Official Status

[.Pluto.]

2 minutes ago, Sicario said:

You understand that the current system in place completely discourages joining factions? That's already a huge issue. Why join up a faction when I can get the same guns, drugs, etc. as long as I create an application with a few of my buddies? Sure, not everyone has time to be a leader. But those who put in more than a handful of hours could arguably manage a Discord and a few members. 

 

 

I'm not sure how its done here but on LS-RP it would be based on experiences with factions with those in FM and members of faction management would spectate candidates at random to ensure actual quality and not fabrication through screenshots. 

  

You were an admin on LSRP for some time (half a year, maybe even more?), and I think you're the one who should especially be aware how the toxic environment there was, regarding the factions. It's just a "status", it just creates a mentality where people are fighting for the one thing (the official status), and that's where the toxicity starts. This system works quite well, and I don't understand why this system discourages joining factions? Faction doesn't need to have an official status so you can be able to see if they're good or not. I'll take Philly Connection as an example. No official status, because there isn't a system like that here, but you can clearly see they are fucking good when you look at their faction thread. I don't understand how this system can COMPLETELY discourage joining factions. Having official faction system would do that, because people would mostly want to join the official factions because hey have their shiny status. This way we have balance. 

 

3 minutes ago, Pathway said:

i was in an official faction on LSRP and most of us duped drugs, were DMers, openly had wallhack/aimbot, ect, so clearly that spectating didn't work. LSRPs system was based on wether or not you're friends with admins or if you're an admin yourself, it had nothing to do with roleplay. This will happen eventually if we add this system. Maybe not straight away? But inevitably the official system will result in favouritism.

And if you're discouraged to join factions because they don't have a shiny official status, you are the problem. I don't see how an official status would fix that either, official statuses on LSRP just resulted in gatekeeping and people only letting their friends into factions / only interacting with other official factions because they thought everyone was beneath them.

True to everything you just said over here!

[MickeyO]

20 minutes ago, Pathway said:

completely arbitrary though, I can probably name a flaw in every faction if I RP with them for long enough. It will breed elitism and will inevitably be given to people that don't deserve it like on LSRP. Unless the team making you official has gone undercover in ur faction for several months, there's no way to tell if people are rule-breakers or if they're not suitable. There's no surefire way to make sure the wrong people don't get this status, so why create this wierd status in the first place.

There's a total of 0 factions that are 100% perfect, if a faction is given this official status and someone new comes to the server and dislikes that factions RP? They will think the server is ass because of that, since that faction has been named the all-glorious gods of RP. Nobody should be held to standards like that, a leader cannot ensure 40+ people all have great rp standards.

agreed

 

42 minutes ago, arkan said:

I really do not think the elitism argument against this idea should be taken seriously at all. No matter where you are in this community there is always going to be a sense of elitism in regards to either whole factions or groups within factions.

 

Rewarding long standing factions that present a high level of roleplay quality is not only the right thing to do but it’s only going to help the illegal rp scene here by showing people what having a good standard is.

also agreed.

 

 

The illegal rp community will have to figure out what the fuck they want eventually 🤣 without the 100th illegal faction discord.

[Sicario]

21 minutes ago, .Pluto. said:

You were an admin on LSRP for some time (half a year, maybe even more?), and I think you're the one who should especially be aware how the toxic environment there was, regarding the factions. It's just a "status", it just creates a mentality where people are fighting for the one thing (the official status), and that's where the toxicity starts. This system works quite well, and I don't understand why this system discourages joining factions? Faction doesn't need to have an official status so you can be able to see if they're good or not. I'll take Philly Connection as an example. No official status, because there isn't a system like that here, but you can clearly see they are fucking good when you look at their faction thread. I don't understand how this system can COMPLETELY discourage joining factions. Having official faction system would do that, because people would mostly want to join the official factions because hey have their shiny status. This way we have balance.

LS-RP Illegal Faction Management was definitely toxic and biased. That's ultimately because of the server's steep decline, which resulted in the urgency of filling positions. Where I think we have a difference in opinion is regarding the systems. People wanted an official faction on LS-RP for the perks solely. The more guns and drugs, the more power they had over the market. That translated to OOC influence and that's where the toxicity came into play. This system does not reward with in-game perks so it really should not put the same strain on GTAW as it has to other communities. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Sicario

[eTaylor]

29 minutes ago, Pathway said:

i was in an official faction on LSRP and most of us duped drugs, were DMers, openly had wallhack/aimbot, ect, so clearly that spectating didn't work. LSRPs system was based on wether or not you're friends with admins or if you're an admin yourself, it had nothing to do with roleplay. This will happen eventually if we add this system. Maybe not straight away? But inevitably the official system will result in favouritism.

And if you're discouraged to join factions because they don't have a shiny official status, you are the problem. I don't see how an official status would fix that either, official statuses on LSRP just resulted in gatekeeping and people only letting their friends into factions / only interacting with other official factions because they thought everyone was beneath them.

Umm, excuse me Pathway... Did you consult the official status mentor from across the tracks about your ideas before posting them? 
 

@Sicario I’ve read it again and again I fail to see what an OOC badge has to do with my roleplay? How all of a sudden my “progress” is dictated by some random elitist gatekeeper who has nothing to do with me IC. Why should I listen to random noises from people who hold arbitrary roles bestowed to them by friends? Literally what purpose does their appointed expertise serve when I have my own. When it’s my roleplay, my development and my growth. What is a mentor going to do for me besides add a needless OOC layer to the roleplay. Surely you see that’s only going to aggravate people? I’m in a gang, I got my roleplay going just fine and I don’t at all experience the “dwindling” quality of roleplay you’re describing. An official status would motivate me forward? It would put me off the game. I’m here to roleplay, and follow the story of my character and see where it goes. I’m not here to play a pissing match with OOC net bangers who want a big E-peen with a super special tag exclaiming how “official” they are.

[Trupiano]

10 minutes ago, Sicario said:

You understand that the current system in place completely discourages joining factions? That's already a huge issue. Why join up a faction when I can get the same guns, drugs, etc. as long as I create an application with a few of my buddies? Sure, not everyone has time to be a leader. But those who put in more than a handful of hours could arguably manage a Discord and a few members. 

 

 

I'm not sure how its done here but on LS-RP it would be based on experiences with factions with those in FM and members of faction management would spectate candidates at random to ensure actual quality and not fabrication through screenshots. 

Ok and how does an official status help this issue? I'm not trying to be hostile, I genuinely don't see how an official status would solve this issue. Sounds to me like IFM needs to crack down on quality in general as well as reevaluate who actually needs a thread. We aren't where we were a year ago, The pandemic basically doubled or tripled the amount of people playing in some time zones. That means double or triple the amount of active people willing to and wanting to lead factions. Now we used to seem pretty restrictive about what ideas were allowed through, it seems now a days that all you need is five people and backstory which has only diluted the faction pool significantly and a down turn in quality.

 

In my eyes official status just breeds toxicity and elitisms. In theory it's supposed to promote the best RPers the server has to offer as well as reward them for their work. In practice it doesn't work out that way. We've seen this playout in the MC and LCN communities where in both communities certain factions were given unofficial "official" status as either dominate club or dominate family in San Andreas. In both situations those factions were able to make pretty solid arguments as to why they should receive the unofficial status. However, when it came to executing these roles IC they just unrealistically terrorized every other faction in their sub-genre and anytime someone would complain about them being hyper aggressive they'd just point back to their unofficial status as a get out of jail free card.

 

That's how I see an official status playing out, a few factions carving a place out for themselves at the top just to shame everyone else below them. Regardless of if those official factions are in the right or not.

 

 

[liq]

The current system works fine.  It bottlenecks all sorts of factions to the point where one won't exist if it's completely subpar. "Standard" is relative to whatever you consider it to be, and everyone's got their own pet peeves from short emotes to how a character's speech reads out loud.  The one flaw the current system has is you're gonna need to have factions, so some less than good factions might pop around every now and then.  Just report them.  IFM is full of administrators who actually role-play and I doubt they won't listen to a reasonable complaint.

 

Official status doesn't help because all the perks you're traditionally used to are given upon creation (an actual faction lost, /f, in-game ranks, etc).  Supplies go through the supplier program in general. Faction usergroups can't happen on IPS.  What else do you need to literally roleplay?  It's just a title for the sake of there being one.  I don't deny the fact that promoting a handful of factions to "official" essentially serves as the benchmark for quality role-play and what's expected on GTA World, but it's a two way street with way too much to lose if the wrong mindset becomes promoted.

[Sinatra]

I think this discussion holds exclusive to illegal RPers. I've noticed the vast majority of individuals who completely disagree with the proposal don't even RP in the illegal side of the server. Although I think valuing LEO RPers and legal RPers is nice, the change wouldn't really affect you. 

[Dano]

Just now, Sinatra said:

I think this discussion holds exclusive to illegal RPers. I've noticed the vast majority of individuals who completely disagree with the proposal don't even RP in the illegal side of the server. Although I think valuing LEO RPers and legal RPers is nice, the change wouldn't really affect you. 

Agreed, It isn't meant as a shot or jab at legal role-players, but it simply just doesn't involve them. The system focusses on illegal factions. As Sinatra mentioned, the people disagreeing are mainly legal or LEO role-players who may not have the in-depth experience most people agreeing do. We are trying to up the standard with illegal role-play. For illegal role-players, there isn't ranks or sole factions such as LSSD or LSPD that cap role-players to join those specific factions and grow. The illegal sector is open, people can create factions and not know what they're doing. We're attempting to focus on creating realism, show people what the standard is and direct people to joining the spotlighted factions so that they can grow. Instead of people applying to open a faction without experience and be on the same level as a faction that was opened a year ago that should hold server history in terms of where they were located, what type of heritage they hold, names can carry weight, etc.

[Joseph_Ganza]

When this server first launched and official was a thing, there were zero issues with supply and demand or gate keeping the respective type of RP. I see no issue with pinning what IFM thinks is the best at the top of the factions section, or a user group to go with it. But don’t attach drug/gun supplier or any other IG gimmicks as these factions are already well established.

[Dano]

15 minutes ago, liq said:

The current system works fine.  It bottlenecks all sorts of factions to the point where one won't exist if it's completely subpar. "Standard" is relative to whatever you consider it to be, and everyone's got their own pet peeves from short emotes to how a character's speech reads out loud.  The one flaw the current system has is you're gonna need to have factions, so some less than good factions might pop around every now and then.  Just report them.  IFM is full of administrators who actually role-play and I doubt they won't listen to a reasonable complaint.

 

Official status doesn't help because all the perks you're traditionally used to are given upon creation (an actual faction lost, /f, in-game ranks, etc).  Supplies go through the supplier program in general. Faction usergroups can't happen on IPS.  What else do you need to literally roleplay?  It's just a title for the sake of there being one.  I don't deny the fact that promoting a handful of factions to "official" essentially serves as the benchmark for quality role-play and what's expected on GTA World, but it's a two way street with way too much to lose if the wrong mindset becomes promoted.

I think people are still not getting the main idea. But you are catching on in your second point about a benchmark. We are looking to create a benchmark, yes. We are looking to create something where factions can create a goal and eventually go down in history or else what is the purpose of all the role-play. It is to follow server history and hold a name as a gang or mafia for example. 

 

The current system promotes role-play, hands out weapons, drugs, etc. Sure it does. But it doesn't create long-term goals in-game and out of character. Take this as an example, what stops me from role-playing a Sheriff's Lieutenant? Why can't I create a character and role-play an active Sheriff's Lieutenant if that's what I want to do.

 

Our issue is people can come in and instantly create a faction, disregard a faction that has been open for two years and become a mafia boss, captain, or made guy instantly with no regard for history or the server's criminal underworld. Whether it be gangs, mafias, or anything, this is the issue we deal with in the illegal sector. If people are bored or don't feel like role-playing, they create something alone and act like they rule the server. 

 

If it were this easy, I would fulfill my exampled dream of becoming a Sheriff's Lieutenant and make a new character, even though I didn't get it in the actual faction.