Character Design & Hiding behind Offensive Roleplay Rules

[in dyer need]

This is mostly a response to Dlimit but I can't be bothered to fucking quote rn (it's way too late or early depending how you look at it).

Literally fucking no one is claiming that murder and torture doesn't cause trauma but that does not mean that rape is the same as torture.
If you want to use the whole "oh, if you can deal with murder in a game then you can deal with rape in a game" logic, well, first off it's dumb but secondly I can guarantee you that there will always be a much larger number of players here that have either been directly affected by sexual crime or know someone that has been vs seen someone be murdered or know someone that has been directly affected by murder. Also, I highly doubt that any one bought GTA5, or any other GTA game, because they just really wanted to play a game where they get to rape someone.

 

If I had the choice to be tortured 10x vs Raped 1x, I would choose torture and I think most people would. Rape is an incredibly "personal" and invasive crime to have committed against you.

[shushu]

14 hours ago, Moonsong said:

I actually understood where you were coming from, until I saw this line and I stopped reading. Offensive roleplay rules must exist as a catch all to protect everyone and to discourage predatory behaviour. The minute you start adding exceptions it starts opening avenues that allow this kind of behaviour to flourish. Individual circumstances can change, perhaps they or family members were effected by something during that time. You just can't know, to presume that they're fine with it is just ignorant.

 

Having said that, I accept that there ARE people who hide behind OOC rules to avoid certain circumstances from transpiring. If you have sufficient proof of this and if it's a pattern of behaviour that repeats itself then you can make a forum, or RPQM report on said player. But exceptions to the offensive roleplay rule ARE NOT going to be made because it would set a very unhealthy precedent.

This. People who are neck-deep in defending/pushing for rape RP and torture RP just want to set a precedent. I can even say they're worse than those who hide behind the OOC rules to avoid IC consequences. 

 

Seriously, why would you even want to RP being a rapist and/or a torturer? The only reason I could think of is because you're itching and craving to satisfy your real life desires/fetishes, which is awfully disgusting. What kind of character development are you even aiming for? Is there even such a thing in rape/torture RP? This DLimit guy and everyone else pushing for this topic just because "someone's hiding behind the OOC rules" or because "someone pulled out the 'I am uncomfortable' card" need to get themselves checked. There might be something wrong with you. 

 

Wanna know why murder is allowed and not rape/torture? It's because your experience as the victim wouldn't last long. Sure, your family/relatives/friends will be traumatized as well but that's about it RP-wise as so many factors are involved when talking about real life experiences. When it comes to rape/torture, on the other hand, you are expected to curry the burden and trauma for as long as you're alive. It is MENTALLY taxing hence many victims IRL commit suicide. Think about it. Reality is sick, but that doesn't mean the game has to be on the same level.

 

At the end of the day, people will feel uncomfortable with some RPs and that's okay. Hell, player comfort should be one of the top priorities of the admins here, and I believe it is at the moment given the fact that there's a rule against offensive roleplay. It should stay that way. If a lot of people are uncomfortable with something that you are pushing for, then obviously there's something wrong with you/your idea. Get off the computer and reassess yourself. Stop telling people to not feel uncomfortable with your BS. And get over the fact that people will, from time to time, hide behind the rules to avoid IC consequences.

 

[SCANDALOUZ]

24 minutes ago, shushu said:

And get over the fact that people will, from time to time, hide behind the rules to avoid IC consequences.

 

 

You lost me here

[Moonsong]

24 minutes ago, shushu said:

This. People who are neck-deep in defending/pushing for rape RP and torture RP just want to set a precedent. I can even say they're worse than those who hide behind the OOC rules to avoid IC consequences. 

 

Seriously, why would you even want to RP being a rapist and/or a torturer? The only reason I could think of is because you're itching and craving to satisfy your real life desires/fetishes, which is awfully disgusting. What kind of character development are you even aiming for? Is there even such a thing in rape/torture RP? This DLimit guy and everyone else pushing for this topic just because "someone's hiding behind the OOC rules" or because "someone pulled out the 'I am uncomfortable' card" need to get themselves checked. There might be something wrong with you. 

 

Wanna know why murder is allowed and not rape/torture? It's because your experience as the victim wouldn't last long. Sure, your family/relatives/friends will be traumatized as well but that's about it RP-wise as so many factors are involved when talking about real life experiences. When it comes to rape/torture, on the other hand, you are expected to curry the burden and trauma for as long as you're alive. It is MENTALLY taxing hence many victims IRL commit suicide. Think about it. Reality is sick, but that doesn't mean the game has to be on the same level.

 

At the end of the day, people will feel uncomfortable with some RPs and that's okay. Hell, player comfort should be one of the top priorities of the admins here, and I believe it is at the moment given the fact that there's a rule against offensive roleplay. It should stay that way. If a lot of people are uncomfortable with something that you are pushing for, then obviously there's something wrong with you/your idea. Get off the computer and reassess yourself. Stop telling people to not feel uncomfortable with your BS. And get over the fact that people will, from time to time, hide behind the rules to avoid IC consequences.

 

 

Initially I was actually against the initial change in the rules because I felt it was too restrictive, people can always decline permission but after reading through some of the stomach turning responses in this thread I certainly see why it was needed. To stop exactly this kind of behaviour in its tracks. Will there be people who abuse loopholes in the rules? Of course, as long as there are rules there will be people pushing against them, and people trying to find ways around them.

[DLimit]

49 minutes ago, shushu said:

This. People who are neck-deep in defending/pushing for rape RP and torture RP just want to set a precedent. I can even say they're worse than those who hide behind the OOC rules to avoid IC consequences. 

 

Seriously, why would you even want to RP being a rapist and/or a torturer? The only reason I could think of is because you're itching and craving to satisfy your real life desires/fetishes, which is awfully disgusting. What kind of character development are you even aiming for? Is there even such a thing in rape/torture RP? This DLimit guy and everyone else pushing for this topic just because "someone's hiding behind the OOC rules" or because "someone pulled out the 'I am uncomfortable' card" need to get themselves checked. There might be something wrong with you. 

 

Wanna know why murder is allowed and not rape/torture? It's because your experience as the victim wouldn't last long. Sure, your family/relatives/friends will be traumatized as well but that's about it RP-wise as so many factors are involved when talking about real life experiences. When it comes to rape/torture, on the other hand, you are expected to curry the burden and trauma for as long as you're alive. It is MENTALLY taxing hence many victims IRL commit suicide. Think about it. Reality is sick, but that doesn't mean the game has to be on the same level.

 

At the end of the day, people will feel uncomfortable with some RPs and that's okay. Hell, player comfort should be one of the top priorities of the admins here, and I believe it is at the moment given the fact that there's a rule against offensive roleplay. It should stay that way. If a lot of people are uncomfortable with something that you are pushing for, then obviously there's something wrong with you/your idea. Get off the computer and reassess yourself. Stop telling people to not feel uncomfortable with your BS. And get over the fact that people will, from time to time, hide behind the rules to avoid IC consequences.

 

Never engaged in rape R.P. in my two years of experience on this server. However, every thing that you've described, can also exist with permitting "Torture RP". That's the point that I'm really addressing. The double-standards.

[shushu]

1 minute ago, SCANDALOUZ said:

 

You lost me here

Well it happens from time to time. If you have sufficient evidence, then feel free to do so. I'm not encouraging it. It's just that it's easier to deal with. Sooner or later, rulebreakers get punished. 

 

Look, I understand your argument. In real life, people who knowingly mess with organized crimes get tortured and raped. It's the sick reality of the world we live in. Just that GTAW is not the place for this kind of reality, no matter how careful you want to RP "it". It's unacceptable. For me, and for many others here, it's truly uncomfortable and disgusting to even see a tiny bit of sexual assault RP, more so rape RP. I'm not one of the best when it comes to RP, but I bet those who are good RPers can roleplay something different or something creative when it comes to being involved im underground crimes or the likes without having to touch a single bit of offensive RP. 

 

As for murder RPs, well, death is more acceptable as we are going to die IRL anyway. It's just a matter of how, when, where, and why. We are expected to die. But no one and nobody is expected to go through the traumatizing effects of being raped/tortured, may it be in a game or in real life. It's not easy to deal with personally, whether you're the victim or a relative/friend of the victim. In a game like GTAW, it's no fun at all. There is no character development for both sides. I'd rather just CK. I hope you understand the point.

 

23 minutes ago, Moonsong said:

 

Initially I was actually against the initial change in the rules because I felt it was too restrictive, people can always decline permission but after reading through some of the stomach turning responses in this thread I certainly see why it was needed. To stop exactly this kind of behaviour in its tracks. Will there be people who abuse loopholes in the rules? Of course, as long as there are rules there will be people pushing against them, and people trying to find ways around them.

True. Some words here are sickening, especially those who are pushing for rape/torture RP. It's just unacceptable for a game to turn exactly like real life.

[DLimit]

6 minutes ago, shushu said:

Well it happens from time to time. If you have sufficient evidence, then feel free to do so. I'm not encouraging it. It's just that it's easier to deal with. Sooner or later, rulebreakers get punished. 

 

Look, I understand your argument. In real life, people who knowingly mess with organized crimes get tortured and raped. It's the sick reality of the world we live in. Just that GTAW is not the place for this kind of reality, no matter how careful you want to RP "it". It's unacceptable. For me, and for many others here, it's truly uncomfortable and disgusting to even see a tiny bit of sexual assault RP, more so rape RP. I'm not one of the best when it comes to RP, but I bet those who are good RPers can roleplay something different or something creative when it comes to being involved im underground crimes or the likes without having to touch a single bit of offensive RP. 

 

As for murder RPs, well, death is more acceptable as we are going to die IRL anyway. It's just a matter of how, when, where, and why. We are expected to die. But no one and nobody is expected to go through the traumatizing effects of being raped/tortured, may it be in a game or in real life. It's not easy to deal with personally, whether you're the victim or a relative/friend of the victim. In a game like GTAW, it's no fun at all. There is no character development for both sides. I'd rather just CK. I hope you understand the point.

 

True. Some words here are sickening, especially those who are pushing for rape/torture RP. It's just unacceptable for a game to turn exactly like real life.

Just to clarify, torture's permitted on this server as long as it's in a private area/interior and all parties OOCly consent to being tortured or witnessing torture. It isn't banned on the server. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by DLimit

[SCANDALOUZ]

12 minutes ago, shushu said:

Well it happens from time to time. If you have sufficient evidence, then feel free to do so. I'm not encouraging it. It's just that it's easier to deal with. Sooner or later, rulebreakers get punished. 

 

Look, I understand your argument. In real life, people who knowingly mess with organized crimes get tortured and raped. It's the sick reality of the world we live in. Just that GTAW is not the place for this kind of reality, no matter how careful you want to RP "it". It's unacceptable. For me, and for many others here, it's truly uncomfortable and disgusting to even see a tiny bit of sexual assault RP, more so rape RP. I'm not one of the best when it comes to RP, but I bet those who are good RPers can roleplay something different or something creative when it comes to being involved im underground crimes or the likes without having to touch a single bit of offensive RP. 

 

As for murder RPs, well, death is more acceptable as we are going to die IRL anyway. It's just a matter of how, when, where, and why. We are expected to die. But no one and nobody is expected to go through the traumatizing effects of being raped/tortured, may it be in a game or in real life. It's not easy to deal with personally, whether you're the victim or a relative/friend of the victim. In a game like GTAW, it's no fun at all. There is no character development for both sides. I'd rather just CK. I hope you understand the point.

 

True. Some words here are sickening, especially those who are pushing for rape/torture RP. It's just unacceptable for a game to turn exactly like real life.

 

 

I get your point too, I just think that my point is a part of a bigger point.

 

I think many people define good role play to be one when it's rp that they would like to be a part of for the sake of their own ooc liking and visions of development and etc, when I believe that good role play should be role play in general as long as its realistic for the setting that its in and is sticking to core fundamentals, if that makes sense. In other words you should have fun role playing, not have fun when things are going your way in role play. So, if you can't handle losing and consequences IC on an OOC level - why RP? (again, I support rape rp being banned from the server)

 

Things don't always go your way and things aren't always fine and dandy. This is the joy of role playing, its not supposed to be a railroaded experience and people should stop trying to make it one, and I am speaking in general, I support rape remaining banned entirely.

 

You also can't sum up role play as "just a game" when its much more different, niche and deeper.

Edited July 1, 2021 by SCANDALOUZ

[Yoshijira]

15 hours ago, DLimit said:

I still don't understand why homicide's permitted but not consensual rape in a mature game

bruh

 

The difference is the fact that death, whether it be in the form of murder or not, is nothing that anybody that can directly experience and come back from except for in exceptionally rare cases. Rape is something that more than 1/4 of both men and women happen to experience, but more specifically, is something by its definition is something that somebody survives and directly experiences its trauma. And let's be honest, within a RP community, that number is more than likely significantly fucking higher than if you were to extrapolate it to most people. I highly doubt the majority of that demographic wants to even find themselves playing a game where such RP is taking place, even if in the highly unlikely circumstance its done with nuance and realistically and doesn't happen to just be some fetishized form of ERP.

[shaobadman]

this thread needs moderation asap because this went off topic 5 pages ago, i used to get infractions for posting a large thinking emoji but people can argue about controversial rape apologia now?

 

i'm not sure whether the dozen or so users are maliciously attempting to derail the thread by misunderstanding the post on purpose, or if they genuinely do not understand the point you're making and think you want to roleplay raping and mutilating everything that breathes

 

back on topic: the play to win mentality in rp servers is real, hypocrisy is real too, i won't speak on rape roleplay since there are rules anyway, but torture/mutilation roleplay is almost always, in my experience, carried out by gang members in this server, and similar to the ck agreements people make when they enter gangs, there should be a similar condition for the possibility of gruesome actions that may debilitate a player's character when they are put into such a roleplay scene, because if people keep opting out of rp that they inflict on other users, more people are going to see how unfair it is and do the same, and at that point you may as well be banning all kinds of offensive roleplay

 

failing that, i think it's completely fine for them to continue with a "fade to black" as long as they're completely willing to roleplay the consequences like missing limbs/digits or other permanent impacts, not because of rEaLiSm but because it creates a fairer environment for all players where nobody has to worry about playing a server where they're subjected to permanent effects to their character while others choose not to do so in the crime world just because they only want the good parts of crime roleplay

 

and after reading through all the weird comments here i want to say

• linking the gta 5 torture scene isn't a valid argument, because it's the player's experience, no real person is on the other end of that in the game
• "x happens in real life" isn't valid, this server's aim for realism doesn't mean everything needs to happen, in every interaction there's a real person on the other end
• i'm convinced that some users throwing insults at the thread's creator, completely missing their point, are probably the kind of players targeted by the topic

some players here can't kick the habit of comparing the server to reality as a catch-all, when they forget that this is a game server and should be at least somewhat entertaining/fair for everyone involved, and a good start would be binding dangerous characters to dangerous scenes, this isn't gtao where you can play out your one sided mafia boss wet dream without consequences