BUYING ANY BUSINESS - Enforce stricter realism on ads

[mj2002]

7 hours ago, Goonbag said:

I don’t see any issue in it?
 

Firstly, what exactly is wrong with buying and selling tags? They’re used on all online marketplaces. 

 

Secondly, what is the issue with using the word “any”? It leaves you open to more bites, which is what you would do in real life. If I owned a used car dealership I wouldn’t say “buying 1990 Subarus” I would say “buying ANY used cars” in order to increase potential sales. People looking to buy any businesses are just looking to see what’s available and make the best decision. Anyway, I doubt any of these people are getting calls because all the businesses for sale on the forums get snapped up pretty quickly.

 

Just seems like a really small problem to need to amend a rule for, should just be handled by admins ig on a case by case basis.

There's nothing wrong with the tag (BUYING), there's also nothing wrong with buying used cars. However, there is something wrong with buying a random business. This is not showing any meaningful sense of character development.

Edited February 6, 2021 by mj2002

[Entity]

I do like the idea of players having to have an actual plan before diving into the business world, but how would this solve the issue that will inevitably come up with transferring niche businesses? It's highly common for people to specifically want to buy a club or a store, but it's very likely that no one will advertise looking to buy a fishing supply store or a mountain bike touring company. Sure, they could advertise selling them and have people contact them but we'd have the same problem happening, just that this time it's from the other side (people are still going in without a plan but rather buy a random business that's for sale instead of advertise it themselves).

[ThatDutchPerson]

Was about to make this suggestions before I saw it here! Huge pro+
 

I hate it when I try to advertise with a legitimate ad and it gets hijacked by “[BUYING] Any bar/stripclub/casino/nightclub, money not an issue”

 

Its Play-to-Win mentality as people who place these ads are there strictly to make money and not create roleplay for others.

 

Disallow these ads!

[Martyn]

I don't really see the problem, people who make these ads will not necessarily actually BUY every single business you offer to them. They make this ad to get as many offers as possible so that they can evaluate each business offered to them and make a well thought out decision whether they want to invest in the property and assess if it'll be profitable and worth their time. It's called being an entrepreneur. This is really a non-problem in my humble opinion. Plenty of examples of people in real life purchasing a business which they have 0 experience in simply because they're confident enough to think they can make it work. Whether it works or not is totally left up to the events that'll unfold in character after the purchase of a business.

 

Never made an ad like this, never will. But I can see why people do, so I'm definitely not in favor of this rule unfortunately. 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Martyn

[ThatDutchPerson]

Here we got the new licenses prices which makes things worse.

 

[maramizo]

It is easier for me to get a business going in real life than it is on this server. That's a plain fact. I currently run my own web development business, fully licensed, paperwork entirely filled by myself. Getting one through PM is more difficult than getting one through my local government.

 

That says enough. If people are saying they're "buying any business", that's for a reason. It's because they're desperate.

 

On 2/25/2021 at 2:34 AM, ThatDutchPerson said:

Was about to make this suggestions before I saw it here! Huge pro+
 

I hate it when I try to advertise with a legitimate ad and it gets hijacked by “[BUYING] Any bar/stripclub/casino/nightclub, money not an issue”

 

Its Play-to-Win mentality as people who place these ads are there strictly to make money and not create roleplay for others.

 

Disallow these ads!

 

If they aren't creating roleplay for others then they're not making any money because others aren't visiting them. Capitalism works, you just have the shorter end of the stick because you can't compete with the influx of demand they're creating.

 

On 9/9/2020 at 1:39 PM, mj2002 said:

Its not the way ads are worded. Its the fact that someone who posts an ad like this clearly has subpar roleplay standards. There is no proper justifiable reason to set an ad out like this. By definition, these characters are unrealistic.

Not true. Businesses can be renovated and reshaped into anything you'd like so long as you have the interior. The interior itself is the issue due to the artificial shortage caused by PM's lowered supply. If I want a strip club, I'll buy your bar, renovate it into a strip club, get the furniture I need, and license it. Clearly my RP standard is fine; I got the business that I want running. 

 

IRL? Just buy a property and license it as a business. In game? Pay three times the price or go through the Stazi as you try to buy your liquor store.

Edited March 2, 2021 by maramizo

[@horiaa]

12 minutes ago, maramizo said:

It is easier for me to get a business going in real life than it is on this server. That's a plain fact. I currently run my own web development business, fully licensed, paperwork entirely filled by myself. Getting one through PM is more difficult than getting one through my local government.

 

That says enough. If people are saying they're "buying any business", that's for a reason. It's because they're desperate.

 

 

If they aren't creating roleplay for others then they're not making any money because others aren't visiting them. Capitalism works, you just have the shorter end of the stick because you can't compete with the influx of demand they're creating.

 

Not true. Businesses can be renovated and reshaped into anything you'd like so long as you have the interior. The interior itself is the issue due to the artificial shortage caused by PM's lowered supply. If I want a strip club, I'll buy your bar, renovate it into a strip club, get the furniture I need, and license it. Clearly my RP standard is fine; I got the business that I want running. 

 

IRL? Just buy a property and license it as a business. In game? Pay three times the price or go through the Stazi as you try to buy your liquor store.

Couldn't say it better.

[Stoned Ape]

On 3/2/2021 at 6:34 AM, maramizo said:

Not true. Businesses can be renovated and reshaped into anything you'd like so long as you have the interior. The interior itself is the issue due to the artificial shortage caused by PM's lowered supply. If I want a strip club, I'll buy your bar, renovate it into a strip club, get the furniture I need, and license it. Clearly my RP standard is fine; I got the business that I want running. 

I believe the problem lies in the people who don't look at it this way and simply put the ad up to get any business to get $$$, this is good reasoning to put up an ad like that but sadly most people who do aren't thinking from an IC perspective but more OOC reasoning of "i will be rich!!1".

[effion]

On 3/2/2021 at 6:04 PM, maramizo said:

Not true. Businesses can be renovated and reshaped into anything you'd like so long as you have the interior. The interior itself is the issue due to the artificial shortage caused by PM's lowered supply. If I want a strip club, I'll buy your bar, renovate it into a strip club, get the furniture I need, and license it. Clearly my RP standard is fine; I got the business that I want running. 

 

IRL? Just buy a property and license it as a business. In game? Pay three times the price or go through the Stazi as you try to buy your liquor store.

That is incorrect. If someone changed a business concept and reshaped the interior to represent a new concept that was never approved by PM - they risk a revocation. You cannot change or reshape your concept to whatever you like. So if you buy a bar and renovate it into a strip club without letting us know, you risk losing it all.

"Businesses may not change from what they were originally requested as without contacting Property Management first e.g. changing a business from a cafe to a nightclub. "

 

I'll address the second point here too, even though it's not exactly the avenue for it.

On 3/2/2021 at 6:04 PM, maramizo said:

It is easier for me to get a business going in real life than it is on this server. That's a plain fact. I currently run my own web development business, fully licensed, paperwork entirely filled by myself. Getting one through PM is more difficult than getting one through my local government.

 

That says enough. If people are saying they're "buying any business", that's for a reason. It's because they're desperate.

I've dealt with PM as a player too (when I was very new to the server, barely 150h in). I was told by multiple people that PM is harsh and that your request will possibly get denied, take weeks etc. I still gave it a shot.

I wrote a decent application(at least I'd like to think so) and it was accepted first try, no pending or questions asked.

What I'm trying to get at is, I know that I'd be depressed and disappointed if that week-long wait instead resulted in a denial. As a player, your time is as valuable as ours is. I hate making people wait, I understand that it delays/blocks avenues of roleplay. 

 

 

Being on the other side of the spectrum, I can tell you for a fact that a lot of requests are either low quality or have people gripping to assets they don't want to lose because they would ICly have them. PM is not difficult to deal with unless you yourself are making it difficult. Does it take time? Yes. Does that mean you should drop your standards and go the route of "buying any business"? Absolutely not. We already work hard enough to ensure that requests are dealt with quickly and also try to continue to uphold the quality of businesses. 

 

You can always send suggestions to us on how to improve how Property Management handles requests/leases or just general feedback that you have for us. We're open to suggestions.

[maramizo]

3 hours ago, effion said:

"Businesses may not change from what they were originally requested as without contacting Property Management first e.g. changing a business from a cafe to a nightclub. "

I never said PM won't be informed. 

 

3 hours ago, effion said:

You can always send suggestions to us on how to improve how Property Management handles requests/leases or just general feedback that you have for us. We're open to suggestions.

 

Yeah, quite simply put: cease. 

 

Originally, as a response, I wrote a massive reply on how I've spent hours finding interiors, weeks of waiting, more weeks of back and forth, and been denied for what seem to me are illogical and unsatisfying reasons. But I don't want to turn this thread into a me too thread.  So I'll just summarize what I want to say:

 

PM is good when it comes to ensuring that some properties are realistically placed, but also hypocritical in some cases. The very act of requesting a property requires so much unnecessary effort. These properties should have been in in the first place, lol. How does a building exist there yet not have an interior?

 

For some reason, server management decided that not all properties will be spawned immediately, ok, fine. But then I have to deal with the most random & arbitrary reasons as to why they can't be spawned in. At one point I offered PM $5,000,000 to buy an interior with a list of investors behind me and my denial reason was "it would be too expensive", lol. On the other end I can literally walk up to someone and go "cool bar bro mind if i buy?". That's literally how it goes IRL with valuations and purchases, except there's just more analysis on the business' finances. No one cares about "why". Having more properties spawned lowers the prices on properties, allowing more people to thrive and come up with all sorts of roleplay themselves.

 

These reasons combined make PM a bureaucratical nightmare to deal with. Either you got lucky with your request, or I'm unlucky with mines. But from what I've seen from other people's input? You got lucky. Odds are stacked up against you when dealing with PM.

 

So, a list of suggestions;

1. Spawn properties without having players to request them, they should have been there in the first place. Doing so would reduce prices, and allow more forms of roleplay to appear.
2. Focus more on planning and what is to be seen rather than the "reasons". 250 words on the lease requests are "why", who cares about why? The people that come to roleplay with the property won't care "why" the requester got it, they'll care about what they're seeing & what sort of roleplay they're getting. That's where the focus should be.
3. Be more helpful, I've been declined a request after me having given 7 different exteriors, with nothing but criticism on the exteriors for 3 weeks straight, even some of the criticism applied to other businesses that I was to compete with, yet they clearly were spawned in.

 

HOWEVER

 

The reason why I'm so frustrated with PM is really an interaction that occurred a year ago. The names I'm seeing on that request aren't even around anymore. These days, the people in PM have been incredibly helpful, so maybe things have changed. My opinion may be outdated, but back in the day, it was legit easier IRL than it is in game.