Why do people identify civilians as "rats" immediately?

[Engelbert]

Just now, Yoshijira said:

In the same vein that I do Legal RP'ers the courtesy of assuming they're not just either:
A. Self inserts and are instead there to portray interesting characters.

B. PF wielding lesbian mallrat ricers that don't really portray a character but are there instead to either fulfill whatever OOC sexual fantasies they have and go vroom vroom fast car.

 

You should also realize that the worst and most obvious groups of Illegal RP'ers is not to be completely indicative of how Illegal RP as a whole actually functions. Hell, you can look at literally most faction threads and realize the majority of Gang RP on this server consists of either passive RP, politicking or interacting with other gangs. Most gangs don't actively go out of their way to shoot, unless its war time, and most gangs don't exactly have their members go on robbing sprees either. At most it's two, at which point the aftermath is roleplayed out.

 

Also, this doesn't even account for Organized Crime groups, which are practically molded into most serious forms of legal/civilian RP at this point.

I know that, I was just pointing out, that people tend to remember only the bad things, that goes for both sides. People will always generalize and frankly as someone stated already, civilians are mostly hit with the bad criminal roleplay, cause the good one does not target them. So I ask, why is it a daily issue then?

[EffPee]

9 minutes ago, Yoshijira said:

In the same vein that I do Legal RP'ers the courtesy of assuming they're not just either:
A. Self inserts and are instead there to portray interesting characters.

B. PF wielding lesbian mallrat ricers that don't really portray a character but are there instead to either fulfill whatever OOC sexual fantasies they have and go vroom vroom fast car.

 

You should also realize that the worst and most obvious groups of Illegal RP'ers is not to be completely indicative of how Illegal RP as a whole actually functions. Hell, you can look at literally most faction threads and realize the majority of Gang RP on this server consists of either passive RP, politicking or interacting with other gangs. Most gangs don't actively go out of their way to shoot, unless its war time, and most gangs don't exactly have their members go on robbing sprees either. At most it's two, at which point the aftermath is roleplayed out.

 

Also, this doesn't even account for Organized Crime groups, which are practically molded into most serious forms of legal/civilian RP at this point.

Honestly, I agree with most of this but there are certainly some gangs around that are less interested in the bountiful storylines & enjoyment you can get from general passive roleplay, and long term beefs in particular. They'd rather escalate gang beefs into shootout wars almost immediately because they're obsessed with DM videos. It's most likely the minority, but it does still exist; however this only generally affects other illegal roleplayers. When illegal roleplay is done right, it's definitely what you said; scoring a balance between passive RP and war-time RP. No one claims that illegal roleplay is perfect, but steps are being taken to flush out these black sheep.

 

I think most of the opinions against illegal roleplay on this thread come from people that have been robbed multiple times, but they rarely stop to think it's not always the same person robbing them. Our characters are in a closed cycle, you're bound to get robbed multiple times by several different criminals in such a small playerbase; this isn't an issue with portrayal, it's an issue with lack of better options.  

 

Civilian roleplayers will never understand the pain of having to deal with a DM gang on a daily basis; however that's something that happens alot in the gang community right now. I understand complaints about poor portrayal coming from robbers, but I will say it again that generalising helps nobody and it doesn't make your point any stronger.

Edited April 12, 2021 by EffPee

[Yoshijira]

6 minutes ago, Engelbert said:

I know that, I was just pointing out, that people tend to remember only the bad things, that goes for both sides. People will always generalize and frankly as someone stated already, civilians are mostly hit with the bad criminal roleplay, cause the good one does not target them. So I ask, why is it a daily issue then?

I can genuinely say the exact same thing.

 

Are you aware of how many times Gang RP'ers need to deal with debatable RP from legal RP'ers? Take for example MS13 literally having fecal matter and various bodily fluids thrown onto the couch at the spot they usually chill at for pressing people and simply saying "Where you from, you bang?" and then the overall justification being, "Oh well we were being threatened!"

 

Or the amount of times a PF wielding legal RP'er went all gung hoe in South Central and immediately took any provocation as a threat upon their life, pulled their PF and started shooting? Or anybody just failing to RP fear when they're surrounded by seven angry Latino gangbangers and continuing to act like they've got plot armor all over their character? Or even random legal RP'ers just taking the houses in South Central because they're dirt cheap and failing to RP what living in such an area would be, still continuing to drive nice and fancy cars and mapping out their houses to be wildly extravagant?

 

These are also daily issues that illegal RP'ers, hell legal hood RP'ers, deal with. Can I separate myself from it and recognize that these RP'ers coming over there are not indicative of all Legal RP? Yes.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Yoshijira

[DasFroggy]

20 minutes ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

Stop trying to invade illegal roleplay

What. 

 

21 minutes ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

Stop trying to invade illegal roleplay, stick to your own kind (of roleplay) and the issues won't arise.

Sounds good. This is a guarantee from you that if I do not willingly involve.myself in criminal roleplay, I will be spared of muggings, yes?

 

The point that was being made before, is that criminals are in many ways expected to forcefully involve themselves in civilian roleplay, usually via muggings, extortion, and crime in general. Meanwhile, civilians... do paperwork? There is really no activity they can engage in to "invade illegal roleplay" without becoming a member of a legal faction, or becoming criminals themselves. Either way, civilians do not really "invade".

 

18 minutes ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

Do some research before hopping onto this forum

You're in luck, someone asked me to do the same, and I actually did my research. Steered away from Venezuela, it was suggested I use Colombia instead (as according to them, Colombia was actually way more dangerous). At roughly three hundred fifty murders a year in Colombia amongst the entire population of Colombia as a whole, that amounts to roughly one to two confirmed murders a day.

 

The GTAW iteration of Los Santos with a total population of one thousand five hundred has, if limited exclusively to confirmed CKs broadcasted via chat, five murders a day.

 

That is if we completely discount PKs, and unverified kills are just that - unverified; they might as well be a useless anecdote.

 

Per the research over the past month, and in comparison to actual recorded, factual numbers reported by several reliable investigative organizations tasked with researching the total murder rates of nations across the globe...

 

...our iteration of the one city of Los Santos, is almost three times as dangerous as the entire country of Colombia.

[i dont wanna od in LA]

And so what? There's also ten times more lesbians driving sportscars with guns on them, than in the entire Colombia. Point proven?

Edited April 12, 2021 by i dont wanna od in LA

[nateX]

People on this thread complaining that gang RPers start trouble whether that would be on the street or at a business have clearly not done their research. Gangs are ruthless, that's why they're called unorganized crime; they don't care as much about going to jail or dying for their gang as much as you'd expect they would. Organized crime groups on the other hand are the underbelly of the criminal world, as a group, they stay quiet most of the time and don't cause too much fuss. I can bring up my personal experiences for example. Two nights ago a group of 3 people rolled into my factions hood and started inspecting the roofs there, causing trouble, talking shit about us, and threatening us, a fight broke out which resulted in one of the car's tires being poked with a knife. These individuals then went up right in front of us and started threatening us and later called the police, none of us were arrested and we just parted ways. Last night we saw one of the people from that situation on her own at a vehicle dealership. Out of the 5 of us, 3 were ex-inmates and we were literally a hair strand away from either jumping her or shooting her in the middle of an open business.

If you have any complaints about an illegal faction - please forward your reports to the appropriate departments within the staff team or stop complaining. You either report or not, it's that simple. People that complain about gang members starting troubles are simply uneducated on the topic because as I've already said, many of them are ready to die for their gang, whether that would be because of pure loyalty, drug addiction, or other factors that might impact their decision. I've linked some videos below so you can educate yourself on the subject for future reference, one of the videos is from the mid-90s and the other ones are more recent. Other than the incident above, I've had nothing but positive encounters with civilians and none of my members have been the instigator of an incident thus far. We've had two bad encounters so far, one was the incident described above and the other one was when someone out of nowhere started throwing racial slurs at my faction but was quickly ajailed by admins for an unrelated incident. If you don't want conflict, don't start it - it's that simple. Have a great day.

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by nateX

[DasFroggy]

1 minute ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

And so what? There's also ten times more lesbians driving sportscars with guns on them, than in the entire Colombia. Point proven?

Yes, actually. It seems you are beginning to understand how extraordinarily out of control the criminal situation has become, much as there is similarly a plague of characters developed only for ERP.

 

The main difference is that those Lesbians are not actively hunting criminal roleplayers to mug them of their valuables. It is still not good that there is such a degree, but one side generally has more initiative and almost an essential purpose of forcing into the roleplay of others at the specific IC detriment of those others.

 

But yes, you pretty much nailed it on the head - just like the ERP situation, the criminal roleplay is wildly beyond any notion of realistic, to the point that it is negatively impacting both civilian and criminal roleplay.

[i dont wanna od in LA]

Just now, DasFroggy said:

Yes, actually. It seems you are beginning to understand how extraordinarily out of control the criminal situation has become, much as there is similarly a plague of characters developed only for ERP.

 

The main difference is that those Lesbians are not actively hunting criminal roleplayers to mug them of their valuables. It is still not good that there is such a degree, but one side generally has more initiative and almost an essential purpose of forcing into the roleplay of others at the specific IC detriment of those others.

 

But yes, you pretty much nailed it on the head - just like the ERP situation, the criminal roleplay is wildly beyond any notion of realistic, to the point that it is negatively impacting both civilian and criminal roleplay.

Once again waiting on your response how gang X shooting gang Y in a completely different part of the city bothers you. 

[DasFroggy]

2 minutes ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

Once again waiting on your response how gang X shooting gang Y in a completely different part of the city bothers you. 

Where did I say specifically that my issue was exclusively with "gangs shooting gangs"? Feel free to find that exact quote from my responses.

 

My main concern, as stated multiple times, is the relationship between the civilian and the criminal community. Civilians have no real forcible means or interest in attacking criminals that is not against the rules or just outright impossible tedious, whereas criminals have a number of advantages that are leveraged against the civilian community, and with what should be the most rare crime of all (murder), the proportional scaling of lesser crimes similarly goes up. Muggings in central are a weekly occurrence, and Soreno Team Six is just what was caught - more shootings and Los Santos gang related crime are still occurring in the mountains.

 

...and none of the action being taken to combat it is visible. Is there action being taken to combat this? I do not know, it is kept private. A pretty big downfall if your goal is to establish trust with your victims.

[DLimit]

53 minutes ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

So what youre saying is that a bunch of people who cause problems represent the entire community? Well you (mallrats) get the same treatment. Stop trying to invade illegal roleplay, stick to your own kind (of roleplay) and the issues won't arise. It's as simple as that.

As a criminal roleplayer, I enjoy the presence of legal RPers. It provides diverse situations. I'd prefer if legal RPers interacted with criminal RPers, more frequently, to the extent that they purchase a gram, here and there.

I've never seen an "Us vs Them" situation. Only aspect that I HEAVILY dislike about SOME legal roleplayers is that they automatically ignore any one that may potentially be a criminal OR act like they wouldn't fear hostile gang members (John Wicks).

Edited April 12, 2021 by DLimit