Mistery14

IC Consequence. (And the OOC intervention in them) Now, it's a game and a reasonable balance has to be reached between fun and pure realism. But here's what irks me a little: Whenever I see people get ajailed for misidentifying their targets, for example, I think about how a good follow-up to that RP opportunity is missed in favor of OOC punishment. I'm OK to have OOC punishment be handed out when it's needed. But how is one meant to portray a realistic character if they're not supposed to make any IC mistakes and learn from them? Let alone suffer any consequence whatsoever on their characters? Jail is not the only outcome for mistakes. Let's forget about sending characters to jail when talking about consequences. I don't care for bigger jail time. - pretty sure bringing heat to the faction alone by killing a random bystander would get a street-level criminal chewed out, if not jumped by other, more seasoned members for this kind of stuff would be a big enough consequence. Why can't we let things evolve like this IC'ly more often? I think the reason players are getting more and more brazen with what their characters do IC is because they feel comfortable enough with the fact that if they step over a certain IC line, things are more likely to be brought OOC'ly and voided, so they take the risk. After all, the reward is greater than the punishment. We also talk a whole lot about fear RP but only apply it here to a perpetrator/victim. But fear RP has to also somehow translate into one's fear of consequence for their actions too: As the YouTube comments said: "The only thing stolen was his self-esteem". Of course, he likely went to jail for this but the point is that at least he won't be getting several charges of manslaughter because he was smart enough to decide to drop it and not escalate things. The consequences are less severe, but still there. People often miss the point and attribute it to simple poor portrayal on behalf of either Legal RP or Illegal RP only. Apply this video to GTA: World, and this guy would've been way more likely to shoot each of them in the head and loot their corpses anyway. Why? Not because "Ohh IlLegaL rP bAd" - But because the same thing applies to 'Legal RP' characters and their concealed carry who will not assess a situation properly before drawing their gun because the consequences in either case at worst would be voiding the situation. Say someone had a gun and decided to draw it - What if that prompted the robber to shoot all of them when he would've otherwise not fired a single shot? That's what I'm talking about when I talk about consequences. TL;DR: People blame poor portrayal on illegal/legal RP but forget that that 'poor portrayal' stems from a greater lack of proper IC consequence and the unwillingness of some to take responsibility for their actions. AKA "It's only a video game" when it's convenient, as soon as it isn't convenient, then actions become unrealistic, reported, and punished/voided.

This is a great idea. Having a command like /vbreakwindow would be extremely useful in a good chunk of RP situations. Now I have a pet peeve with GTA World's suggestions, it's the demand for admins to supervise the RP these kinds of situations which is highly unnecessary in my opinion. We're already able to kill other characters without admin supervision. We should, as a playerbase, be considered capable of having our characters break a window without needing an admin watching us to do so. If admins believe they need to watch us because we're potential rule-breakers, they will. We don't need to request them to do so. Essentially, requesting an admin to supervise you breaking into a simple window is going to eliminate every single RP scenario possible that require you to do things quickly, as response delays are understandable, but inevitable. Here's a hypothetical scenario where you're being chased: You run from your pursuers and see a car. It's locked BUT! The engine is running. What do you do? Well, you break the window, go in, drive off, right? Nope. You can't. You can't stall RP to allow for admins to respond to your request, hell if you stop to RP they're going to catch up. And you can't halt the RP yourself for a scene. You're IC and you're remaining IC. Too bad, they caught up now and your ass is getting beat/put in jail if the pursuers were cops. That's how you absolutely ruin an otherwise good feature. This is nothing against the admins themselves, but I'm sure even they can agree that not everything needs to be supervised, even if the intentions are good, it'll render the feature unpractical. Huge +1, but -1 if it requires administrative supervision.

By sensitive are you referring to the segregation in that time-period? Because yeah I can see it becoming an issue for some players who might not want to deal with these kinds of subject-matters when playing. The good thing is, although it is very much a part of history, thankfully it's a game and if that ever proves to be an issue we can always 'cool it' through rules. In fact there's a lot of things we don't RP in current-times GTA W even if some of the things and subject matters we banned still happen in modern times. So I don't see it being much of a barrier since most people don't really go into a 40s/50s RP server just to go and RP these kinds of things to begin with.

As someone who was also underaged once I can say that even as an adult those ads are annoying as hell. Like, we can all agree that no one really cares if you ERP at the end of the day, nothing wrong with it unless you're being a weirdo about it, it's whatever, just don't announce it to the whole server. It's just not right especially because a good chunk of our playerbase is probably underage anyway. There should be ways to filter out mature or ERP-related ads. +1.

Detailed Description We can already place down fireplaces and such. I thought the addition of further placeable objects would be pretty neat. This could either be done through a menu, or hell if a menu doesn't sound good - Since we already have a dumpster looting system, why not have those spawn in dumpsters at random for people to collect and use for their RP? Maybe you want to build a lemonade stand? A spot for you and your buddies to hang out at? Organize a picnic? A charity event? A small camp for hunters to gather at? Maybe put together a very rudimentary shelter for your homeless character to use using wooden pallets and chairs? Maybe you're dealing drugs, and standing up all day to wait isn't so good for your character's knees so you plop down on a good old monobloc chair? Relevant Commands/Items Here's a list of object additions into this system that could make this worthwhile: - Wooden Pallets. - Oildrum (and/or its fireplace variant) - Plastic chairs (Or 'monobloc' chairs). - Any crappy wooden/plastic table, or hell, fridges that can be placed upside-down to use as a table. - Tent(s). - Couches (the really crappy ones you'd expect if it was sitting outside). And whatever the devs feel might be worthwhile to add. This is just to paint the picture and to set a basis. How will it benefit the server? Obviously, this wouldn't include every object, and people will still have to buy World Points in order to do anything more intricate when it comes to decorating outside. This is a pro or a con depending on how you look at it. This would bring more life to the server, maybe entice people to roleplay outside more, go out on hiking trips, throw house parties more, just generally be outside. As for the elephant in the room for most suggestions: Abuse is inevitable, no command/feature/item/weapon/vehicle/object is exempt from being used to troll the server. To combat this if it really is an issue, a limit as to how many placeables you can have/place at once can be set. Finally, yes, anyone should be able to remove/steal the furniture placed outside. Therefore it would be temporary in a way and if it clutters the street it can easily be removed, it can even bring some excellent RP opportunities for public works (or police for unlawful obstruction of a sidewalk) for example.

I think people understand your post just fine given they were able to bring counter-arguments to the points brought up. What I think people fear is change of any kind that goes beyond the scope of what they are used to because what they are used to works currently for them. Bringing fight or flight into the picture brings uncertainty. They're not guaranteed to leave that robbery with their lives in the first place as things are right now. Having one or more factors add up to the already slightly extensive list of possible scenarios that could already make things go wrong in a robbery makes this unpopular. Personally, I'm not against or for having this implemented, not because I think it's bad, but because there are certain things I'm almost sure will not change because of the very nature of the community's reluctance to get out of their comfort zone. And this is definitely one of these things that makes people uncomfortable. Uncertainty. The more uncertain something is, the less likely it is to be greenlit by the community. Sure, this suggestion would certainly add another layer of realism and expand upon the list of scenarios someone could encounter in-game, it's interesting and compelling to think about really. But it strays away from the current dynamic of GTA World. This isn't to criticize the community or the suggestion, it's just an observation.

Let's set the definition; non-Gang illegal RP refers to anything illegal that's outside of the scope of the Los Santos street gangs. - This can range from a small group of corrupt police officers operating together, to a plotting cash-in-transit employee, a small-time dealer operating alone or with a friend, a homeless person with a shoplifting and car-stealing habit, a couple of white-collar criminals who occasionally get together to plan heists. You get the gist. Personally, I think the concepts are definitely not absent but are pretty rare, and should be explored more by players. Not because Gang RP is bad, but because it seems like the default on GTA W when people think about crime and illegal RP. Sure, Joining a gang is a good way to begin illegal RP and to expand your character's sphere of influence of course, but being in a gang also imposes restrictions you might not see when you're operating on your own or with a small group and in my opinion, should not be the default of illegal RP. For example, your actions aren't tied to the leaders of a gang and their own interests, but rather a collective decision where you get to explore more areas in roleplay. The other part of the problem might be a slightly more controversial topic to raise: Guns. Or rather, the lack of them. I'm not talking about being robbed or scammed here - This is a whole other can of worms, I'm talking about suppliers themselves being extremely scarce outside of the scope of gangs, because gangs bring the highest profit, outsiders are trouble to them because each new customer is a potential snitch or bring them bad business, therefore they default to supplying gangs. How can we fix that? So, what do you think about it?

My interpretation: "A) That you cannot shoot a player at all without typing out a /me of you doing so. B) That you can shoot a player, but cannot shoot them into death-state without typing out a /me first." Your interpretation: "It is powergaming if you use a /me such as the following: /me shoots John Doe through the head, killing him." If it's not guesswork for you, why did we have this exchange of 'interpretation' as to what the rule might mean? Is your definition the objectively correct one the server intended to convey to us, or did we just go through guesswork together about what it means by giving our own subjective interpretation? If it is the correct one, why don't we have anything to refer to in that same rule set that points to this being the correct meaning? Because there are no such things. See, that's exactly the kind of thing that would be very useful to have in the rules themselves. Clarification to refer to when we're not sure. "Roleplay through a /me to shoot a player with the result of the player ending up dead in the process. Example: It is powergaming if you use a /me such as the following: /me shoots John Doe through the head, killing him." It'd leave no room for interpretation, or guesswork whilst still remaining plain and simple.

It's slightly off-topic sure, but it is still an issue that's very relevant when it comes to robbery rules I think. We've added a lot of restrictions to things that could either be elaborated in the main ruleset or dealt with IC with enough care put into it. The thing is, you've just proven my former point about players doing the guesswork about the rules. You shouldn't have to be interpreting what it means, and I shouldn't either, neither should the rest of the playerbase - Because others will do the same, and that rule will have different meanings for them. The message should be clear so that everyone can understand it, and if we can't have it in detail then it could be concise sure. But we just can't have vague rules. And adding clear rules to old and vague ones don't make a fix.

It's not crazy to suggest balance is needed, and I completely agree with you on that point. But it's crazy to suggest we need more specific rules in place for simple snatching and muggings when the frequency of those don't measure per ever hours but every few minutes, making it essentially impossible for the staff team to respond to each and one of them in time when other things have to be taken into account. Point being; We don't need more specific rules, we need generalized but detailed rules that convey a clear message. The current rule set, and I've said it many, many times, is too vague in what it's trying to convey to the playerbase. If the rules are supposedly clear, what does this (Powergaming section) means?: A) That you cannot shoot a player at all without typing out a /me of you doing so. B) That you can shoot a player, but cannot shoot them into death-state without typing out a /me first. I have no idea. And I've been here since 2020. And, no, I've never seen someone use /me to shoot anyone on GTA World. The scripts and automatic /ame texts is where it's at in reality for a good majority of the players. Why? Because it's the norm driven by years of the same unclear rules, new players follow the example of older players, which is still incorrect and is part of the reason why poor quality RP persists even with the added rules. Again, this sort of thing applies to a lot of other rules that haven't been changed/elaborated on for seemingly years yet new ones are being put in place to patch them up. Rules aren't meant to be guessed, they're supposed to drive a clear point. People ignore rules they can't understand or have to do guesswork on.

I'm gonna go ahead and throw my 2 cents on the table. As a non-American I'm not gonna pretend I know much about America and their social issues. But Americans aren't some alien species coming out of some wormhole from outer space. They're carbon-based human life just like us. Why do we have to make it so complicated for people to act like people? Just like any country or society there's going to be individuals, now, individuals make their own choice based on their own life circumstances. Why is it so hard for GTA W to conceive the possibility that on a server trying to replicate society as closely as possible, people are going to people? Let's take Europe. (Yes! in Europe, also contains humans, much like in America) for example, if you ever thought of Paris as "The city of love", you're dead wrong unless you literally pay your way through the illusion. Paris is a stressful, high-speed, stinking boring shit-hole for the average person living there. The same goes for any major city most of the time. And yes, this absolutely applies to LA, and yes, even Hollywood. This is what we call the reality of an urban environment. Here's the real kicker now: We even made it so that in-game, you're able to IC'ly pay your way through the illusion of safety. Hire Gruppe 6, Bobcat to protect your home much like people do in real life! Why not standardize more IC interaction as opposed to OOC ones? Why does it have to be almost entirely done through OOC rules? Why can't Tyson Jenaveous see an Iphone Ifruit and decide he's going to snatch it because he's an opportunist? Why can't Carter John, the young indoctrinated skinhead crackhead, decide he wants my wallet and promptly acquire it through gunpoint? And why can't Yasmine Ghalifa, the Facebrowser influencer, take out her legally obtained CCW weapon and defend herself against said people? It goes both ways really.

Just my two cents here, something I addressed before in a constructive thread that mysteriously vanished from the forums entirely without warning. Anyways, I think the act of parading players through those is extremely counter-intuitive. It incites OOC harassment towards the player in some cases, which, yes can also be reported - But it would be better to not give people the 'ammunition' to do it in the first place. Furthermore, context. Context goes out of the window after some time, whoever reads that record sure is going to have a scoff, but it will hinder the affected player in the long run. So I think admin action should be concise and to the point. As a player, I don't need to know that Jamavous Quinton took his airport lease Dilettante up a ramp and did a 360 in the air while in a police chase. So, what do I need to know as an exterior observer? 1. "Player X has broken Y rule continuously. Refer to section 3 of the rules, come back when you have been familiarized with them." - 45 min ajail. Not: 2. "Player X has done this very specific set of things, it's actually not good because *I* don't like it, and when I told you to not do it you did it anyways. So look at this guy, everyone! Look at how much this player sucks! Don't be like this!" - 45 min ajail EX 1 objectively and concisely states the rule the player has broken and directs them to the appropriate rule set. ✔️ EX 2 is vague, subjective, antagonizing and does not help the player know what rule they broke, and only serves to paint them as a shitty player to the server. ❌ There's a reason admins should talk to you before handing out the punishment. It's not about "Just don't break the rules." - Yeah, obviously. But when you do break the rules, what you should take away as the player isn't that you're being paraded to the entire server to point and laugh at you. It's to understand what rule you have broken and why you have been punished for it, so then you look up the rules and you're done with your punishment you can learn not to do it again. It might not work all the time to fix a player's behavior, but it sure as hell more likely to work than with whatever this atrocity of a system is. Unfortunately, this is likely to just never really change because it's already deeply-rooted into the server and the issue isn't being taken seriously by anyone.

You know what? At face value, this is absolutely not a bad suggestion. It makes sense and would absolutely expand upon illegal roleplay. But let's be real, ultimately the majority of GTA:W is not ready for this and/or mature enough to not abuse it in a way shape or form for maximum gain. Same reason we can't just walk into a shop and buy a lawnmower for 10,000 for the RP. We're not ready.

I get it's frustrating to read that people are wanting some perks to become free when doing that could potentially hurt the server financially slightly, but.. It's not for the sake of simply having things for free. There's an underlying reason behind it. Because a lot of donator "perks" contain actually very useful tools, some are even essential in, say, bringing your business to light in-game. (Hence why people who do not have donator packages reach out to those who do to advertise for them!). In the case of dogs and cats? Meh. You can keep it behind a paywall. It classifies as a cosmetic in game since they do not provide any use unless involved with LEO roleplay, pure and simple. It's not going to make or break anything when it comes to what you are able to bring on the table with RP. I'm going to be making a really crappy analogy here but, it's like going to the store and buying a tool set because it's the only option to get the specific tool you want, except that a whole bunch of other stuff you're not going to use are included in that tool set. You're paying for it, but you're going to use 2, 3 tools out of it. Then a month later those tools break, and you have to buy the same tool set in order to keep using those specific tools. One could say "Why not include some of those useful tools in individual packages If you really, really have to keep them behind paywalls?" Yeah -- After all the incentive to buy them is always going to be there either way, they're essential to some people. But if I'm being realistic I know deep down that it will not happen because the packages probably generate that income more efficiently.

You definitely make a point there, I'm talking about already, well-established factions. People just seem to put the two in the same bag. Characters/factions who die off not a week or two after being made is the problem, it's throwaway characters being purposefully used as throwaways with little to no depth that are the problem. Those are the ones that will be causing you the real issues.

Finally. Exactly, what's this misconception that being in the hood is an automatic way for you to get robbed or that you have to bang? I have a character you could consider fully legal, she was living in Chamberlain Hills for months. Never had an issue except some dude not taking "no" for an answer when trying to get her number, that's all. 1. Make it clear you're a local. 2. Make it clear IC'ly that whatever is happening is none of your business. 3. Be respectful. Don't get mad over shit that's considered normal in the hood. 4. People. Get to know them. If your character smokes, buy from a local dealer and be consistent, no business with the opps. 5. Don't call the cops in front of other locals. If a local gives you trouble, bring it up to the others. 6. If you do talk to the cops, don't give a statement in front of the locals. 🤦‍♂️ Being a non-affiliated local in a gang neighborhood doesn't have to be you running full sprint past everyone to get to your apartment before anyone even has a chance to interact with you. That's sus as fuck and will get you, your place, and your pockets ran thoroughly. Trouble will always come eventually, I was lucky, but this will sure help not to dive head first into that trouble.

Sadly accurate memes aside, +1 if it helps in any way.

That actually sounds really cool.

I get your point. This doesn't sound harsh/unreasonable. I agree with you that if you don't want to get punished, don't break the rules. The point I'm trying to make isn't that "my ajail was unjustified" or that "I should be treated differently". I broke the rules and like everyone else I received a punishment for it, end of story. My problem is the public parading that goes along with the punishment, not the punishment itself. Because that parading stays on your record, and makes it look infinitely worse than it really was. Say you're an admin reviewing someone's record, you don't know them: "Common courtesy, unrealistic portrayal, trolling." - 20 minute ajail. Or "Acts like they are in a GTA:O lobby and refuses to stop to RP, running around Vinewood with a bat, is not here to RP at all, dresses like they're about to pull a heist." - 20 minute ajail. Which of the above helps you determine what rule a player has broken objectively years down the line? Both yielded the same result except one of the above fails to be concise about what rule the player has broken, and harms them more than necessary in the long run in painting them in a certain, subjective light. In reality, that admin sit was probably pretty boring and the event itself was forgotten about five minutes after by everyone involved. It's simply over-exaggeration for the sake of parading that player on everyone's screen, nothing less. Just unnecessary.

Been GTA:W for years. Actual years. I've learned that the best approach is to report people on the forums with recorded evidence for the best results. Reporting someone in-game will lead to quick judgement and action. I did the mistake of trying to fight fire with fire myself yesterday, and it has cost me an ajail. The way it was handled was fine and punishment was justified, but GTA:World has a big problem with parading rule-breakers by putting extravagant reasons into their punishment so that the whole server can point, and laugh for a few seconds and move on with their day. It's entertainment, in a way. It shouldn't be. The problem is that those extravagant reasons that were used to parade you around and paint you as a bad player for a few minutes stays on your record for ever, and will be taken into consideration for everything that you will ever do after that, again, for ever. Context is out of the window, long after your punishment is done - If you were in otherwise good standing for years, it no longer matters. What matters is that one line of reasoning for your punishment, undermining everything else. It's not about what you did good for a few years, it's what you did bad for a few minutes. Your fate is in the hands of subjectivity, it's not about the rule you've broken, it's how you were perceived at that moment. Six months later, no one remembers what you did, not even you, you will apply for an official faction, a scheme, an admin position - and whoever reads your record and sees that reason and will go "Holy shit that sounds really bad" and will deny you. When the reality of what actually happened at the time is far more boring than what's written on your record. People will change, their record doesn't. Here's my final two cents and a bit of a TL;DR: I've been co-owner, manager, admin on multiple RP servers. On all of these servers, punishment was concise and to the point stating what rule the player has broken, nothing less nothing more. Parading is unnecessary and only hinders the player's future endeavors for improvement. I love the GTA:W Staff team, they do an excellent job and are otherwise very competent. But this parading does more harm than good for everyone involved.

This might sound a little dumb but I was thinking just sticking with the default props if we were to keep more trees around? Surely they don't look all that bad. I definitely agree though, looks great with those trees around.

Or replace them with something that costs less performance. (Easier said than done, I know) but even though my system runs Rage and GTA V well these days, I was stuck with a really crappy potato PC for years, I can understand how frustrating it can get to lag every time you look a certain direction, or go some specific place. To most people it's not a big deal, so of course they'll say "Fine for me! Don't change it." when they're the ones rocking top-of-the-line systems, but for those that feel the impact of the performance loss it is a pretty big deal for sure.

Offering: $145,000! I will take it immediately.

The suggestion format is off on this one, but it gets the point across. Injured/Dead state is meta-information. People abuse it all the time. I'd say that the /injuries command is good enough to determine whether or not someone is dead. If someone wants to confirm a death, they should have to go up to a body and type this command to gauge whether or not the injuries are survivable. Will people still double-tap? Absolutely. Will removing the injured/dead state information provide people a slightly better chance of survival? Also absolutely. +1

Username: John R. Comment: Fellow serviceman here.. It's all pretty to see a few people care about us vets here, but at the end of the day it always seems like it's swept under the rug and forgotten about. Forget about the money for a minute.. Where are the therapists? Where are the doctors to take care of our buddies that got their lungs fucked from the burn pits? Why is there no apparent plan from the state to make sure that the support our vets get goes beyond a one-time charity event? My VA card feels like dead weight at this point folks..