Politics and Government Revision

[H04X]

This might become a lengthy read but it's important nonetheless.

Edit: I've added two tags: important and context. If you can't be bothered to read through it all, I've marked the paragraphs that are important to the topic, and marked context paragraphs that are added so you can get the full picture. 

The question [important]

When the city council was introduced in 2020 there was an active participation in local politics by the community. If Bobby had issues with running his business, he could reach out to councilman Spencer to help him. However, the magic to this genre of role play soon faded away. I've been trying to figure out what drove the system in 2020 for a few months now by looking for major changes that were made to how this scene fundamentally operates. 

Was it the clear district lines? Was it the electoral reforms? Perhaps just rose-tinted glasses? Or just the fact that it was a new addition for legal and illegal role players to delve into?  Well...

"Let there be light", and there was light [context]

Up until 2020, there wasn't really anything. Occasionally, I could spot 1 - 2 procurements on the old gov site, but aside from that it was no man's land. Some effort was later made to push for a more engaging system, I remember seeing the early days of both the democratic and republican parties. This all changed when the LFM of the day executed the server's very first (and very last) mayoral election - Oswald Halford (R) vs Charles Galloway (D) vs Malikah Saleh (I)! The community was on edge... friendships ended, e-relationships broken off because Oswald Halford said marriage is "traditionally between a man and woman". No one knew what to expect until..

Oswald Halford becomes the first elected mayor of Los Santos!

A whopping 395 votes, what a turnout for the first ever "democratic" election. The council could now get to work. But hang on... what CAN they do?

The shift [context]

Aside from an occasional anti-smoking laws or budgeting, there wasn't a lot of space for real politics. The system failed to deliver a strong government and changes were needed. The upgrade from city council to state senate happened due to the council being limited to impotent ordinances while everyone (including both the community and councillors) wanted significant changes (eg. SHAFT reforms, penal code changes, etc). This decision was a hit or miss. During the shift, the composition of legislature went from 6 to 10; this was a prominent modification for many reasons. However, things seemed to be O.K. for the most part. When someone needed some change to statutes, they would directly reach out to their favorite senator and, by the weekend, a bill would be lodged. Ah, the unregulated lobbying days... There was still some activity residue from the council days wherein the community would follow the endeavors of public officials and draft opinion pieces. But the second server-wide election (and first state) came. How did that go?

A very narrow election, leaving the senate with a 5 - 5 split.

The 2nd session and ANOTHER shift [context]

The total votes (at least that's officially reported) stand at 902. That's over 2.2x more votes than in the first iteration. Things looked fine for the most part. There was active media coverage, state officials rained bills down the chambers. Major statutes passed through, finally cementing the effectiveness of the senate. But some mistakes were made and the faction still inherits the repercussions made then, and later during the year LFM halted any future elections. This was a huge blow to the faction and motivation began to trickle away. There was also a call to stop every e-procurement which was equally damaging. Political role play as a whole slowed down like Biden before he approaches a flight of stairs. This virtual embargo lasted some time and was ultimately overturned by LFM. There was also some issues with the faction leadership at the time and I'm not going to publicly disclose details of that incident because I'm in no position to do that (to sum it up, vrb was removed and ultimately I was put in charge). 

I was dedicated to address as many issues as possible. I admit, I may have bit off more than I could chew and some of the decisions we collectively made as leadership could have been done differently. But nonetheless, I stayed dedicated. I made it my priority to improve inter-factional relations (with both the legal and illegal scenes), to introduce new ways to get involved with the government, and to make the faction feel less adversarial. Early in 2022, with the help of BaileyG and Moe, we held a long anticipated election. But it felt off.

The 3rd session [context]

The election held in May was very stressful to manoeuvre . Turnout was at a legitimate 542 votes and, for the first time ever, we broke the split; the GOP secured 6 seats while the DEM claimed the other 4 (everyone is allowed to form their own conclusions as to why this wasn't a split). While this election still performed 1.4x better than the very first one, roughly 360 votes were lost. This irked me for many reasons. There may be less bills introduced than before, senators are no longer shadow characters. You can often catch them at events, at cafes or just in public (depending on which senator, maybe somewhere even worse...). Over 85 bills introduced this session, only 2 of them were held on forum; the rest were all in-game public events that anyone could attend. This is a significant improvement from before, one that LFM also wanted to see for quite some time now. But lately I've noticed something that really overshadows all the good.

The Problem [important]

There's a real problem with how the community approaches politics nowadays. In the past, disagreements weren't any less common but they were kept In-Character. For instance, when the democrats decided to abolish the death penalty, over 40 law enforcement officers signed a petition, calling the governor to exercise veto powers (spoiler: he didn't). Or when over 30 people signed an endorsement document to designate a portion of Little Seoul as "Little Tokyo". These are incredible and seeing the community get involved really gives me butterflies. Once again, the effectiveness of the senate was reinforced. The problem isn't when people disagree with what senators do; it's when people pursue Out-Of-Character venues. It's become a norm to simply shit-talk in private and to belittle involved parties, and that saddens me. We've always encouraged In-Character response to govt. actions, be it through strike action, full-blown riots, condemnation letters, legal challenges. Only the sky is the limit. I believe this is due to a disconnect between senators and the community, another issue that's on my radar and the cause of this thread. There's a lack of involvement all across the board.

The Jenkins H04X Report [context]

Further, I believe this issue is the side-effect of a flawed electoral system that's been looming around since the beginning of this scene. Political role play has significantly improved since then, but we're still using a proportional representation system. Now, what makes for a good electoral system? Good question! Political scientists have been trying to find the right answer for some time now, but it really boils down to the following:

Stability - does the system produce a stable, functional government?
Proportionality - does the system produce a government that accurately represents a range of viewpoints?
Voter choice - do electorates have the choice of a range of viewpoints? 
Maintenance of a link between representative & geographical constituency - is it simple to understand who the representatives are, and ensure accountability?

Looking at this list, it's clear to see where the system fails to produce a sustainable political role play scene. While there's some choice during those elections, there really isn't a lot of the rest. With the help of @Hugh-Gi-Oh, we've been working on theorizing a new system that could reignite it all. Allow me to explain..

Proposed System [important]

This all brings me back to the conclusion that I'm trying to draw from this thread. This is a really simple electoral system, one that even little Timmy can understand. First and foremost, let's get the elephant out of the room: geographical constituencies (aka. district lines) will be coming back. Los Santos County will be divided into 10 segments to form the senate. Since population is really hard to gauge on a role play server, we're going to make the districts equal in terms of role play activities. That means, for example, Little Tokyo and Little Seoul could be in different constituencies because both of those areas are highly active. And the second elephant... instead of holding general elections for all 10 seats, we will be conducting special elections. Special elections will be called by the secretary of state only during a vacancy. Vacating a seat is only possible through impeachment, prosecution of a serious crime, or lack of activity. This is a system we use in Liberty City as well and it helps us by giving ambitious and dedicated members basic protection from losing their seat unless they truly mess up In-Character. However, there is one tiny problem.. in a global 1v1 election, using our traditional D'Hondt method 51% of the party votes will mean 100% of party seats. But we've come up with a solution. With the help of LFM, there will be an electoral register onto which people will have to sign up before they're eligible to vote. In the registration, they will also have to specify which district they'd like to vote in, eg. District 32. When election time comes, only those will be eligible to cast a vote who registered for that specific district. With this in place, we will have more in-game voting, something I've been wanting to see for quite some time now. That means you and your friends will be able to visit ULSA, or the State Capitol, or any other polling station to cast your ballot. 

Hypothesis [context]

Now that we've identified what major changes were made in this type of role play over the years, we need to figure out how further changes will affect the system. There's a really good thread written by Eriks that I'd like to use as reference. There are three very important factors that directly affect this genre: activity, knowledge, and motivated players. There is no real incentive to do anything, which makes political role play all the more daunting. The aforementioned system puts emphasis on retaining members who are motivated. Knowledge can be easily obtained. Historically, we've had to put our most dedicated members up against someone who had the OOC backing of dozens of people which undermined the entire purpose of an election. We are going to rectify that. 

The problem we currently face is that senators are assigned a random districts (i.e. district 29, 31, 32, etc) without any geographical constituency to correspond with it. This creates a disconnect between government characters and those who are simply seeking to participate. Furthermore, it also eliminates the problem where parties have to produce 20 candidates to run in a general election, which will ultimately create major discontent. 

Shameless Plug [context]

I am very passionate about political and governmental role play, always exploring new venues. Recently, the state government announced state-funded grants and scholarships for student characters. We also unveiled a sanitation procurement which was awarded to a Tokyo Strip company. From organized crime factions to ULSA, SAGOV will always provide role play to anyone. But sometimes it's hard to do that when there's a lack of interaction between the community and government characters, which I'm hoping to rectify with the new system. I don't think many people even know that we have our own dedicated forum and Discord server where we announce every single step we make as a faction, including vacancies.

The End [context]

Why did I make this long-ass thread? Because. And because I want to get public opinion. This is all just my perspective of things and having been involved with this genre of role play for so long, for all I know I could have all the researcher bias. I'm making this all public because there is no political role play without the community's engagement. If I want to spark things up once again so it can thrive, I won't be able to do it by only discussing it with a select few people in tucked away channels. It goes without saying, if anyone has any suggestion, criticism or anything in between, please reach out. I'm always very happy to help out anyone with getting involved, just send me a message in DMs, on either forums or @ me in gov Discord. I have over 12k notifications so friend requests or simple "yo"s usually get buried deep in my inbox - please start a dialogue if you'd like to see change done. Don't just sit around and complain about a lack of improvement. 

A Final Note & Thank Yous [context]

I don't often write things like this (even though I should be...) so I'm going to seize the opportunity to thank everyone for their continued support. They all know who they are, no need to publicly embarrass them @Zani @Hugh-Gi-Oh @Sidewinder @HerrFalcon @NexusExodus, and everyone else in the SAGOV faction. I sometimes have these moments where I'm on the brink of just giving things up but the warm fuzzy feeling I get from everyone in the faction keeps me level-headed and focused. So thank you. 

Edited December 9, 2022 by H04X

[NexusExodus]

God bless Oswald Halford

[Kappaurel]

I think district lines will be very good for the roleplay, allowing players to know who to go to when it comes to political representation.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Kappaurel

[disnep]

Love the in depth history!

 

My take from this topic is as any, go for it. Political roleplay has always been hard to produce and keep up. Those who engage in it know of the various issue, some where even mentioned here. I could go into it, but it wouldn't really solve anything as it based on every individual players perspective and reaction to certain events. Those who have senate/political characters knows the aftermath of a controversial bill they may support or propose and the affects of it. As a friend of someone with such a character it was difficult to see what they went through, anyways....

 

What we can or rather should focus on is what we can change without the need for a perspective shift. Districts are an amazing idea and even basing them on activity pools opens up avenues for so many scenarios and development opportunity simply based on where you like to roleplay. It will give a meaning to your character's home community and how they represent themselves within it or not if they prefer that. Such a system could naturally help players establish an identity as well. A character with an identity is a character that will always been fun to play (imo).

 

My only criticise of the proposed is to instead allow full choice regarding which district you can vote in. It should (somewhat) be based on where you live. However, do not restrict it to only the sole district where the property is listed, but instead let them choose from a circle of districts around them. It could help get people to reach out to their senator giving them essentially roleplay for free and I think it would boost that community feel (Not sure if that is realistic, I do not know much about districts and how they work).

 

Secondly, I really like the IC news surrounding politics. 1870 (from recent memory) is probably my favourite articles. Each topic that covers news like that gives my character a topic to converse and think about, which can easily be turned into development, especially when you are trying to craft a long lasting character.

[H04X]

6 minutes ago, disnep said:

Love the in depth history!

 

My take from this topic is as any, go for it. Political roleplay has always been hard to produce and keep up. Those who engage in it know of the various issue, some where even mentioned here. I could go into it, but it wouldn't really solve anything as it based on every individual players perspective and reaction to certain events. Those who have senate/political characters knows the aftermath of a controversial bill they may support or propose and the affects of it. As a friend of someone with such a character it was difficult to see what they went through, anyways....

 

What we can or rather should focus on is what we can change without the need for a perspective shift. Districts are an amazing idea and even basing them on activity pools opens up avenues for so many scenarios and development opportunity simply based on where you like to roleplay. It will give a meaning to your character's home community and how they represent themselves within it or not if they prefer that. Such a system could naturally help players establish an identity as well. A character with an identity is a character that will always been fun to play (imo).

 

My only criticise of the proposed is to instead allow full choice regarding which district you can vote in. It should (somewhat) be based on where you live. However, do not restrict it to only the sole district where the property is listed, but instead let them choose from a circle of districts around them. It could help get people to reach out to their senator giving them essentially roleplay for free and I think it would boost that community feel (Not sure if that is realistic, I do not know much about districts and how they work).

 

Secondly, I really like the IC news surrounding politics. 1870 (from recent memory) is probably my favourite articles. Each topic that covers news like that gives my character a topic to converse and think about, which can easily be turned into development, especially when you are trying to craft a long lasting character.

Thank you for the feedback! 

The idea I had for the districts is to let everyone choose where they'd like to register. People are naturally going to register for an area where they usually role play or have some sort of connections to. Hard limiting who can vote in which district is a bit of an issue, both from script and efficiency perspectives, which in turn would lower turnout again.

LSNN has held monopoly over the media for quite some time, it's always very exciting to see new groups emerge because it's a new perspective on current events. 1870 is no exception - I enjoy reading the articles as they come out. People tend to forget the role of the media in politics, to which I say... it's the Sun wot won it!

[Boland]

Remove all admin intervention from politics and it'll actually be worth taking seriously, if you have a unanimous decision overruled OOCly, kinda encourages not giving a fuck about it. Other than that it's nice to see people are still investing their time and energy into the political RP.

 

Edit: Also, nice thread, was a good read.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Boland

[NexusExodus]

19 minutes ago, Boland said:

Remove all admin intervention from politics and it'll actually be worth taking seriously, if you have a unanimous decision overruled OOCly, kinda encourages not giving a fuck about it. Other than that it's nice to see people are still investing their time and energy into the political RP.

 

Edit: Also, nice thread, was a good read.

Nail on the head. The only thing that may ever actually need FM oversight is guns and drugs, considering those are huge server economies and can mess up the gameplay loop of the server. Everything else should /not/ matter or be controlled by staff. It's not a good simulation of democracy if everything can be permanently overturned, therefore the simulation is not fun.

[Mecovy]

1 hour ago, NexusExodus said:

Nail on the head. The only thing that may ever actually need FM oversight is guns and drugs, considering those are huge server economies and can mess up the gameplay loop of the server. Everything else should /not/ matter or be controlled by staff. It's not a good simulation of democracy if everything can be permanently overturned, therefore the simulation is not fun.

this, senate rp feels dry.. cause there is no impact at all, no side can really politic as they're unable to reliably make an impact.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Mecovy

[H04X]

39 minutes ago, Mecovy said:

this, senate rp feels dry.. cause there is no impact at all, no side can really politic as they're unable to reliably make an impact.

Despite some admin red tape, the senate still has the power to pass laws that do make an impact, eg. change the penal code, allow tint exemption, change gun laws [SYG]). What I think we lack is a pool of dedicated people who aren't afraid to put out some controversial bills, like the death penalty or something. And that is due to all the things I've outlined in the thread. A chunk of the community stopped following politics and it produces a less-than-interesting legislative agenda. What I'm aiming to achieve is to restore faith in the system and this sort of rp as a whole so impact isn't just done, it's also seen to be done

Edited December 11, 2022 by H04X

[oli.__]

16 hours ago, Boland said:

Remove all admin intervention from politics and it'll actually be worth taking seriously, if you have a unanimous decision overruled OOCly, kinda encourages not giving a fuck about it. Other than that it's nice to see people are still investing their time and energy into the political RP.

 

Edit: Also, nice thread, was a good read.