Official Status

[Trupiano]

23 minutes ago, Sicario said:

I'm going to point something out real quick. If you notice those who are arguing about having a badge or status to claim some sort of superiority are those with the massive platinum/gold donator tags that had to be specifically added to their forum accounts. That's a little hypocritical, don't you think so?  

Bruh.

 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Sicario said:

I'm going to point something out real quick. If you notice those who are arguing about having a badge or status to claim some sort of superiority are those with the massive platinum/gold donator tags that had to be specifically added to their forum accounts. That's a little hypocritical, don't you think so?  

 

Seriously dog? Please tell me you're kidding....

 

Is that what you got left? Instead of throwing flames at others with that shit how about giving a constructive comment so they might change their opinions about the idea you're suggesting?

 

Henning is right dude, y'all got nothing to answer with but just throwing flames at people calling them either LEOs or "legal roleplayers" assuming they've got no rights to contribute in this discussion, telling people who disagree with y'all to stop spamming the thread and now you're claiming that those who disagree are donators who fear for their color tags to mistaken with yours... Give me a break.

 

 

[orangejuice]

Idk official status always seemed to be given to the factions owned by admins lol, GTA world is good that every faction is equal

[Sinister]

3 hours ago, Uriz said:

 

Dog, let me break it down for you.

 

For pinning certain factions on forums I just clarified my point in the comment above. 

 

Guns and drugs perks will never be a thing dude, it's been said before. If you're leading a faction and in need of resources then get yourself a plug otherwise just don't go for it, if someone is willing to open a faction and lead it they're supposed to know how to get connected, it's nothing but basics of those who do gang/mob roleplay. You don't need an imaginary stash coming down from the sky for your faction to thrive, if you want it to thrive then just do it yourself!

 

Most factions within the current supplier system are plugged, admins do send plugs certain amounts of stash regularly and those who receive their stash are obligated to distribute them as soon as possible as they can't receive the next load for the next time unless they're out of that stash they received at the first time, what your idea is all about inflating drugs amount in the server, same with guns and just turn this into a whole team death match by just getting guns from your imaginary supplier and throwing gang signs on the corner trying to start beef because that might be the only thing left for you to have, keep the supplier system going because it brings roleplay to both street gangs and organized crime groups, most DTO's fight over drugs distribution in real life and once this system you're suggesting gets activated you've literally sentenced every DTO to death, you've also killed the role of the Mexican Mafia in the server and couple of other prison gangs who rely on distributing drugs over the lower street gangs.

 

Having color tags on forums harms no one so go for it, not a big deal.

 

I'm just debating on why this won't work, not even close to spamming.

Let me break it down for you as well in a response since you felt you haven’t been heard.

 

Guns and drug perks are already a thing called the supplier system. I can use the same argument of favouritism about the current system but correct me if I’m wrong, not every faction has a supplier role?
 

They are hand picked, at least when I was granted supplier that was the case. In fact I was told I was picked out of a hundred applications and only a handful of players were picked for the specific roles.

 

What was the decision based off of? I’m not entirely sure, but it seems like it’s from the development of your character story that you were required to write in your application. I can also use the same argument about the current system that several people have used and say the administration team is biased and is helping people they are close to, but that is certainly not the case here at GTA:W. 

 

I have confidence that the administration team here along with faction management is in fact non-bias in their decision making and can include this official status system in a reasonable and fair manner.

 

You speak of imaginary weapon and drug stashes magically fall from the heavens for your faction to thrive but isn’t that already the case currently for some factions? These items are requested and then spawned in so I don’t seem to grasp your point there.

 

If you’re talking about the factory system? Sure there are major loop holes, I’m totally in agreement with maybe having a different system that could stop from people abusing the role just like any other role that can be abused, someone will try to exploit it.

 

Possible alternatives to this could be a faction that is official receives more goods than suppliers or at a cheaper cost. Maybe official factions have the option of being able to receive weapons and drugs in the same shipment? There are lots of ideas that can float around the subject and that’s the conversations I’m looking to have with you or who ever else.

 

I really think the problem is the approach some people have here. Instead of maybe showing alternatives to how we can create a great system, something we can modify to call it our own we instead shame it because of the things of its past.

[Exploits]

 

I still don't even understand what this is meant to improve or achieve. Supposedly we need this because factions today are bad, or don't survive long enough, or aren't motivated to be better or last longer, but ... not everything, or even anything, is meant to be a success story. Nothing mandates or demands that a faction survive X amount of months before qualifying as 'made it'. Did the Jamestown Mafia 'fail'? Would it have 'not failed' or been improved if we had slapped a label on it calling it 'official'? How and why?

 

All of this is ignoring (as OP and others have) the circular issue that factions today, whatever your opinion of quality is, go through an approval process of some kind already. If factions suck then either that process or IFM itself is flawed, and layering on another process which is meant to handpick 'the best' still doesn't solve either issue of these factions sucking or IFM's flaws.

 

Being an 'Official Faction ®' is predicated on so much at it is. Do you honestly think all official factions of the past were always intensely respected by all community members? Can we not honestly recall the endless and persistent circle-jerking in these past communities about which factions did or did not deserve the 'Official Faction ®' stamp? How some factions earning it would 'undermine our great institution of role-play', and other factions not earning it was some sort of slap in the face to its participants, or what the fuck ever? I sure do. The amount of discussion that was, quite frankly, utterly wasted on trying to reclaim, or redeem, or purify, or retain the sanctity of 'Official Factions ®' from 'those' people', or by bringing in 'that group', or promoting 'this kind of role-play' over 'that kind of role-play', instead of just keeping things fun and accessible was incredible, was nauseating, and I wonder how many words I also wasted on these discussions in the past.

 

And what's hilarious to me is the 'fun and accessible' bit. People did complain about this, but there was far more conversation about who 'deserved' these titles than there was in addressing (on LS:RP specifically) the fact that this system would produce months-long gaps where there were no active illegal suppliers or even no official factions of a certain type to be an illegal supplier — literal months where guns and drugs could not be bought, resulting in quadrupled prices or complete product deserts because the last Mafia got shut down and no new one had been selected or met some nebulous criteria yet. We did this to ourselves. We legitimately killed whole sections of role-play for months because we wanted to 'incentivize' 'the best' and 'right' kind of role-play(ers), and not the 'wrong' or 'bad' kind.

 

I really want to repeat that. I know we aren't looking to give exclusive commands and shit, but again:

 

We would wholesale kill entire styles of role-play.

For months.

For everybody.
Because we felt that creating and retaining an ideal idea of what an 'Official Faction ®' represented was more important.

 

It's astonishing what time and hindsight can do, since I really was a proponent of this system and thought it did good. Now I'm aghast by it. And even without giving exclusive commands to these groups, you'll still see a lot of the social toxicity that this produced. Those endless arguments about who deserved the 'Official Faction ®' title instead of discussing ways to improve role-play accessibility for the most common player type: an unhealthy focus on "Who is best?" instead of "How can we help?" Let's just not have the former discussion at all.

 

1 hour ago, Sinister said:

The system proposed creates longevity with factions and makes everyone strive to be better as a whole, experienced or inexperienced.

 

How?

 

Like, seriously, how? How does this make interactions in-game better by any appreciable metric? So a faction that already exists and role-plays is made official. Cool. Literally nothing has changed unless you go on the forum and see their fancy 'Official Faction ®' stamp. If you were role-playing with them, it's because you liked them. If you didn't, that stamp isn't going to change your mind. It also doesn't suddenly make them better or worse role-players. It doesn't do anything. It's just going to create a title that people are going to bitch about, and yet its entire existence is OoC. It's a proud livery for the player who has it and a contentious debate for those that do not. Again, what would this have done for a faction like Jamestown Mafia?

 

The last thing I want are factions and/or faction members to be motivated by an OoC goal instead of role-play for the sake of role-play.

[keep]

Pointless suggestion.

[Sicario]

2 hours ago, Uriz said:

and now you're claiming that those who disagree are donators who fear for their color tags to mistaken with yours... Give me a break.

All I'm suggesting is you shouldn't be using the argument that it is a badge or a tag when those who donated went out of their way to have a shiny massive donator tag put on their name. It's exactly the same argument. That serves no practical purpose but to apply a new fancy color to stand out. It is literally equivalent to any other the arguments made about measuring dick sizes with a "badge" that was not even suggested in the main post. I don't even know why it's being mentioned. 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Sicario

[arkan]

1 hour ago, Sinister said:

I really think the problem is the approach some people have here. Instead of maybe showing alternatives to how we can create a great system, something we can modify to call it our own we instead shame it because of the things of its past.

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Sinister said:

Guns and drug perks are already a thing called the supplier system. I can use the same argument of favouritism about the current system but correct me if I’m wrong, not every faction has a supplier role?

Wrong.

The current supplier system is way different than the Guns/Drugs perks feature you're suggesting within the system you're coming up with. The supplier system that exists on GTA:W in the meanwhile is creating roleplay for every each faction on the server, it helps bringing all factions together and so they interact with each other, which means more roleplay for everyone. Even factions in Blaine County get to interact with those in the city because every faction got something the other needs, so at the end of the day they're going to interact, whether it's gonna end up good or bad they're gonna have a roleplay scene where they might start exchanging stuff or do whatever, lots of options regarding a roleplay scene. 

The Guns/Perks feature does the whole opposite, you won't need to interact with no one because at the end of the day you're receiving your stash from an NPC'd plug that you've earned with literally zero effort IC, you've made no progress to catch on a plug but for the fact you got your thread pinned OOC'ly you're getting guns, drugs or even BOTH as you've stated earlier, which means it's gonna be your call to decide what to get according to your needs. Supplier system is better because each plug is a dude who supplies something specific, which means more and more interactions between factions, which means more effort to put so you get to thrive and gain power/influence across the region you're operating in. 

Don't mix between the two, supplier system isn't an advantage to whoever gets it. As opposite to the Drugs/Guns perks feature, in the supplier system you're obligated to distribute all the stash you've received from IFM, and I mean all of it and not keep a single thing, you don't see that in the Drugs/Guns perks feature because you get to keep all the shit you get, that's favoritism. 

And yes, not every faction has a supplier role, and not every faction shall get it. Getting a supplier within your faction rankings depends on the faction itself, what it is and if it's realistic for that type of factions you're portraying to supply others with stuff. Still doesn't prevent you from getting connected with a plug, all you need to do is stop being lazy and just put a lot of effort into your roleplay and boom, you got it. If someone doesn't know how to get connected, if they aren't experienced enough, I don't think they shall open a faction or lead one, no need to rush they still can join any of the existing factions and learn till they're ready for it.
 

 

27 minutes ago, Sinister said:

They are hand picked, at least when I was granted supplier that was the case. In fact I was told I was picked out of a hundred applications and only a handful of players were picked for the specific roles.

 

What was the decision based off of? I’m not entirely sure, but it seems like it’s from the development of your character story that you were required to write in your application. I can also use the same argument about the current system that several people have used and say the administration team is biased and is helping people they are close to, but that is certainly not the case here at GTA:W. 

Yes, they are hand picked as those factions to get pinned will if the system you're suggesting gets activated which I doubt. Suppliers are being chosen based on their character development, which faction they roleplay in, what type of faction that is and what's its reputation. There are many factors that play an important role in picking a supplier hence why only a few get picked out of hundreds of applications just like what you stated. Opposite to what you're suggesting, you're actually suggesting allowing every faction to exist regardless of standards and only pin those who are good, and after they've been there for a certain time you just pin their thread and give them those features you've suggested which absolutely kills the whole game. You're basically asking for a quantitative test and not a qualitative one. That sounds like nothing but a last man standing match where quality doesn't matter but longevity does. And no, Illegal faction management team would never be biased to picking a supplier because Nervous is one the top of the illegal faction management team, I don't really think Nervous is ever willing to turn the project he founded into utter shit, so yea that's not an option.

 

38 minutes ago, Sinister said:

You speak of imaginary weapon and drug stashes magically fall from the heavens for your faction to thrive but isn’t that already the case currently for some factions? These items are requested and then spawned in so I don’t seem to grasp your point there.

No, it isn't the same thing not even close. With the current supplier system you have to have a valid reason for whatever kind of stuff you're asking to be plugged with. It's a process that simulates real trafficking methods where you have to state how, when and where from your character gets those stuff you're applying to get supplied with by the IFM, it shall be stated in your supplier application for you to gain the rank and get picked, this process helps sustaining quality of roleplay within the server. Opposite happens in what you're suggesting, regardless of how, when and where from your character might get the stash you're going to get by just asking for it OOC'ly, which kills the quality of roleplay that the administrator team is trying to maintain at their best and that's what I mean by magically receiving a delivery of an imaginary stash from heavens. The only factor that would make you unlock the achievement of having those perks is longevity which also kills the quality of roleplay.
 

 

1 hour ago, Sinister said:

If you’re talking about the factory system? Sure there are major loop holes, I’m totally in agreement with maybe having a different system that could stop from people abusing the role just like any other role that can be abused, someone will try to exploit it.

No, you can't abuse your role as a supplier, would never happen. Why? Because suppliers are being spectated at most times, what they do with the stash they get and where that goes is all tracked via logs. And don't worry, tracking someone's logs isn't really that hard, CTRL+F is all it takes, I've also heard it's all on Discord and differentiated by color which means it's not gonna be hard for admins to catch a supplier who's trying to cheat red handed. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Sinister said:

Possible alternatives to this could be a faction that is official receives more goods than suppliers or at a cheaper cost. Maybe official factions have the option of being able to receive weapons and drugs in the same shipment? There are lots of ideas that can float around the subject and that’s the conversations I’m looking to have with you or who ever else.

With giving those official pinned factions more goods than what suppliers or at cheaper cost means you're killing the role of suppliers, by the fact those official pinned factions will get more stash than suppliers at the same to less cost of suppliers means they're going to distribute more drugs than suppliers at a cheaper cost and still make the same to more profit than suppliers, therefore street gangs and those who consume drugs or are in need of guns are going to ditch their plugs and run for those official factions because they're selling stuff for cheap, that makes the equation unbalanced and there's gonna be favoritism for clearly no valid reason.

The fact you're suggesting to allow every pinned faction to choose between drugs and guns without having to explain the process of getting those things are just ridiculous dude, you can't make something out of nothing, those things must have had come from somewhere sold to your character by someone, you can't just vanish for a couple of minutes then come back with 2 Kilos of Cocaine that's not even possible. Not all organizations/gangs in real life smuggle drugs, and only some of them deal with smuggling firearms therefore you get your stuff according to your character development and what type of faction you're roleplaying in within the current supplier system.

 

1 hour ago, Sinister said:

I really think the problem is the approach some people have here. Instead of maybe showing alternatives to how we can create a great system, something we can modify to call it our own we instead shame it because of the things of its past.

 An alternative has to be better, you don't suggest something just because it's different but you suggest it because it's different and more beneficial. I guess you have to look at the whole thing from a different angle so you get my point or to be more specific, OUR point because it seems like all you care for is having faction threads pinned as in to be announced as an elite faction with the addition of offering guns/drugs splattered all among those pinned factions like candies so they have a goal to go for. If your goal of making a faction is to get your thread pinned to consider yourself an alpha roleplayer then you need to think about that twice because that's 0 achievement. If your goal of making a faction is to get drugs and guns just for asking them with having to put 0 effort into getting those stuff then you might want to think twice about opening a faction and maybe give yourself sometime on how to approach a plug and get connected because as I said, those are the basics a roleplayer needs before deciding on opening and leading a faction.

[DasFroggy]

2 hours ago, Sicario said:

All I'm suggesting is you shouldn't be using the argument that it is a badge or a tag when those who donated went out of their way to have a shiny massive donator tag put on their name.

I actually asked staff if the status could be possible without the overt displays, but alas, it is not.

 

While there are certainly perks to be enjoyed when donating, vanity was not one that I entertain. If I could still have the donator perks without the change of name color, it would be an easy choice to discard the purple for a more subtle and humble alternative.