Thoughts on the Senate?

[KinnyWynny]

In all honesty I preferred having a city/county council.

 

Having a State senate is fine but… there’s a LOT of missed roleplay by not having a functional and interactive city government. Most people on the server just aren’t very aware of effected by the Senate, because they aren’t very local.

[Oaks.]

A Mayor in DarkRP has more power it seems.

[Now You See Me]

I didn't really take any notice of the senate until they began to plan something in which makes street legal motorbikes illegal to ride on the street due to the crime that surrounds them.

[liq]

The initial city council we had was something worth having. The elections involved the entirety of the server. There were daily events and palpable in-game competition from K-Town to the county and the civilian side of the server felt more vibrant than ever because there was a common goal to go around with. 

 

Forming the State Gov't was a decision made with the HoLF at the time on absence (and around his back), pushed forth by those desiring to get as much power as possible and be named (Lt) Governor to fulfill their fetishistic idea of having power over the Sheriff's Dept. and the Police Dept. Concepts like the San Andreas Investigation Bureau is, for example, another worthwhile project the same people used to do the very same thing. It wasn't necessary and it still isn't. This being said, the Senate was brought on its feet thanks to Eriks & Co. and there's worthwhile role-play to be had.

 

Faction Management did away with decriminalizing marijuana because "illegal role-play would be dead weed was legal." We had the most hilarious hunting laws just because there was a script that came along with it and we were told to make a law for it and pass it in a day. Open carry in the county took way too much effort too. And if that wasn't enough, they let someone role-playing a former Pakistani intelligence officer turned university professor who's got burned fingertips run for mayor unopposed from a role-play quality perspective. Faction Management then did away with a RICO equivalent and then there's illegal role-players feeling their characters' deaths not meaning anything to any form of in-game law enforcement is unrealistic because they're likely notorious. Don't get me wrong, OOC administration is necessary, but so is being transparent about what's desired.

 

The concept of political role-play is cool and needed for the population we've got, but the way it's being done is perhaps way too overextended. There's no need for a state government when all agencies revolve around LS County at best. A Board of Supervisors/City Council for unincorporated areas would do just fine and it should be pivotal around a Mayor figurehead. Less forum presence, more in game presence.

Edited August 22, 2021 by liq

[Allantrist]

4 hours ago, Martyn said:

Love the concept, quit following it straight away after noticing it doesn't have creative freedom and is restricted by management. Understandable or not, it made it less interesting to follow or to care about. Its just background noise unfortunately. Would've loved to see it different. 

This fifty times over. What's the point of it when it doesn't have any impact IG?

[NexusExodus]

The Senate/State Gov was born due to a lack of usefulness of the city government. The City Council was unable to pass any meaningful legislation. People wanted laws surrounding the penal code primarily, it’s quite frankly the only request we ever received daily, apart from budgeting concerns.

 

In terms of in-game activity and competitiveness, you’re not actually seeing a difference from when the council existed. The most harmful thing FM has done is remove district based elections. District elections forced candidates to actually build a following and find constituents in a specific area, which is why the first elections were so competitive, coupled with the idea of clear opposition, you knew who you were running against and you could focus on them. Then we switched to party based voting which is god awful, since candidates can piggy back off each other’s success and activity while contributing the bare minimum. 
 

From an OOC standpoint, I don’t care about any character’s political affiliation. All I care about is getting more active senators. We need to see more political events like a state of address, press conferences, fundraisers and so on, apart from the occasional in-game hearing on a bill. But then again, maybe that’s an IC issue? As long as the representative isn’t fully inactive and pulled a Rockford.

 

 

 

anywho, TLDR: Bring back district voting and you’ll see a greater in-game presence. The city council was cool, but it was useless in terms of creating effective legislation due to the lack of power it had over the penal code and state laws.

Edited August 22, 2021 by NexusExodus

[H04X]

10 minutes ago, NexusExodus said:

The Senate/State Gov was born due to a lack of usefulness of the city government. The City Council was unable to pass any meaningful legislation. People wanted laws surrounding the penal code primarily, it’s quite frankly the only request we ever received daily, apart from budgeting concerns.

 

In terms of in-game activity and competitiveness, you’re not actually seeing a difference from when the council existed. The most harmful thing FM has done is remove district based elections. District elections forced candidates to actually build a following and find constituents in a specific area, which is why the first elections were so competitive, coupled with the idea of clear opposition, you knew who you were running against and you could focus on them. Then we switched to party based voting which is god awful, since candidates can piggy back off each other’s success and activity while contributing the bare minimum. 
 

From an OOC standpoint, I don’t care about any character’s political affiliation. All I care about is getting more active senators. We need to see more political events like a state of address, press conferences, fundraisers and so on, apart from the occasional in-game hearing on a bill. But then again, maybe that’s an IC issue? As long as the representative isn’t fully inactive and pulled a Rockford.

 

 

 

anywho, TLDR: Bring back district voting and you’ll see a greater in-game presence. The city council was cool, but it was useless in terms of creating effective legislation due to the lack of power it had over the penal code and state laws.

Mainly this. Elections were an alien concept on the server until Halford-Saleh. I'll have to say though, while having a predestined competitor and (even fake) district elections sounds all lovely, there's a huge drawback to it. Let's not forget about the city council representatives who went AWOL right after being elected. With that system, there was no easy way to replace inactive office holders; while with the current party appointments the respective party leaders can make sure there's a smooth transit when replacements are made. And yes, city council was practically useless, only able to put down legislation revolving around fags in bars. But district voting solely would not fix everything. 

[Eriks]

Glad to see this discussion. I'm happy to see so many people raise the issue of OOC meddling in IC political affairs. From the insider's view, this situation contributes to significant apathy and burn-out for those who participate in political roleplay. I agree that there should be some OOC checks on the power of the Senate, i.e. the Governor's veto. However, many of the issues we see (i.e. OOC vetoes) stem from lack of communication during the legislative process. Everything the Senate does is public -- every hearing, remark, vote. Legislation is often considered over weeks to months, giving players every opportunity to weigh-in and contact their senator about concerns. My hope is that people take advantage of the openness of the Senate system. Senators want to hear what you think. That's the whole point of why they are in an elected office. I'd also encourage legal factions to appoint legislative liaisons in-character - someone dedicated to monitoring Senate business, building relationships with senators, and weighing in when necessary. Maybe there are also some things the Senate can do to make our system more accessible. Some of that accessibility can broaden with more in-game events (elections when?)

 

One note, since I've seen it floated as a "solution" to the pickle we are in... bringing the Senate down to the city system. A city council system would result in a more hand-tied legislature that's unable to touch state-wide policies on the server, like the penal code. The Senate would be reduced to a budgeting body that considers even more toothless legislation. Taking the Senate to the city level on GTAW isn't how you fix our political system.

[Trupiano]

I think they do a great job, given what they are allowed to do. My biggest concern when political RP started in general was that politician characters wouldn't really be IG characters and they'd be treated much like an event alt. I'm glad to say from my experience that almost ever politician is as active IG as they are on the forums. Not all the RP they do directly surrounds bills either, a lot of it is internal development and running the government day to day. Really cool shit but obviously not super impactful day to day.

 

The biggest issue facing Legal and political RP however seems to be a a serious level of micromanagement by LFM, leading to frustration and a lot of times the resignations of the people who got the ball rolling on political RP in the first place. Legalizing weed would seriously damage/destroy drug dealing RP, I'm glad it wasn't allowed to go through. But we've had other things blocked as well. If I remember correctly LFM blocked the death penalty from being executed at one point because they PERSONALLY were against the idea of the death penalty even if all parties including the person getting executed was ok with the RP.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is because like in the case of legalization, I think there are times when staff does need to block political changes. But overall? The IC political class has to be able to have the ability to effect real change on the server. Every significant bill or court case shouldn't be subjected to heavy handed intervention from staff.

 

 

[99]

2 hours ago, Trupiano said:

I'm not sure what the answer is because like in the case of legalization, I think there are times when staff does need to block political changes. But overall? The IC political class has to be able to have the ability to effect real change on the server. Every significant bill or court case shouldn't be subjected to heavy handed intervention from staff.

This is the moral of the story. There should be some oversight but only when absolutely necessary, not whenever they feel like it or don't agree with something.

Edited August 22, 2021 by 99