guns to the face, all manner of insults & of course the obligatory pistol whip despite doing nothing but complying every so often, maybe half of the community would't be complaining about dogshit robberies? Whilst the other half refuse to see any problems. Maybe the criminal community would have a better reputation if they offered solutions instead of the usual "Keep it IC", "Hire security", "IC Issue" & "Allow car robberies it makes sense, lul" tropes without even attempting to understand why civilian roleplayers are fed up.

Not limiting the area and not having limits on muggings also seriously harms the immersion for those on the receiving end. Whilst we can all agree the restrictions might seem harsh, they are necessary because many seem to think being able to rob anything with a pulse is the b-all and end-all and that the server will die without being able to do so. It WOULD die if you could rob without restrictions. There needs to be other, more profitable avenues of roleplay if you want to discourage criminal roleplayers away from robbing otherwise limiting it to just factions won't solve the problem, though it should on paper, in practice I don't think it would.

Honestly I wouldn't even have given Plug's response the courtesy of a reply, as it highlights EVERYTHING that's wrong with the community, it's general mentality towards civilian roleplayers and shows just how many are like-minded. To be honest, it's worrying but not surprising. Clear proof that it's a deeply rooted problem if ever there was any.

To be fair these are all actually reasonable suggestions and pretty reasonable arguments, I'm not trolling at all though I just don't see how it's unreasonable for a street criminal who's cash strapped to go pickpocketing. That's just my opinion and we'll have to agree to disagree I guess. As for your other arguments, I'll agree that these are all issues and victims of IFM red tape. There needs to be a wider variety of schemes to support criminal roleplay other than upping guns on everything with a pulse. Make other avenues of roleplay more profitable for criminals & easy enough to get into and you'll see a sharp downtick in armed robberies. They're always gonna be a thing, but right now it's stupidly overdone and just isn't engaging roleplay for victims.