DasFroggy

This is actually a pretty excellent summary. One side is demanding realistic responses to unrealistic circumstances. The moment the response is even a tiny bit unrealistic? It's a bridge too far, a grievous offense that mandates reporting and punishment... but when the unrealistic circumstances is mentioned? Suddenly it's back to "iT's jUsT a gAmE bRo"

Starting to rethink moving my character to live in one of the trailer parks out there... Speaking of which, what's the process for living out of an RV in that region? I sort of just parked near a bunch of the trailers, but I'm wondering if there's like, a designated place for RV living.

That's what I'm talking about. Strangely, that whole sentence doesn't have one mention stating that you're exclusively talking about area size, in fact... I'd dare to think that maybe it entails more about the nature of the game being about having fun with violence. ...but right on cue, you tried to immediately beeline into some extremely narrow niche that doesn't actually translate well from your initial statements, because realism for me, but not for thee. You're saying it's okay to make unrealistic conditions, but it's not okay when people realistically respond to unrealistic conditions, because apparently that's somehow unrealistic...

You're right, let's make this GTAO roleplay. No more Fear RP rules, if someone wants to run or shoot their muggers, it's good, because we're here for fun. Ah, but you see, this is the part where it becomes "It'S nOt rEaLiStiC wiThOuT fEaR rP rULeS". Realism for me, but not for thee.

I agree. If someone posts a maliciously fake report, they should receive a punishment. If someone says "this report is fake/petty" when there is in fact a rulebreak committed by the reported party, the punishment for the reported party should be doubled. They can either know the rules they're expected to follow, or remain cooperative and helpful when the matter of a potential rulebreak is investigated. We're all here to follow the rules, we should all be willing to commit whatever resources we reasonably can in order to ensure the rules are followed. Now, if someone thinks they saw a rulebreak, and genuinely wants the matter resolved? No punishments for the reporting party even if there wasn't an actual rule broken. I'll absolutely encourage punishing anyone that tries to maliciously lie about the events of a situation to get someone in trouble, but people that genuinely feel a rule was broken, are always going to have my support in posting up a report. ...and coming from someone who hasn't been reported ever? The someone that literally made a successful business selling guns stolen from other people? That's a pretty big deal. Following the rules isn't hard.

Really hoping I get to go over the crime statistics of our city again. Please? I'll be polite this time, maybe.

Willing to bet IFM and LFM wouldn't be too keen on everyone wearing masks either. Soon as it becomes a city-wide IC trend, you can bet your bottom dollar they'll kick the OOC shenanigans into high gear to shut it down. Hell, we didn't even have to get as far as actually implementing it IC - as soon as I made the serious suggestion, several people got reeeaaal upset with me. Not hard to guess why they might be upset with their super special masks becoming the hot new way to live in LS.

I've been here for years. Never been reported, never been punished for breaking an ingame rule, and this was while propping up a car theft ring that made a solid profit selling stolen firearms, lockpicks, and various other necessities. It's not that people are getting caught because someone posted a petty report, it's that people are breaking the rules and getting caught, even if by the tiniest thread. Don't break the rules, and you'll be fine. Keep in mind that I'm not the favorite for certain someones. People have reasons to want to catch me breaking rules. They never have though, because it's laughably easy to follow the rules.

If a rule is broken, failing to address that rulebreak is allowing the community as a whole to suffer. If someone observes a rulebreak in any capacity, it should never be discouraged to want to uphold the written rules of the community. It's usually most often said by people who are guilty, too. I can't even begin to count the amount of times a dude would answer a report with "This report is petty" and then get punished for very obviously breaking the rules.

Goddamn, things are looking up for both sides! The police get bodycams without any OOC objections, and the city culture gets to become one where masks are part of everyday life. I like it. We're getting closer to my dream of having a roleplay experience more on par with Night City. The sooner we throw off the shackles of rules of engagement and all that, we'll be able to REALLY enjoy things. Let's make it happen cap'n.

What's wrong with my preference? If it's alright for an unrealistically large portion of the population to wear masks in public, why worry about everyone wearing masks? I'm legit all for this. We've got a chance to make an interesting cultural trend. The responses have all been "keep it IC bro" so what's wrong with the culture of this city keeping it IC and fully embracing the growing trend?

You know what? You're right. Guys, I'm changing sides in this debate. Everyone. EVERYONE should wear masks for every waking moment they're outside. Let's go full Mandalorian culture here. Ostracize anyone that isn't wearing a mask, and never take off your mask while in public. For real, let's do this. I'm onboard with it.

The last time we tried to approach an issue with IC legislation (weed legalization), it was shut down, ironically, by a certain section of the community crying about it OOCly. We need a bulletproof guarantee that it will be completely, irreversibly impossible to OOCly stop an IC resolution of this perceived issue of masked individuals being too prominent. Otherwise? It just can't be "Fix it IC."

It's a settled fact, whether people understand it or not, that car robberies have killed an entire server when allowed. It did a pretty hefty dent in the population of our remaining server too, which is why the rule was implemented to begin with. Two experiments were conducted and both conclusively demonstrated with consistently similar outcomes, that allowing it would effectively destroy the server population to a point of, if unchecked, outright killing the server entirely. You're not wrong, there isn't a consensus, and that's because there's a section of the criminal community that literally can't understand this. Literally impossible. It could be explained with crayons and actual, real-time demonstrations, and they would legit still insist that they should be allowed to land the plane. Doesn't matter that they don't have flight experience, doesn't matter that they don't understand the actual facts of what they're discussing... they want to do it because THEY say that "a majority of the community supports this stance." This is actually against the rules. If you run, your character is opened to a CK pending a forum report, and you can and usually are punished for poor fear RP, which can lead to punishments as far as a ban if you've got a sufficient enough record. A recurring point in this discussion is that it's not possible. The same approach was taken with weed legalization, and that was shut down so hard that it killed server interest in politics for a good long while. Like, legit, most of the community was onboard with taking it IC, and then someone behind the scenes said "nah" and weed legalization was shut down through OOC means. Same thing applies to any future criminalization/legalization efforts. Try getting rifles made legal, with open carry. You won't get far. Never gonna' happen.

It isn't just necessary, it's literally a critical structure in the wellbeing of the server. We get a LOT of people coming here that haven't been around to see what it's like without the rule, and it plays out like some stupid B-quality horror movie where the inexperienced folks unironically say "You know, I think they were overreacting when they sealed the cave of super mega doom. The people that sealed it were morons that don't appreciate us and how responsible we are. As an act to prove how we're responsible, we should reopen the cave of super mega doom. What could go wrong?" Nobody asks "Hey, is there someone here that has experience with this rule and the conditions that warranted it being implemented?" Literally not even the tiniest little hint of curiosity, it's reliably a one hundred percent guarantee that the discussion will always be someone kicking it off with "We should do away with it." or "It's bad, and whoever thought it up is bad." Why's that a problem? Because the one time we decided not to have it, it literally killed the more popular of our two servers in just a couple of months. That's not hyperbole, that's fact. Liberty City yielded a population bigger than this original GTAW server, and it also came with the added promise that the car mugging rule would be no more. A criminal's paradise! ...until it wasn't. The criminal activity burned through the civilian population in a couple of weeks, and soon criminals found the only people they were mugging were eachother. Legit suggestions came around saying that the SA server should be shut down to support the LC server, and renewed talks about banning indoor roleplay began to materialize right alongside it. By the time the rule was restored, the LC sever population was stuck in the double digits, didn't have enough of a roleplay singularity going on, and fizzled out. It's an easy tell, it gives away who's been here and really been a part of the community, when someone talks about what rules should be changed. It's a good tell because it shows us who was here to see the events leading up to the new rule. I was there to see the cementing of the car robbery rule, and I was there to see the Drew Banks amendments made to prohibit robbing hunters. The rule's not going away, not unless someone can build a time machine to go back and undo the mistake that killed Liberty City. Now, the root cause of this? The reason WHY these rules are necessary? Because some folks don't come here to roleplay. I came here to roleplay, and my muggings were literally roleplay focused with actual script gains being exclusively whatever the mark wanted to give up. They weanted to keep that gun? They could. They wanted to keep their money and their phone? They could. I Made hundreds of thousands doing this because people LOVE roleplay-focused criminals. The people they encounter most often though, are people that focus on the script gains and less on the roleplay. These people they encounter, will use every excuse possible to ignore fear RP, and every possible mechanical advantage to guarantee a win, even if it means sidelining roleplay quality to get it. People that do that? Need to find another server. We're here to roleplay IC interactions, not compete for OOC clout in one of the most elaborate games of pretend ever.