The absurd amount of hostility between LEOs and criminals

[Mistery14]

1 hour ago, mj2002 said:

 

I think this is very important to highlight. This is an area-specific issue. There's a reason why a certain type of player slowly edges towards roleplaying outside of the city, because it doesn't feel too far detached from reality out there.

 

That's true I think. As someone who does both LS and county RP I can see where this applies.

 

In the county it feels like things happen more organically for some reason - There was an instance where my illegal character (A poacher) was hunting, and a Ranger called him up because the Ranger suspected my character's vehicle to be stolen since it was left unattended off the trail, which it wasn't, but my character hid his weapon and went to talk to the ranger and there was 0 hostility. The discussion that followed was probably one of the most natural ones I had experienced, even though my char isn't especially fond of law enforcement.

 

The Ranger probably had their IC and OOC doubts, my char had no hunting license, was in full hunting gear, and was out of the trails. Every box was ticket for illegal hunting - But he didn't have a weapon on him and even though questions were asked about it, it was followed with a discussion, they talked about the local wildlife, hunters, and local events, and that was it.

 

Yeah that one situation is specific to me, but I wish there was more of this happening, not because I think my RP is so great or anything, but because it's these kinds of interactions that make illegal and LEO RP interactions interesting. because it's not just about "talking to a criminal", it's talking to a person before all, even if the doubts were there it was just a regular human interaction.

[Zerosum]

4 hours ago, HaminLord said:

…. I put up with the intention of figuring out why this very mentality is so prevalent and makes people just live and breathe dissing and constantly arguing and dissing the other side of the coin.

If you look at the root of what caused that is part of the fact that LFM and IFM are not wanting to drive standards and back down so that they “don’t cause conflict”. It’s not an isolated incident. I’d say the issue we have has stemmed from a lack of direction. A lot of these issues have been allowed to progress to where we are because the server is trying to people please over having strict enforcement of standards. We’ve become a live and let learn 10 times before finally acting. Then the double-edged sword is that when they try to clamp down, which they do try, the same people begging for higher standards are now complaining about how this is just a game. Im not sure how to fix it either. Admins have a tough job. I wouldn’t want to do it. Just my two cents. 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Zerosum

[DLimit]

Big difference between a veteran criminal attempting to be "polite" to evade being searched and arrested compared to the veteran criminal that simply hates Law enforcement's guts, to the core, after spending years upon years of abuse in a jailhouse or prison.

Same applies to younger gang members that either shout hatred to the police or remain silent in fear.

For all the "Good" videos that you see of criminals interacting with police, there are the "Bad". Personally, I find the I.C. part of it all fine, on the most part. The OOC toxicity, however? Not as good.

Trust in the Police has decreased in the past decade, as-well... it seems pretty realistic, in my eyes: Do Americans trust the police? | Pew Research Center

In U.S., Confidence in Police Lowest in 22 Years (gallup.com)

Edited August 20, 2022 by DLimit

[Mecovy]

 

The perks of having a house that blocks south central from my view, i can sleep peacefully.

 

i rp both a criminal char and a legal char, parts of the city at this point are just no goes. Crime's too much, felonies don't feel like they matter. It ain't down to any particular faction (rip the idea of civilians using vespucci beach for jetski businesses tho), but rather the desire to always be doing something criminal. Houses being broken into in each neighbourhood at 2-3 houses a night, can't walk anywhere on foot because you'll either be harassed or robbed.

 

Hostility forms out of frustration. LEO's vs Criminal's frustrations will always be at a boiling point as both groups are by their very definition "enemies". Civilian's hate on criminal's because they can't catch a break. It's the million dollar question they're asking police IRL, is how do you solve this?

 

I'll get laughed out for saying this, but gangs/mafias/MCs... less focus on crime. More focus on just being a group, hitting bars and getting wasted, doing victimless hooliganism with your crews instead of rolling 4 deep trying to rob someone. LEOs, SD does this a lot I believe with OSS, but try form "connections" with people in gangs. Speak to them, do the cliche push of trying to get them back in school, or hell just throw some dice and remove that idea of cops are always cops, and criminal's are always criminals. IRL it aint black or white, hence how gangs still survive.

 

Also bring back RICO or some way for SD/PD to actively work to shutting down factions if they're too reckless w/ what they do. It creates an environment where people need to be careful, shifting their focus to valuable crime rarely, instead of petty crime constantly. 

 

This experience coming from my mob character. I've had him for like 2 months, he's still yet to attack anyone, yet to rob anyone, yet to even harass anyone. Instead? Backroom drug deals, racketeering and spending time just kicking buckets w/ his crew, things like camping trips, bar crawls etc.  

 

1 hour ago, Zerosum said:

If you look at the root of what caused that is part of the fact that LFM and IFM are not wanting to drive standards and back down so that they “don’t cause conflict”. It’s not an isolated incident. I’d say the issue we have has stemmed from a lack of direction. A lot of these issues have been allowed to progress to where we are because the server is trying to people please over having strict enforcement of standards. We’ve become a live and let learn 10 times before finally acting. Then the double-edged sword is that when they try to clamp down, which they do try, the same people begging for higher standards are now complaining about how this is just a game. Im not sure how to fix it either. Admins have a tough job. I wouldn’t want to do it. Just my two cents. 

I've said this to LFM many times in my services as a legal faction leader. The FM's aren't there to spoon feed people, they aren't there to provide "direction". They aren't faction leaders, they're oversight to make sure the rules are being followed. If your faction leader can't give your group a direction, or can't organize? Well then they're a shit faction leader, no two ways to say that. 

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Mecovy

[hamin]

1 hour ago, DLimit said:

Trust in the Police has decreased in the past decade, as-well... it seems pretty realistic, in my eyes: Do Americans trust the police? | Pew Research Center

In U.S., Confidence in Police Lowest in 22 Years (gallup.com)

Of course, no denying that. Again, its not that I am here asking everyone to hug it out and adore each other, its just that what I feel when playing IC, and what I see and hear from other people is that this isn't about not trusting someone or their institution and group.

It's more about how each sides ultimately hates each other beyond belief during the majority of situations because of an indebted mentality that ends up downward spiraling the common and average interaction between criminals and LEOs, or at least from the things I've seen and lived through - Is it also like that in real life? Might very well be, and yet even so no matter how deep the mistrust and disliking of police/criminals are, I'm still 100% confident in saying that they are people with real identities who view each other as people, while here on the server it tends to be that people (Not all, of course there are a ton of excellent roleplayers that this doesn't pertain to) view each other by their borderline affiliation or the very basic and flattest explaination of their character's development, i.e a Gang cop or a Crips/Bloods gangbanger. And when that happenes, you end up having so much less depth into the relationships that form and expand in real life, hence the copious amounts of both IC toxicity which to an extent also passes onto the OOC field with people only wishing to fuck each other's roleplaying experience up.

 

Again, you might be right and I'm very wrong- That's just my opinion.

[mj2002]

1 hour ago, Mecovy said:

They aren't faction leaders, they're oversight to make sure the rules are being followed. If your faction leader can't give your group a direction, or can't organize? Well then they're a shit faction leader, no two ways to say that. 

 

 

FM still has the ability to push things into the wrong direction. This means, in the right direction as well.

Edited August 20, 2022 by mj2002

[Jedai]

2 hours ago, DLimit said:

Big difference between a veteran criminal attempting to be "polite" to evade being searched and arrested compared to the veteran criminal that simply hates Law enforcement's guts, to the core, after spending years upon years of abuse in a jailhouse or prison.

Same applies to younger gang members that either shout hatred to the police or remain silent in fear.

For all the "Good" videos that you see of criminals interacting with police, there are the "Bad". Personally, I find the I.C. part of it all fine, on the most part. The OOC toxicity, however? Not as good.

Trust in the Police has decreased in the past decade, as-well... it seems pretty realistic, in my eyes: Do Americans trust the police? | Pew Research Center

In U.S., Confidence in Police Lowest in 22 Years (gallup.com)

Distrust in the Police is high yet you will still find people actively talking to them and being good mannered individuals towards them. Even see the youth snapping pictures with officers who have a good rapport with the community.

 

I am a strong advocate that it’s an excuse to point at the mistrust of the Police nationwide as the only basis for peoples characters to take some of the illogical actions that they do.

 

As I and even some others pointed out previously, things feel very cop and robbers in South LS because the general civilian population is lower in comparison to other areas where the Police is likely to respond/have a presence in. 
 

My general problem is that the ratios between hardened criminals and those that’ll act out in fear and self preservation are skewed heavily towards the former and it creates this weird atmosphere where it feels like people are compelled to flow the pact and all

be the hardest stone cold killer who’s only moment of weakness is when the drugs are no longer giving them bonus HP. 
 

Overall like @HaminLord has said. Not EVERYONE is like this, just like how not every cop is a robocop looking for action but you do come across these people and it’s in human nature to remember the bad things more than the good

[Trupiano]

FM needs to do more then their definition of "oversight". While a hands off approach that allows RP to flow completely freely is preferable and sounds great, it's not what we're getting. While there are areas that should be no go for some because of crime, players shouldn't be avoiding entire areas of the map because of RP quality. FM shouldn't just be actively enforcing the rules and attempt to improve quality, they should be proactively doing these things. 

 

It feels like FM just waits for issues to reach a boiling point before they get involved and I think that plays a huge role in the hostility between LEO's and criminals. It makes everyone bitter, Criminals have complaints about LEO behavior and nothing gets done until it hits server managements radar. This leaves criminals feeling like LEO's get preferential treatment. LEO's have complaints about criminal behavior and the same thing happens in reverse. Everybody is bitter, each side writes off the other as being the problem (When truly its both) and ultimately the server suffers because RP stagnates more and more.

 

 

[DLimit]

2 hours ago, Jedai said:

Distrust in the Police is high yet you will still find people actively talking to them and being good mannered individuals towards them. Even see the youth snapping pictures with officers who have a good rapport with the community.

These youths probably aren't active gang members, but kids that just play basketball in the hood, which is a forbidden concept unless RPing as 16+ on this server.

You really do get shunned trying to actively form relationships with police, in the hood, if you're involved with gangs. People won't want to associate with you, or may even punk you out for doing that, as they're now seen as potential informants. You'll have 1-2 cops in a hood that gang-members will say is "cool", but they won't go out of their way to interact with them. It's more of a "Kay, I'll say something to get this man away from me" type of mentality.

One of the "cool" cops in my hood, whom I respected for being lenient with people over petty things, lost my trust when he started sniffing my coffee cup as a "joke" implying that I might be concealing alcohol in the cup, then proceeded to try to interrogate me into providing him with intel on a person with a warrant against him. I don't even associate with the "good cops" for that reason... they only want to be your friend for intel, and that's why it's shunned upon, in many hoods, to go out of your way to converse with police. The older heads warn the younger heads about this, and if they fall for the bait, then it's on them.

EDIT: This is my experience in Black hoods that are predominantly Caribbean and Somali, by the way. Unsure of how other ethnic gangs intermingle with police.

Edited August 20, 2022 by DLimit

[Jedai]

2 minutes ago, DLimit said:

These youths probably aren't active gang members, but kids that just play basketball in the hood, which is a forbidden concept unless RPing as 16+ on this server.

You really do get shunned trying to actively form relationships with police, in the hood, if you're involved with gangs. People won't want to associate with you, or may even punk you out for doing that, as they're now seen as potential informants. You'll have 1-2 cops in a hood that gang-members will say is "cool", but they won't go out of their way to interact with them. It's more of a "Kay, I'll say something to get this man away from me" type of mentality.

One of the "cool" cops in my hood, whom I respected for being lenient with people over petty things, lost my trust when he started sniffing my coffee cup as a "joke" implying that I might be concealing alcohol in the cup, then proceeded to try to interrogate me into providing him with intel on a person with a warrant against him. I don't even associate with the "good cops" for that reason... they only want to be your friend for intel, and that's why it's shunned upon, in many hoods, to go out of your way to converse with police. The older heads warn the younger heads about this, and if they fall for the bait, then it's on them.

 

I know. My point is that there is a lack of community, it's just you're either gang affiliated or you're gang affiliated in South LS. The amount of regular people in these areas are rare and THAT is the prime crux of the problem that contributes to a lot of LEO rpers treating every single South LS resident like a menace to society. There's no consistent variety of something else to make them think differently even though they REALLY should. Police use community policing strategies to be effective against combating crime but those practices fall short because there is no community, it's just a bunch of people that will eventually turned into hardened criminals, who NATURALLY, will not be prone to having these policing strategies work on them for obvious reasons.