The Mask Epidemic

[Martyn]

14 hours ago, honey. said:

I don't agree with removing the "Mask_etc" above the head when they're used because fact of the matter is people will intentionally and unintentionally metagame the names. It will happen, no matter how great a player is.

 

Enforcing server rules will be micromanagy as a motherfucker and incredibly difficult to enforce, "why're you wearing a mask?" "i was looking for someone to rob" "you've been here 20 mins" "i couldn't find anyone worthy", it'll be a revolving issue.

 

An in-character fix seems to be the most appropriate, but there is the risk of certain players within law enforcement factions abusing this, so does there need to be an OOC protection on an IC law? Or should it just be the IC law and give law enforcement more to work with?

 

If there's ICly room to abuse a law, that's on the law makers. Define the law properly to the point where there's no room for abuse, it's not really rocket science no offense. I also find it a little wierd to decide to go down the IC route only to then not deal with the IC consequences of said law. You might as well not have gone the IC route and created OOC rules right away. I wish we could just leave things IC for a change, if cops start to fuck with too many people due to a potential mask law just let people protest, let them use these puppet-senators that don't need to be elected and are put in their position of authority by administrators. Maybe they can actually put some work in, instead of using their position of power to create harems by influencing gullible female characters and indulge in other questionable shit. Don't take away entire storyline and plots because you've got some teenagers upset they can no longer walk around like Snake eyes from G.I Joe. I'm personally looking forward to it, along with all the potential debates and drama that can come from this. I'd even like to see some kind of in-character referendum where law makers and other political characters can be given some time to sway the public through debates, social media posts, public appearances and the likes of that. Political roleplay in general can enhance things on the server so much more than it does in its current state if only we were to utilize them more on important subjects without a management veto on anything that could potentially impact people. 

[Kappaurel]

48 minutes ago, Martyn said:

 

If there's ICly room to abuse a law, that's on the law makers. Define the law properly to the point where there's no room for abuse, it's not really rocket science no offense. I also find it a little wierd to decide to go down the IC route only to then not deal with the IC consequences of said law. You might as well not have gone the IC route and created OOC rules right away. I wish we could just leave things IC for a change, if cops start to fuck with too many people due to a potential mask law just let people protest, let them use these puppet-senators that don't need to be elected and are put in their position of authority by administrators. Maybe they can actually put some work in, instead of using their position of power to create harems by influencing gullible female characters and indulge in other questionable shit. Don't take away entire storyline and plots because you've got some teenagers upset they can no longer walk around like Snake eyes from G.I Joe. I'm personally looking forward to it, along with all the potential debates and drama that can come from this. I'd even like to see some kind of in-character referendum where law makers and other political characters can be given some time to sway the public through debates, social media posts, public appearances and the likes of that. Political roleplay in general can enhance things on the server so much more than it does in its current state if only we were to utilize them more on important subjects without a management veto on anything that could potentially impact people. 

 

Just gonna address the part related to law makers.

 

1 - There are many constitutional problems related to anti-mask laws. In Tennessee and Florida there have been some anti-mask laws taken down by the courts.

 

2 - IC lawmaking has been often overruled by Faction Management (not stating any opinion on this, just the facts, this has happened several times), and I am not sure what their take is on banning masks as this change would heavily impact illegal roleplayers. I don't wanna find out either, no one likes putting the work in a bill and then having it taken down.

 

The sooner we all realize that the Senate and IC politics don't really have that much power or influence on the server, the better. We are here to roleplay politics, not to change the gameplay or the server, that's up to the staff.

 

Like @honey. said:

 

Quote

An in-character fix seems to be the most appropriate, but there is the risk of certain players within law enforcement factions abusing this, so does there need to be an OOC protection on an IC law? Or should it just be the IC law and give law enforcement more to work with?

 

ADDITIONALLY:

 

Every person here that says "handle it IC", are you aware that if we were to make a law against usage of masks in public, it could be worded in a way that allows frisks on every player that is wearing a mask? I am sure how people would start feeling about this OOC and what would go down afterwards.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Kappaurel

[Kappaurel]

18 hours ago, Copperhorse said:

I don't believe IC law would be constitutional. You are allowed to wear a mask IRL besides entering secured buildings. Out in public there's nothing law enforcement can do if you're walking around in a ski-mask. 

 

Needs to be a server rule that you need a reason to wear a mask.

 

It is constitutional if worded properly. There are anti-mask laws in the District of Columbia, New York, Georgia...

[Narco]

2 hours ago, Kappaurel said:

 

Just gonna address the part related to law makers.

 

1 - There are many constitutional problems related to anti-mask laws. In Tennessee and Florida there have been some anti-mask laws taken down by the courts.

 

2 - IC lawmaking has been often overruled by Faction Management (not stating any opinion on this, just the facts, this has happened several times), and I am not sure what their take is on banning masks as this change would heavily impact illegal roleplayers. I don't wanna find out either, no one likes putting the work in a bill and then having it taken down.

 

The sooner we all realize that the Senate and IC politics don't really have that much power or influence on the server, the better. We are here to roleplay politics, not to change the gameplay or the server, that's up to the staff.

 

Like @honey. said:

 

 

ADDITIONALLY:

 

Every person here that says "handle it IC", are you aware that if we were to make a law against usage of masks in public, it could be worded in a way that allows frisks on every player that is wearing a mask? I am sure how people would start feeling about this OOC and what would go down afterwards.

 

Couldn't have worded it better myself. 

[Copperhorse]

2 hours ago, Kappaurel said:

 

It is constitutional if worded properly. There are anti-mask laws in the District of Columbia, New York, Georgia...

It is not constitutional. I just looked at the law in DC and it's basically only if you're using it in a crime to hinder identification. We already have a IC law for that but it's a very petty crime.

[Finn]

The way I see it, there should just be stricter laws IC against wearing masks instead of enforcing it OOC. Masks don't need to banned IC either, but when an individual is circling around in a high crime area, fitting the profile of someone who might commit a crime, the presence of a mask should be an acceptable means of building probable cause.

 

However, if players go around, masked 24/7, chain-robbing vehicles, that's a roleplay quality concern instead. But it's not something that should have a specific rule against it. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Finn

[PAPPAPRICE]

What if someone is wanted can they still be masked 24/7 if this gets approved?

 

[Chuckles]

Epidemics are often seasonal or periodic and imposing ooc statute over something that's more of an aesthetic problem is of little significance in comparison to the real problems. Saying that there's no interest in introducing more micromanagement then introducing a poll of three contemporary solutions (aka restrictions) is contrary to that. Immersion seems to be the key talking point here but there's a lot more hang-ups on immersion than this. It doesn't really bother me because nametags are a tool used to identify someone anyway.

 

Treat it as reasonable suspicion if there's cause, but if there's not, leave it be. Lower the draw distance on nametag visibility so that you don't have people closing in on you just to get a look at your tag. I agree that it can be excessive at times but picking and choosing when something's a problem to culture is sort of intolerant to other concerns that have been previously voiced, I don't want to mention these for fear of derailing the topic but I'd say a lot are being overlooked.

 

A lot of people probably mask up for fear of being identified through distance or through their nametag. I seen a couple of recent reports where players were identified through the roof of a vehicle by a helicopter because of an automated emote, it's these little idiosyncrasies that introduce a degree of paranoia and bad faith in any and all interactions we go through on a daily basis.

 

I think the foremost focus (or takeaway) from this thread should be used to construct a new topic of discussion:

 

How much do you think this server does, or should replicate the Californian culture? I know FM and the continuity team hold people to two completely different standards so it'd be cool to see a united stance on the issue so we know (as players) where these 'cultural' issues can be addressed or enforced. Because if the case here is simply cultural, or misappropriation, then it'd need to be universal before changes are to take effect.

 

For example, is it alright for certain (civilian) entities to take from British subcultures but it isn't okay for criminals to take from others?

 

What I think is needed is clarity on the overall problem more than minor issues like these to be sold as serious problems.

[DLimit]

On 3/22/2023 at 11:33 AM, Martyn said:

 

If there's ICly room to abuse a law, that's on the law makers. Define the law properly to the point where there's no room for abuse, it's not really rocket science no offense. I also find it a little wierd to decide to go down the IC route only to then not deal with the IC consequences of said law. You might as well not have gone the IC route and created OOC rules right away. I wish we could just leave things IC for a change, if cops start to fuck with too many people due to a potential mask law just let people protest, let them use these puppet-senators that don't need to be elected and are put in their position of authority by administrators. Maybe they can actually put some work in, instead of using their position of power to create harems by influencing gullible female characters and indulge in other questionable shit. Don't take away entire storyline and plots because you've got some teenagers upset they can no longer walk around like Snake eyes from G.I Joe. I'm personally looking forward to it, along with all the potential debates and drama that can come from this. I'd even like to see some kind of in-character referendum where law makers and other political characters can be given some time to sway the public through debates, social media posts, public appearances and the likes of that. Political roleplay in general can enhance things on the server so much more than it does in its current state if only we were to utilize them more on important subjects without a management veto on anything that could potentially impact people. 

STOP SPEAKING SENSE!

[mj2002]

On 3/22/2023 at 2:16 AM, honey. said:

I don't agree with removing the "Mask_etc" above the head when they're used because fact of the matter is people will intentionally and unintentionally metagame the names. It will happen, no matter how great a player is.

 

How about if you wear a mask, the distance from where you can see the character's name greatly reduced? Like, 1-2 meter or something? That's going to prevent a lot of metagaming.