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DasFroggy

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  1. In case anyone is thinking that this is a joke, or an exaggeration, it's not. They were literally murdered.
  2. As someone else pointed out, reporting it doesn't fix it. At best it just cycles them out for someone just as bad, if not worse than the other, and we can never be sure the ban evasion tracking is foolproof. It also paints you as a target for reporting them, getting you on the bad side of any friends they have, and anyone that has an interest in dealing with potential problems. Even interiors aren't safe. It's almost daily that a nightclub or casino has to close early because an underage gangbanger felt that getting turned away was enough justification to start attacking people with a hammer. If an interior location with dozens of people an a literal armed guard can't stop the disruption, how do you expect random unarmed people to do any better out in the open? You should go there more often. It's definitely an educational experience, and how they operate REALLY opened my eyes to the crimegrinder problem we're facing everywhere else. K-Town is what the rest of the criminal community should hold as the standard for criminal roleplay. If people start crimegrinding in their turf, crimegrinder bodies tend to start turning up in compactors. From what I've witnessed, they have an exceptionally low tolerance for crimegrinding, and make good on policing their own and anyone that operates in their area. Don't believe me? Give it a spin. Go in, crimegrind away in K-Town, and see how long you last.
  3. Not everyone wants to roleplay getting hospitalized any time they go outside either. I've seen someone fully cooperate with a mugging only to get beaten by several hammers and then shot in the leg "to keep him from calling the cops". This is a tragically hilarious part of the debate that always comes up - the accusation that the people voicing their opinion have no idea what criminal roleplay is. Like, come on, I run a decent car theft ring, this isn't just whining. I can literally see from within that something is rotting out the criminal community, and everyone's so afraid of dealing with it that they let it fester until... Oh boy! More rules. Only, the rules aren't coming fast enough, and people are leaving. Asking "why is the city so empty" is essentially GTAW tradition now, and nobody wants to deal with it. I've resigned to a simple truth - it's going to get worse, and when a competing text roleplay community opens, it'll blow a hole in the side of our community.
  4. Legislation has been tried before, but it's been discovered that there's an OOC balance against legislative action. If any law or legislation is 'too disruptive' then it is automatically denied OOC. The legislature is toothless, they can't do anything to chat this crime epidemic, and even if they could, what could possibly be implemented to fight crime without becoming an oppressive police state? I'll get ahead of you and say that no amount of funding or laws can combat metagaming. MegaCity-9 Roleplay died so hard by trying to tapdance around the core issue, that you can't even find the wiki page anymore. This was despite having street Judges armed with the best vehicles, the best weapons, and the most controlling laws. If one side is allowed to metagame, the other won't have much power to do anything. Only if the situation has equal potential if reversed. If the target victim panics, pulls a gun and successfully dispatches the people/muggers/criminals threatening them, it should be CKs for the criminals. No questions about their background, no inquiries behind their thought process. They panicked, the criminals died. Case closed.
  5. I didn't see one single headshot, or deaths in the span of half a second of the first shots fired. In almost every example you can provide, I guarantee that persons leaving their car to fire upon an officer at their vehicle, need upwards of fifteen seconds to entire minutes to successfully kill an officer. In GTAW, gunmen kill the officer usually with nigh 100% accurate hits and before the officer can even understand what's happening. Your example is little more than proof of how bad GTAW police stop shootings are in terms of roleplay quality. Play to win and nothing but. Assuming the staff don't shut down the legislature and OOC declare the new measures 'too disruptive' to be allowed, that'll just result in more complaints about things being 'too tough' for criminals. It'll get shut down and we'll be back where we were, with people telling us to try it again, only to be told by staff that we shouldn't have been allowed to try it in the first place. If you get me a unanimous admin agreement that any legislation can be passed to fight crime without any OOC interference, I'll take your suggestion seriously, and fight for legislation to put an end to the rampant crime. *unless the IC response does not adhere to the one unrealistic response that the rules have mandated as the only allowed response. We can't respond IC to the IC issue if we're punished for trying to be realistic about our IC response. I'll do you one better, you can find the person that had you arrested, and kill them.
  6. They should still be allowed to panic. It's a fear response, people won't think clearly and they'll make poor decisions, one of which is defending themselves. Will they get shot, killed even? Probably! But they should have the choice to panic.in such a way. Except that they can't panic. There is a hard OOC limit that says they can only.panic one way, "for convenience". A lack of training is all the equipment anyone needs to not understand how exactly drawing a gun can make a situation infinitely more dangerous. As someone trained and experienced in interacting with the general populace and assessing their threat potential to my posting, it is rarely anything but the lack of training that makes a person dangerous and prone to exercising lethal force when inappropriate. This idea of knowing stuff? ...like when to draw a gun, or assess when it's too dangerous? That's stuff you TRAIN to know. It doesn't come naturally, and a lot of shootings occur precisely because people don't understand that their position is not optimal for drawing a weapon and surviving. The sever permits a meta that can force compliance even though it's unrealistic, but doesn't bat an eye when the crime rate starts shutting down community roleplay enough that a "why is the city so empty?" discussions start popping up every month or so. The server is okay with unrealistic crime, but punishes realistic responses to the unrealistic crime. You're right, it's not black and white, it's mostly.one-sided black. I agree with this. It's civilian and criminal versus bad RPers. The only reason we even have to discuss this is because there is a section of poor quality roleplayers that are leaning on the outdated meta for every possible gain they can get.
  7. If that many are approaching you, visibly armed with weapons for killing, in a city where upwards of five to ten people are killed every day, it's extremely likely anything but a violent response will lead to being killed, possibly even I'm a horrific fashion. The panicked reaction is usually to draw their firearm and attempt to use it. People are punished for this in this community. The backstory is that they live in the most dangerous city on the planet. They know that a lot of people die to violent crime, but when they decide to panic and be fearful... ...oh, sorry! Not sorry. You're not allowed to actually legitimately panic in a realistic fashion if it's inconvenient. You have to exclusively follow one specific course of action, because we've arbitrarily decided that's realistic, even though it rarely creates actual fun and engaging scenes. But nevermind the unrealistic crime rate. Can't be bothered with realism, because how would that be fun?
  8. Which is why this discussion is taking place, as the crime rate has reached a point where the only possible IC response is in contradiction to the rules. If we're going to accept an unrealistic crime rate, people shouldn't be punished for unrealistic responses to said unrealistic crime rate.
  9. Except that there's no way to know if they'll honor that little arrangement. It's essentially accepted fact that most people are going to see upwards of three to five bodies a day, so what's the likely outcome when four people armed with equipment specify engineered for killing and nothing but, approach you, in a city where more people die each day than accounted for in the total national weekly average in most third world countries? Which brings us back to the question, are we going to accept the unrealistic crime rate and all the implications that come with it, or are we going to crack down on the unrealistic crime rate? Something tells me people are going to opt for the status quo of realism only when fun for some.
  10. Five hundred world points says that if pulled over, they'd shoot the cop because they were afraid of going to prison.
  11. It's weird, because I wouldn't really be bothered by it, and I'd be entirely willing to even let them catch up, if they actually used the opportunity for roleplay. But they don't. As soon as they get any chance at all, it's straight up -pop pop- two shots between the eyes even if the victim is unarmed. No roleplay, just straight up murder and looting.
  12. Given the sheer number of bodies turning up in the streets on a daily basis, it's a bit much to then turn around and tell people that they can't be afraid of people armed with corpsemakers choosing to maintain the corpsemaking status quo, that they have to be both aware of the excessive corpsemaking, but specifically insert themselves into a situation in which corpsemaking is both likely and proven to occur. They don't just hunt you down, they usually kill you for it too.
  13. So why is it "it's a game" for only the criminals? Why can't it be a game for the victims too? There shouldn't be anything wrong with overlooking an unrealistic uptick in self defense if we're already overlooking an unrealistic uptick in crime.
  14. I'm all for going back to the original discussion, seeing as we still have yet to find a conclusive answer... Should an unrealistic crime rate be allowed or not? Getting this answered would better help in assessing how best to respond.
  15. This doesn't always seem to work. Last few times I tried it, the muggers just beat the stuffing out of my character.
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