Official Status

[Sinatra]

37 minutes ago, Certified Lover Boy Jola said:

Illegal rpers; I think this will be great for our own sector of rp

legal rpers;

 

[Legate]

56 minutes ago, Certified Lover Boy Jola said:

Illegal rpers; I think this will be great for our own sector of rp

legal rpers;

 

[Ink]

My thoughts as someone who has grappled with the "official" faction system for over 10 years on all sides of the equation:

 

I have started illegal factions and carried them through to official. I have joined official factions. I have joined unofficial factions. I have been in amazing factions which never got the nod to be official. I have been in mediocre factions which were official and clearly resting on outdated laurels from months ago. I've been an administrator responsible for picking official factions. I've been illegal faction management.

 

I've seen the "official faction" issue from all sides. The only side I'm not bringing to this table is as an active criminal RPer on GTA:W, so I personally value the input from those who are criminal RPers.

 

That being said, I don't really see what this actually accomplishes? What are criminal RPers missing right now from there not being an official system?

 

From what I understand, and I may be wrong, the current system on GTA:W makes it so that any faction can start, and providing they have a good concept and IFM is down with their pitch, they get what is essentially "official" status right away. They get hooked up with supply and with a faction in-game. All the raw materials you need to accelerate your efforts.

 

What does the LSRP-esque system of official do for anyone? It's a stamp of approval, sure, and there is definitely a lot of prestige associated. But from what I've seen, all it really does is create an "end goal" for factions, everyone's thirsty to show off so they can get "official." I've seen so many times that factions get official and then they lose so much of their steam because, like, the dragon's slain. They win. They got the big prize. What I saw most is that "official" status was just a system which OOCly delineated some roleplayers as being "better" than others. It was a lot about elitism, showing off, and thinking you're better than other people.

 

In the old SA-MP scripts, "official" status was important because of how it interacted with the script. Drugs and guns were usually only injected through the "official" factions, and "official" was more important about a level of trust the server's administration was giving to a faction to appropriately lead the drugs and guns market. We don't have that here on GTA:W, we have a more organic environment which lends itself to RP.

 

The real world doesn't have "official" criminal factions versus "unofficial" ones. It has the ones who succeed, and the ones who don't. GTA:W has that here. If your criminal faction kicks ass and gets shit done, it will rise above and wield influence and infamy. What are you asking for, a special OOC golden ribbon to slap on your RP to magically OOCly make your faction better than others? If the new up-and-coming guys have a better hustle than you, project better influence in the city than you, and outplay you, they shouldn't be held back because you have an "official" tag and they don't. 

 

For how much criminal RPers like to act like they can RP with the rolls and punches, and how much they cast shade on "legal" RPers for--well, fucking everything--it's really surprising to see how many people come out here to sully their own moral high-ground as superior RPers by asking for what is essentially a glorified "employee of the month" award to give them special IC perks in exception of other RPers. 

 

GTA:W is supposed to be a roleplay sandbox. The new kids on the block are limited only by their connections and manpower, and it's up to the veteran criminals to uphold their position as the top dogs through wit, cunning, intrigue, aggression, and business acumen, not because you have friends in the admin team who voiced up for you to get a special in-game faction chat and special exclusive gun distribution rights. 

 

I'm glad to admit I might be missing something, but I just really don't see what the argument for "let's make official factions a thing" is besides "because me and my homies have been running our criminal faction for a while and we want more OOC prestige and to get more OOC benefits over newer concepts."

[Jari13X]

29 minutes ago, Ink said:

 

 

What does the LSRP-esque system of official do for anyone? It's a stamp of approval, sure, and there is definitely a lot of prestige associated. But from what I've seen, all it really does is create an "end goal" for factions, everyone's thirsty to show off so they can get "official." I've seen so many times that factions get official and then they lose so much of their steam because, like, the dragon's slain. They win. They got the big prize. What I saw most is that "official" status was just a system which OOCly delineated some roleplayers as being "better" than others. It was a lot about elitism, showing off, and thinking you're better than other people.

 

 

 

I guess that explains how countless factions lasted over 1-7 years on LS and we lack the same level of longevity on GTA-W.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Certified Lover Boy Jola

[Ink]

1 minute ago, Certified Lover Boy Jola said:

 

I guess that explains how countless factions lasted over 1-7 years on LS and we lack the same level of longevity on GTA-W.

That's not because of the server culture or the individuals putting in the work, right? It's just because of the admins waving an imaginary wand a few months in which says "you guys are really special here's a cookie 🙂" -- that is the only reason for longevity of factions on a server that was founded in 2005, and not the fact that there'll be a higher sample size of committed long-term roleplayers and more faction turnover.

 

If GTA:W lasts 15 years, I'm sure there'll be factions which last 1-7 years by 2035, even without an "official faction" system. 

 

Are you able to give a more substantive argument about how implementing an official faction system which hamstrings younger factions through entirely OOC methods to give a steep unrealistic benefit to older factions entirely determined by OOC reasons? Can you draw the line clearly between how doing that will improve the roleplay for the server rather than just serve to boost the ego of veteran RPers?

 

Can you explain what's lacking from our current ecosystem of a heavy roleplay server where the strength of a faction is determined entirely by their IC actions rather than how much time they spend making their OOC faction threads look pretty?

[Bandolero]

1 minute ago, Ink said:

That's not because of the server culture or the individuals putting in the work, right? It's just because of the admins waving an imaginary wand a few months in which says "you guys are really special here's a cookie 🙂" -- that is the only reason for longevity of factions on a server that was founded in 2005, and not the fact that there'll be a higher sample size of committed long-term roleplayers and more faction turnover.

 

If GTA:W lasts 15 years, I'm sure there'll be factions which last 1-7 years by 2035, even without an "official faction" system. 

 

Are you able to give a more substantive argument about how implementing an official faction system which hamstrings younger factions through entirely OOC methods to give a steep unrealistic benefit to older factions entirely determined by OOC reasons? Can you draw the line clearly between how doing that will improve the roleplay for the server rather than just serve to boost the ego of veteran RPers?

 

Can you explain what's lacking from our current ecosystem of a heavy roleplay server where the strength of a faction is determined entirely by their IC actions rather than how much time they spend making their OOC faction threads look pretty?

Your acting like the "OOC methods" aren't in play here. When they HEAVILY are. I don't get what you're defending here, I doubt it's an ego boost. If your good as something, you have a right to have an ego lmao you're acting like it still ain't happening here.

[Jari13X]

2 hours ago, Ink said:

That's not because of the server culture or the individuals putting in the work, right? It's just because of the admins waving an imaginary wand a few months in which says "you guys are really special here's a cookie 🙂" -- that is the only reason for longevity of factions on a server that was founded in 2005, and not the fact that there'll be a higher sample size of committed long-term roleplayers and more faction turnover.

 

If GTA:W lasts 15 years, I'm sure there'll be factions which last 1-7 years by 2035, even without an "official faction" system. 

 

Are you able to give a more substantive argument about how implementing an official faction system which hamstrings younger factions through entirely OOC methods to give a steep unrealistic benefit to older factions entirely determined by OOC reasons? Can you draw the line clearly between how doing that will improve the roleplay for the server rather than just serve to boost the ego of veteran RPers?

 

Can you explain what's lacking from our current ecosystem of a heavy roleplay server where the strength of a faction is determined entirely by their IC actions rather than how much time they spend making their OOC faction threads look pretty?

Everything you're saying can be said about the supplier status so you're contracting yourself, factions lasting for years has nothing to do with how long a server is up, one faction lasted for three years from 2017, what does that have to do with the server starting in 2005? Im not gonna argue with you either bro, look at the previous comments on the thread, I feel like we're always doing this legal vs illegal saga when we're trying to provide positive change/discussions, honestly I feel like if it doesn't affect you, why have a say in it but I guess that's just me.

 

What is lacking is longevity.

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Certified Lover Boy Jola

[Fuck The Otherside]

Why do non illegal role-players even have a say in half of what this goes on. This vote SURROUNDS illegal role-play and from what I can see a solid 90% WANT official/non-official factions, its too constricting.. 

[Guest]

Y'all need to stop classifying people into what's called legal and illegal roleplayers because it's retarded as fuck. I might have two characters at a time with two different lifestyles, I might be role-playing as a law abiding citizen trying to develop my character and do whatever I wanna do and in a blink of a second I just decide to make an alt character and give an outlaw faction a shot.

 

The fact you're role-playing a civil character doesn't mean you're ultimately classified as a legal roleplayer, same shit goes to those who roleplay in outlaw factions, I mean the fuck a legal and an illegal roleplayer is supposed to mean, I've never heard that shit anywhere else but here so yea, IT DOES AFFECT EVERYONE, if you're role-playing a civil character doesn't mean you're gonna do it forever, people get bored and are always wiĺling to try new things and for sure they can have two characters at a time or even more and it's really their choice, stop separating the community into two sides because it's not really helping.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Guest

[Sinister]

7 hours ago, Uriz said:

Y'all need to stop classifying people into what's called legal and illegal roleplayers because it's retarded as fuck. I might have two characters at a time with two different lifestyles, I might be role-playing as a law abiding citizen trying to develop my character and do whatever I wanna do and in a blink of a second I just decide to make an alt character and give an outlaw faction a shot.

 

The fact you're role-playing a civil character doesn't mean you're ultimately classified as a legal roleplayer, same shit goes to those who roleplay in outlaw factions, I mean the fuck a legal and an illegal roleplayer is supposed to mean, I've never heard that shit anywhere else but here so yea, IT DOES AFFECT EVERYONE, if you're role-playing a civil character doesn't mean you're gonna do it forever, people get bored and are always wiĺling to try new things and for sure they can have two characters at a time or even more and it's really their choice, stop separating the community into two sides because it's not really helping.

Factions here on GTA:W are separated into legal and illegal factions but this is not even the point.

 

I would like to remind people here on this thread to keep it on topic, respectful and please try to show valid points when trying to debate on the topic. There’s people on here that are making great points and there’s people not really contributing to the discussion as a whole.

 

For those that are new to the discussion I would ask you to refer back to the original post and then post your thoughts and opinions.

 

From my conversations with suppliers, faction leaders and faction members it seems that a majority of players are for the system that has been brought to peoples attention. I want to remind people that this isn’t LS:RP and things can be subject to change but the general idea of this appears to be accepted by a vast majority of players who currently have factions which they lead or are contributing to on the server.