Official standing about IC population portrayal - Thoughts?

[Martyn]

I can get behind the whole "ignoring time" thing because it's a dick move to restrict people from roleplaying their characters the way they want simply because they live in a different part of the world. But not taking into account where it happens, the location? That's just wrong on so many different levels. If that doesn't matter anymore, you can no longer roleplay this city in a realistic setting anymore either as you completely take away the whole "Realistically the city would be populated thing". The implications for so many other things would be extreme and Los Santos will be Chernobyl with only a maximum of 1000 civilians being out and about at any given time. (If that). This would be the worst decision ever in my personal opinion.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Martyn

[The.Godfather]

Just now, i dont wanna od in LA said:

Maybe because people want to rp criminals or characters who are at very least involved in illicit activities because rping a regular person that works a 9-5 is boring as hell. I think that this should be rather addressed in an IC manner since it would be an IC solution to an IC problem. People who say that Vespucci's crime rates are too high are simply wrong.

Anyone saying Vespucci's crime rates are too high, or too low, is wrong. Nothing in this world is absolute. You've got to form a reasonable base for a relative comparison, to gather a logical insight into this or any matter. 
With that said, the closest to Vespucci, is Venice beach (IRL equivalent). If the crime rate is compared as a percentage of its total population, Vespucci's crime rate is probably fifty times more than its IRL equivalent, so I don't see how anyone who says its high is simply wrong.

[Koko]

1 minute ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

Maybe because people want to rp criminals or characters who are at very least involved in illicit activities because rping a regular person that works a 9-5 is boring as hell. I think that this should be rather addressed in an IC manner since it would be an IC solution to an IC problem.

Agreed, but standard crime isn't as much the problem, you can just find certain areas of Vespucci to avoid if you don't want to find people who'll press you IC. I agree, that is an IC issue, and I'm not complaining about skinheads or gangs in Vespucci roaming around.

 

The issue comes with the original topic matter which is population. Vespucci/Del Perro is filled with people commiting robberies while masked on vehicles because OOC they know that the formula is pretty bulletproof and due to game mechanics they can get away with it with that style of robbery even if this is simply not happening in Los Angeles but rather somewhere like São Paolo.

[eTaylor]

I think this discussion proves that this is just a complex issue you can’t cover with a blanket rule.

[i dont wanna od in LA]

2 minutes ago, Koko said:

The issue comes with the original topic matter which is population. Vespucci/Del Perro is filled with people commiting robberies while masked on vehicles because OOC they know that the formula is pretty bulletproof and due to game mechanics they can get away with it with that style of robbery even if this is simply not happening in Los Angeles but rather somewhere like São Paolo.

I agree. Del Perro is clearly based off of Santa Monica beach (including the pier as well) which is a way safer than Venice. It's essentially the "better" beach.

[u10sil]

Pretty much everyone here agrees with the move to ignore time of day. (And it should probably be added to the rules and continuity info). 
 

in any case - question for you, OP. How could someone ignore time of day while still taking into account population? They’re not exactly mutually exclusive. 

[Martyn]

12 minutes ago, u10sil said:

Pretty much everyone here agrees with the move to ignore time of day. (And it should probably be added to the rules and continuity info). 
 

in any case - question for you, OP. How could someone ignore time of day while still taking into account population? They’re not exactly mutually exclusive. 

 

Very interesting question which I didn't even think of myself when I said that we should ignore time. Population is heavily dependent on what time it is currently. There are obviously less people around at night in comparison to day at certain places. If we ignore time, how do we decide how crowded a location could potentially be? One player could be RPing as if it's night time for him, while the other doesn't. Time and location (population) pretty much go hand in hand. It'd be difficult to ignore one, but not the other and visa versa. And the alternative of RPing what you see, is not viable either. As mentioned before by someone, infrastructures would fail and other catastrophic events could unfold due to a lack of manpower to maintain things in the city. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Martyn

[Koko]

4 minutes ago, u10sil said:

in any case - question for you, OP. How could someone ignore time of day while still taking into account population? They’re not exactly mutually exclusive. 

My 2 cents on this: seeing how a lot of players RPing f.e. in South Central are American, are they fully RPing that 14 year olds are consistently out and about at 3AM on a weeknight while they live with their mom?

 

I personally feel like time is one of those unspoken variables that are left aside. It's a very difficult issue to solve and I think the community is more or less happy to agree not to bring time as an argument?

 

This to me means that we could always assume the same for population, that there's an "average" number of people at all times for that given area. We can always assume the seafront at Vespucci, or the large boulevards in Vinewood are always relatively busy, whereas more residential areas or alleys don't have massive traffic (which is true to big cities, many busy main streets lead to pretty empty side streets).

[Martyn]

6 minutes ago, Koko said:

My 2 cents on this: seeing how a lot of players RPing f.e. in South Central are American, are they fully RPing that 14 year olds are consistently out and about at 3AM on a weeknight while they live with their mom?

 

I personally feel like time is one of those unspoken variables that are left aside. It's a very difficult issue to solve and I think the community is more or less happy to agree not to bring time as an argument?

 

This to me means that we could always assume the same for population, that there's an "average" number of people at all times for that given area. We can always assume the seafront at Vespucci, or the large boulevards in Vinewood are always relatively busy, whereas more residential areas or alleys don't have massive traffic (which is true to big cities, many busy main streets lead to pretty empty side streets).

And what do you propose then, do these areas becomes greenzones due to this large amount of traffic you speak of? Unable to realistically commit certain types of obvious crimes such as assault, murder, robbery etc? Or do you propose a system where players are expected to call 911 themselves to simulate one of those "NPC's" to realistically call the police? Just playing the Devil's advocate here. I personally don't see a sensible resolution to these concerns other than just going about it like we used to. Just roleplay realistically and keep in mind the area you're in and what time it is.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Martyn

[Koko]

9 minutes ago, Martyn said:

And what do you propose then, do these areas becomes greenzones due to this large amount of traffic you speak of? Unable to realistically commit certain types of obvious crimes such as assault, murder, robbery etc?

I dont have an answer. Creating a "map" of hotspots will only create a new crime meta where crime will simply be played differently and abused in other ways with the mechanics given, and potential crime victims will metagame the map to avoid inevitable crime hotspots to run to "green zones", turning crime into a game of tag.

 

All I do in my own personal game experience is ignore time, which leads to my gut, personal reaction "would this happen here on your average day in Los Angeles?"

 

It's not a good system because it's entirely subjective, but it helps me maneuver my own RP environment in a way that I'm happy with.