CCW Good Cause Justification

[pateuvasiliu]

2 hours ago, defillbert said:

A lot of American's don't like guns

The americans that don't like guns usually haven't been victims of violence/crime. Their tune would change real quick when they realise that gun control only endangers the citizen while the criminal doesn't give a F about the law.

 

It makes no sense to be anti-gun in Los Santos where 4 teenagers jump out of a car and throw you in the trunk.

[Jeroen]

4 hours ago, Mecovy said:

it is when you have the character 4 years and beyond. 

You're absolutely an edgecase, as most characters we encounter will absolutely not make a reissuance.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Jeroen

[Martyn]

FLD is ridiculous, the good cause will legit have you sit there and wait for something bad to happen to your character so it can be used as a reason to get the license which in itself is already poor by design. You'll have them try to make you believe it was Nervous who created all these ridiculous requirements but I messaged him about half a year ago with a very detailed reasoning as to why the regulations and process surrounding CCW's is madness and he himself told me he has nothing to do with it at all.

 

The good cause is a joke, way too strict for a city with this much crime.

The exam is legit written to fuck you over, it's not educational at all. You're also never told what questions you had wrong, even if you pass it with 18/20 and you could've answered the most important question wrong you'll never be educated on this. You can't improve, you're always left guessing what you did right or wrong and this is inherently counter-productive and dangerous and doesn't make FLD look very friendly. Sometimes I feel (especially with one person in particular) like it's a power trip and they take a lot of pleasure into making things as hard as possible for people.

 

I've seen lawyers, DA's and many other law related roleplayers fail the CCW process repeatedly. The CCW should be more accessible to players and bad roleplay should simply be punished. Stop limiting people's options on a server where having options for your character defines the whole feeling of having freedom to create your own story and narrative for your character. 

[Narco]

5 minutes ago, jromjeksin said:

FLD is run by a bunch of PD cops that want to be admins, especially the Sebastian Boos / Jeroen guy. None of them understand what good cause is nor should it be a requirement to get a CCW ingame considering requiring good cause justification to receive a firearm permit is illegal in the US. They just deny and remove licenses from anyone they see fit for anything they see fit. Should also be worth mentioning that they should not have the authority to remove a license for reasons outside of arrests, suspected ingame criminal activity and or PF abuse violations. These guys will reject a guy who is applying because he has a forum report on him that has not been resolved which shouldn't even be allowed considering they are not admins. The leader of FLD once denied and banned someone for throwing his middle finger up in a portrait photo for his license because he was upset he kept getting rejected. These guys overreach, put people on a list for suspected abuse for absolutely no reason and the leader gets on the forums and posts nonsense responses to people with legitimate concerns.

 

EDIT: Their good cause justification is calling 911 to report someone breaking into your house or shooting at you and referring to the call in your application. 

I mean that's kind of your opinion at the end of the day because firearms license issuing officers especially in California are super liberal / you must be of VERY good character, throwing the middle finger up in a licensing photo is not only childish / immature (realistically speaking of course) but its just not something someone does that's applying for a firearms license. Yes it's the United States, yes we aren't California although we have an unrealistic murder rate which directly comes from firearm related incidents. Realistically our citizen would be fed up / want stricter policies on guns, etc. If anything FLD on here are actually really reasonable, I've only had my CCW denied once and it was for a valuable reason. Have had multiple guard cards / ccw's / pf's on the server as I had genuine cause and my player had a good moral character / wasn't throwing his middle finger up and could control his behavior / attitude which are traits someone that receives a PF/CCW should be able to prove. 

[Spring]

My character having had a CCW for almost 2 years now, all I can say is that the good cause justification must be mostly related to the current employment and/or personal business of the applicant rather than the incidents and bad experiences he/she has gone through recently. The good cause section currently requires the applicant to provide evidences to the deadly and threatening incidents that happened to them. That leaves most lawyers, business owners, even DA's as mentioned above by someone else without CCW unless they were robbed/shot or at least attempted to in the past. The CCW needs to be a precaution to prevent upcoming incidents, rather than a result of an incident.

 

What can be done:

 

Keep the current good cause justification as is, AND in addition to it, require the history of employment from an applicant: See how long they've been employed within their current work, and justify the good cause depending on how dangerous their employment field is. Make sure the duration of the employment is at least a few months and they've actively worked there. Require OOC screenshots of their roleplays if needed. This will also make most players stick to one employment rather than company hopping, so lowkey win and win for both the players and the server. Easiest example is jewelry store owners getting CCW easily in real life, whereas in GTA:W they have to get robbed, mugged, shot, pked etc before they can apply for it.

[Kappaurel]

1 minute ago, Spring said:

even DA's as mentioned above by someone else without CCW unless they were robbed/shot or at least attempted to in the past

 

DA's get LEO CCW (no exam), or it used to be that way, so that's not really possible. 

[MAK0]

11 minutes ago, Narco said:

I mean that's kind of your opinion at the end of the day because firearms license issuing officers especially in California are super liberal

 

Again, like I said to you when you mentioned this earlier (and linked it), there is a recent post where Shanks said this is not California, Los Angeles nor a 100% reflection of either. This argument is null and void.

 

10 minutes ago, Spring said:

Keep the current good cause justification as is, AND in addition to it, require the history of employment from an applicant: See how long they've been employed within their current work, and justify the good cause depending on how dangerous their employment field is. Make sure the duration of the employment is at least a few months and they've actively worked there. Require OOC screenshots of their roleplays if needed. This will also make most players stick to one employment rather than company hopping, so lowkey win and win for both the players and the server. Easiest example is jewelry store owners getting CCW easily in real life, whereas in GTA:W they have to get robbed, mugged, shot, pked etc before they can apply for it.

 

Returning back to my point of this is a GAME, no thanks.

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by MAK0

[Jeroen]

Alright it is time for me to stop responding to this thread, as people are purposefully spreading incorrect facts that good cause is a requirement set by FLD, among other lies.

This is something that Nervous put forward, and which is codified in the SHAFT Act. The only thing that FLD can do is advise on new policies, but it's up to firstly Nervous and secondly SAGOV to actually codify it into policies.

 

This forum thread is not your FLD helpdesk, if you need actual help make your way over to our contacts. We're more than happy to answer any of your questions.

 

9 minutes ago, jromjeksin said:

FLD is run by a bunch of PD cops that want to be admins, especially the Sebastian Boos / Jeroen guy. None of them understand what good cause is nor should it be a requirement to get a CCW ingame considering requiring good cause justification to receive a firearm permit is illegal in the US. They just deny and remove licenses from anyone they see fit for anything they see fit. Should also be worth mentioning that they should not have the authority to remove a license for reasons outside of arrests, suspected ingame criminal activity and or PF abuse violations. These guys will reject a guy who is applying because he has a forum report on him that has not been resolved which shouldn't even be allowed considering they are not admins.

We do not deny for outstanding applications, we put them on-hold and will process them as soon as they're concluded. I can understand that there's some resentment towards me, as I was the one to deny and ban you. However you were at that moment ineligible to obtain a PF license, as you had a recent Powergaming punishment. Our manual explains that if you have a recent powergaming punishment, you're not allowed to obtain the PF license for a few months. This is LFM approved.

 

16 minutes ago, Spring said:

That leaves most lawyers, business owners, even DA's as mentioned above by someone else without CCW unless they were robbed/shot or at least attempted to in the past. The CCW needs to be a precaution to prevent upcoming incidents, rather than a result of an incident.

Anyone in service of the law, be it a DA, judge, a simple lawyer, will not have any issues with the good cause. If someone is able to articulate why they're at a higher risk of being the victim of a violent crime, their chance of obtaining a good cause will be extremely high. There is no requirement to have something bad happen to you before applying, however having a credible threat does increase the likelihood of it being approved massively.

[jromjeksin]

4 minutes ago, Jeroen said:

We do not deny for outstanding applications, we put them on-hold and will process them as soon as they're concluded. I can understand that there's some resentment towards me, as I was the one to deny and ban you. However you were at that moment ineligible to obtain a PF license, as you had a recent Powergaming punishment. Our manual explains that if you have a recent powergaming punishment, you're not allowed to obtain the PF license for a few months. This is LFM approved.

Buddy, my comment had nothing to do with me. Denial for recent punishment was fair game and nothing in my comment mentioned anything about admin punishments. I specifically stated people with forum reports that are not concluded. You should not be able to put anything on hold because of a forum complaint since you aren't an admin and this is supposed to be an in character process. Should the person eventually get an admin punishment, then you should go back and remove the person's permit. 

[MAK0]

24 minutes ago, Jeroen said:

This forum thread is not your FLD helpdesk, if you need actual help make your way over to our contacts. We're more than happy to answer any of your questions.

 

We know. We are using this forum as intended to discuss changes that apparently more than just I would like to see.

 

24 minutes ago, Jeroen said:

If someone is able to articulate why they're at a higher risk of being the victim of a violent crime, their chance of obtaining a good cause will be extremely high. There is no requirement to have something bad happen to you before applying, however having a credible threat does increase the likelihood of it being approved massively.

 

The problem is, there is nothing to articulate, dude. The reasoning in it of itself is that the crime rate in the server is crazy. I call the cops every time I get robbed, it is NOT my fault they didn't write a report on it and I have absolutely NO way of knowing if they did so or not.

 

At the very least, if we can't just get rid of this assenine requirement, you guys need more "guidelines". This tells me literally nothing that you guys want:

Spoiler

1.4 CCW Good Cause Guidelines

In order to be eligible to be issued a Concealed Carry Weapon (CCW) permit in San Andreas, you need to articulate that you are of greater risk than the general public in your day-to-day life, have a highly probable/imminent threat to your life or the life of a friend/family member, or that you are a frequent victim of violent crime to the point that there is a credible pattern that you are being targeted over the average person.

When articulating this, you may find it pertinent to divulge details of your job, residency status, previous experience in violent situations, or with utilising firearms. These claims may be challenged by licensing officers, and proof of these occurrences may be requested in the form of proof of address, employment, high threat or prior police reports that detail your prior encounters with violent situations.

The length of your good cause statement is entirely discretionary. A minimum of 75 words but no maximum for the length of your statement. It is recommended that you think about your statement very carefully and go into enough detail to properly articulate to the licensing authority that you need access to a concealed weapon in order to protect yourself or someone close to you from a very probable threat where the presence of a concealed firearm would mitigate such a threat.

 

 

I'll happily take this discussion to FLD discord, but I will not waste my time or energy explaining my points for it to get dismissed. If you want some real life pointers on how CCW/PF licensing works IRL, hit me up anytime- MAK0#3446

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by MAK0