“Why did you shoot in broad daylight with a ton of cameras present?”

[RufioCas]

1 minute ago, LICE said:

That's not what I'm arguing, but okay - I'm arguing that we don't have any way to RP the consequence of ignoring cameras while committing a crime.

"It's a busy city, are you going to try and suggest at 5pm rush hour there is literally nobody on the streets because there happen to be no players online and there yet?" Your exact words. Regardless of that fact, if you're masked up, cameras wouldn't do much either way. So this all boils down to being an IC issue unless you were killed for absolutely no reason.

[Miggs]

fax same with ‘oh why didn’t you wear a mask’

[L I C E]

Just now, RufioCas said:

"It's a busy city, are you going to try and suggest at 5pm rush hour there is literally nobody on the streets because there happen to be no players online and there yet?" Your exact words. Regardless of that fact, if you're masked up, cameras wouldn't do much either way. So this all boils down to being an IC issue unless you were killed for absolutely no reason.

I think you're intentionally avoiding reading what I'm saying. You'll see in my last post I talked about how cops can find criminals who flee scenes even if they're masked by following them on the network of street cameras. We don't possess that, currently.

[RufioCas]

Just now, LICE said:

I think you're intentionally avoiding reading what I'm saying. You'll see in my last post I talked about how cops can find criminals who flee scenes even if they're masked by following them on the network of street cameras. We don't possess that, currently.

according to who? you? its not as easy as you're desperately trying to make it look like my guy, there are tons of unsolved crimes, including tons of unsolved recent murders and beatings.

[L I C E]

1 minute ago, RufioCas said:

according to who? you? its not as easy as you're desperately trying to make it look like my guy, there are tons of unsolved crimes, including tons of unsolved recent murders and beatings.

Where did I say it was easy? I don't want to argue with you, but you are rather desperately trying to put words in my mouth. All I said - was that an essential tool in finding people who perform crimes like mentioned in the OP doesn't exist. You shoot someone at 2pm-6pm on a main street before the EU-American overlap where we get like 700 players, all the police have is a body with COMBAT PISTOL 51 DAMAGE HEAD x3 and a couple of shell casings on the floor. Admins have to sort of pick up the slack by policing these sort of crimes otherwise they'd be rampant.

[Naeno]

52 minutes ago, Blowin' Hollows said:

In daylight? Yes.

Cameras rolling? Yes.

Seemingly unprovoked? Yes.

Many criminals aren't exactly the brightest, especially when speaking about low level street gangbangers. Killing in daylight and with cameras surrounding the area happen far too often. In fact, I'd argue it's actually difficult to commit a shooting in modern day LA without some sort of camera picking up either the shooting itself or the escape (be it through traffic cams or even just someone on their phone). I don't really see too much of an issue with committed crimes on the server following this (outside of some egregious examples). If there are cameras there is more of a risk that your character will get caught and will have to pay the consequences, that should be the fear factor. I believe it's also unfair to dictate what crimes can and cannot be committed just because the time of the day. It's important to remember that many players are only capable of logging on during a certain time frame. Some may only be able to play while the server is daytime, and others may only play during the server's nighttime. Crime doesn't strictly follow a time schedule. 

 

However, its no secret that crime on GTAW is much higher for the size of the city and its player population than most real life cities. All sorts of crime are exaggerated and happen far more often than they would realistically. The issue with letting a player kill another player unprovoked is that everyone else will want to be able to do the same. While I do understand and have met various characters who have had the proper development to make you understand that they will kill on a whim, it's still a can of worms that is probably best not opened. Killings are already prominent enough and letting just about anyone kill another player with no real reasoning is probably something that's best left unexplored. 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Naeno

[Bandolero]

12 minutes ago, LICE said:

That's not what I'm arguing, but okay - I'm arguing that we don't have any way to RP the consequence of ignoring cameras while committing a crime.

I think a lot of people that do commit crime in this server more time than others get caught. With the ability of forensics and good policing. You’re making it seem like all criminals get away, stop that. You’re giving out a false sense of how it is on this sever when it’s by far from the truth. Down grading SD and PD also telling people who aren’t particularly in tune with the illegal side a really shit view of how it definitely isn’t.  

[RufioCas]

1 minute ago, LICE said:

Where did I say it was easy? I don't want to argue with you, but you are rather desperately trying to put words in my mouth. All I said - was that an essential tool in finding people who perform crimes like mentioned in the OP doesn't exist. You shoot someone at 2pm-6pm on a main street before the EU-American overlap where we get like 700 players, all the police have is a body with COMBAT PISTOL 51 DAMAGE HEAD x3 and a couple of shell casings on the floor. Admins have to sort of pick up the slack by policing these sort of crimes otherwise they'd be rampant.

The main problem with what you're saying is admins use this excuse for almost every shooting. "Why'd your character decide to shoot at x in broad daylight?", and they try to paint it as "unrealistic" even though it's perfectly realistic. The possibility of eventually being found is always there through casings, I'm not sure if you're entirely educated on how the casing system works.

[marbella mondays]

After reading through this thread, I have some pointers to weigh out, and my conclusion with that.

 

• Los Angeles doesn't exist in our world, Los Santos replaces it. Los Santos in logical perspective, would be the homeland of street gangs that have generational hoods to this day; East Side Clover, Primera Flats, Florencia, White Fence & Clanton 14th street. All of these hoods listed, are active prior 1940, with the exception of Florencia which was formed around the 1940s.
• Yes, crime happens in daylight... gangland murders especially. But there's a issue as to why people complain about it, and a issue to why people argue for it. My two cents on this? I'll be neutral and give my opinion on both sides.

1.  Deathmatchers make street gang factions just to beef, and get a YouTube DM video up which causes many people to not like the crime in daylight situation, especially when most of the people who do it ignore the realistic factors of the matter.
2. Second point? Some administrators handling the situation might not have proper knowledge on the topic, since nobody knows everything even if they pretend to. I, myself, have roleplayed in every concept over the years, my best concepts? MS-13, 18th Street, Florencia 13, Sinaloa Cartel cells, and Irish mobs. So some leniency to an administrator could go a long way, and try explaining the situation to them would help. If you feel their action on your report wasn't justified, take it to a staff report.

My conclusion on this  is, I firmly believe that miscommunication, lack of knowledge and somewhat a bit of ignorance could play parts in all of this, and it could easily be avoided by either trying to explain the situation to the handling admin, if they do something you don't like, take it to a staff report. The other one? Make it so people who make street gangs with the intent to DM and act the fool get harsher punishments, over the ones who make gang factions and roleplay properly. 

 

Because honestly, at the end of the day? Committing crime in broad-day happens, so it should be judged on a case by case basis.

[bonk]

3 minutes ago, Naeno said:

Killings are already prominent enough and letting just about anyone kill another player with no real reasoning is probably something that's best left unexplored. 

I agree with everything you said, but the video example I linked with me saying them shooting unprovoked wasn’t my justification for “shoot anyone you want whenever”. It was just me solidifying my point that even in such a dire situation when a man is going ahead with the intention to kill two cops, they don’t care about the time of day or whether if CCTV is rolling. I’ll edit it to mitigate any further miscommunication.