Trupiano

There's a ton of different reasons and honestly very rarely is people being money hungry and opting for the quickest path to wealth one of them. Before you even examine the reasons you need to identify and pick apart the problem. So lets get a few things out of the way. 1 out of 3 bars/clubs are owned and operated by OC factions. This in itself isn't a bad thing as from what I've seen every single one of them is either: Operating the bar/club as an essential criminal hub for a faction/crew, providing a avenue for others to interact and RP with them. They're operating the clubs efficiently and realistically. I know the money is likely also going to promote more RP. The number of clubs isn't the issue, this is supposed to be a west coast metropolitan city right? Realistically we'd have even more clubs. The problem is the lack of other businesses, I've found that there are plenty of people with cool and unique ideas and some of them have been able to execute them. Sadly, no matter how much forum warriors complain about how much they'd like to see unique businesses. When it comes to in game, nobody interacts with them. Not enough people to make it sustainable that it. If you want your business to be successful, no matter what it is. You'll need gold, you need blips to get people in the door. This means I have to invest real world money into this server every month and if I'm not seeing any fruitful return on the money I'm investing. By this I mean other players coming and interacting with my business. I'm not going to continue with my gold, let alone my business idea. There needs to be an incentive for people to run businesses even if there aren't players walking through the door. Making it feasible to run unique businesses which will then present opportunities for other people to come and interact with them. Another issue when it comes to running businesses? It's almost impossible to find staff. People don't always want money on an RP server, they want interaction. Easiest way to do that? Be a bartender. I've attempted to run restaurants on this server and while it's super easy to find a million bartenders, try finding someone who can RP being a waiter, let alone a chef. Let alone as @DLimit mentioned, although restaurants are literally commonplace all over the world. It seems players GTAW have a mental break down anytime there isn't a bar or counter they can immediately interact with. All this makes it almost impossible to run even something similar to a nightclub, let alone something unique. Until all that is addressed, I don't see this issue getting any better. It isn't staffs fault, nor just the players faults. This is top to bottom the communities fault for even allowing this issue to be happen but to also be complacent and even actively contributing to the issue most of the time, all the while complaining and acting like it's everyone else's fault.

As for car thefts? As of right now the system needs some serious work. Exactly what I'll leave to the more seasoned players in this realm, I don't do much car theft but when I have it's really just felt like a placeholder system. It's not really that enjoyable and it doesn't feel like there's that much room for creativity. As for car vandalism? The issue is, nothings permanent. Yeah I can put a cim and I can hope the person RP's it, but the likelihood is they won't or if they do it will only be for an extremely brief period. Something needs to be done to make vandalism more permanent. One small suggestion, I really like the current IFM requests system and I think a CK style request for burning and permanently destroying someone's car would be great. Obviously it would require proper justification but it would add an alternatives for beef escalation that doesn't immediately involve guns and would create unique events for FD.

Yes. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

Came here to say this. The 200k starter money is not that much, an apartment costs around 100k, a car another 50-75k. That leaves you with fifty grand total which lets be honest, isn't that much. The problem is the players and a lack of quality control by staff. RPQM is fucking joke, anybody who has attempted to use the system can attest to that. When Morningwood and Del Perro apartments got accepted, I was in a faction that was quick to setup in the one low income apartment block where apartments were 75k and had a motel room interior. At first, things were pretty casual but about two weeks in someone in the ricer community discovered there was a shit load of cheap apartments and it drastically started to go down hill. An entire friend group bought up a bunch of cheap apartments next to each other so they could all live and park their cars together, even going as far as to buy one of the apartments to turn into a clubhouse. Why spend 150k on an apartment that matches my character when me and my friends can just drop 75k and immediately remap a shithole into a luxury condo. During the basically year that I was in the faction there, it became very apparent to me that while "mallrats" are not all genuinely bad. They are the player group who is the most guilty of bending portrayal to live out a fantasy. Some people are gonna read this and go "People are allowed to RP what they want, stop getting salty" but it's pretty basic. Your allowed to take a lot of creative liberties with your character, but this is a serious RP server. You shouldn't live in a 75k one room apartment while you own two 200k cars. And it's the justification/downplaying of this behavior that makes it so much worse. The same people who were doing this shit were the same people who thought it was ok to drive down two flights of stairs in their massive truck because "Oh I didn't realize any people were around and I didn't wanna drive an extra 30 seconds to the entrance". These are the same people who would elect to use their own continuity over the servers so they can justify they're own actions. The amount of times my Armenian was told Morningwood was a "retirement community" when it's literally ICly Little Armenia was ridiculous. Again, I'm not saying all mallrats are bad. But they are the culprits in this situation or at least a good chunk of them are. Why are people so rich? Because they don't actually RP their assets correctly. People find any ways to cut corners so they can get their ideal assets as soon as possible. That means grinding the mechanic or truck driver job for your first 50 hours, that means buying the cheaper property even if it doesn't make sense for your character because you know you can get it remapped into a luxury apartment for probably cheaper then just outright buying the luxury apartment that makes sense for you. If we want an actual solution I propose the following: Regulate not only players buying assets too expensive for their characters but also assets that are too cheap. If someone has five million in the bank they shouldn't be allowed to retain a cheap apartment as their home. This would force people to upgrade their assets to reflect their actual wealth instead of sitting on unrealistic piles of cash. Regulate mapping on cheaper apartments for quality control and proper portrayal. If the base interior is one room, the mapping should be forced to reflect the same. This would force more people to purchase more expensive properties if they wish to have something extravagant mapped. Implement taxes on bank accounts worth more then 2 million. This would limit the amount of actual multimillionaires on the server as it would make it basically impossibly to stack paycheck after paycheck. Millionaires would actually be characters who are bringing in a sizeable amount of money each month. Increase wages at 24/7's, Liquor stores and tobacco shops while decreasing wages for truckers and mechanics. Lets be honest, the latter two jobs are abused while the first three are under served. This would shift money making away from the job grind mentality and force players who wanna just make money to actually provide the server with a tangible service.

If you think criminal RPers are the donators staff is appeasing, you clearly haven't been here long. I'm only bringing this up to address this point but GTAW's main source of income comes from catering to ERPers and second lifers. There's a reason that facebrowser, this new dating site and literal sex animations see so much development on the server.

I think a lot of good points are raised in this thread, but instead of using those points constructively to find a solution people want to just resort to pointing fingers and sitting on their ass while somebody else does the work. A few key points: The crime rate is an IC issue which warrants an IC response. It's disingenuous to point fingers at criminals when many PD members are just electing to choose to ignore the problem, ultimately letting it get worse. This behavior by PD is understandable however given the lack of workable information left on bodies. Which leads me to believe that the evidence/investigation update could use a refresh. Maybe we can see some joint talks between DB and IFM council to identify a happy middle ground. Ultimately however, what's lacking in the evidence/investigation update does not effect PD's ability to perform crime suppression. Though boring, more regular patrols on a smaller area would have a noticeable impact on crime. We could also go as far as to add deployable camera systems for PD so they can at least monitor areas without officers being present. Suppliers need to do a better job of vetting who they are selling their weapons to. It is the responsibility of weapon suppliers to vet the factions they are selling to for quality and it's something I feel has become pretty unenforced. While obviously, where that weapon goes after the original sale is out of the suppliers control I know it's possible to track it over a period of time. If a supplier is selling repeatedly to a line of groups that is utilizing them poorly they should face some consequences for that. I get some people might be against this but it's really between this and hard limiting guns on the server, something that will ultimately hurt the market over time. Civilians need to accept the fact that this isn't a utopia city, it's a fictional place on a video game. Comparing IRL crime stats to those in a video game is just illogical for multiple reasons and while it might be troublesome to deal with, this is a video game after all and that criminal has as much a right to be here as you do. No one is asking you to RP a PTSD ridden drug war refuge because of what you see in Los Santos. I get it, it's ridiculously high and noticeable most of the time but nobody is going to be mad at you for downplaying the effects. This is a video game after all.

And then throwing a fit when they don't get served. Like I don't care how hard your egangster is, No teenager in America is walking into a bar demanding service.

Go read some of the past threads whenever making "Official" more then it currently is comes up, people will monologue about how wonderful the LSRP system and how it made faction RP so much better. Yet whenever the people who were apart of LSRP's "Official" factions chime in, they'll tell you how horrible the system actually was and how it catered towards those with friends in staff and those who had been in the community longest, not the quality of the factions RP or the content they were providing the server. Official status, like seen in LSRP, like what's being suggested here do nothing but hurt RP servers. No matter the rules/requirements put in place it will ultimately be utilized as a shield to protect factions that have become subpar or are simply breaking rules. And hey, if this faction system is so great? Why don't we check in on LSRP to see how it's doing... Oh wait, it's dead. Ultimately, while there are issues with Illegal RP and I agree with OP that some form of solution is needed. This isn't it, nor is it the right realm to take aim at changing. The faction system isn't the issue and adding a little official tag and giving little perks to faction who get it will do absolutely nothing to increase the overall quality of Illegal RP. It'll just give a shining badge to one group of players so they can feel superior to everyone else. Regardless how about we talk about actually changes that can help Illegal RP like increased updates (As we were promised 👀) and beefing up IFM with competent admins instead of having the same discussion which IFM already answered:

If we're dissuading people from making factions because the current system is too "boring", I highly doubt those are the people we want running factions in the first place. If someone is refraining from doing a certain concept because of the lack of rewards in the GTAW faction system, then I doubt the concept was really that interesting in the first place. Stop trying to make this LSRP nerds.

I hate to break it to you but standard SOP's for American law enforcement is literally to mag dump a target until they drop. Your belief is a common one promoted by copaganda.

Club RP is boring, RP in the pod instead.

Username: BigTommytwins434 Comment: Now this is real journalism, finally an article out of Los Santos that isn't about sucking biker dick or profiling a fag DJ.

I accept that and it's a correct argument, but it's also an incredibly slippery slope. The reason I speak so adamantly on the topic is because, from the way I and many others see it. The overall belief of some people on the other side boils down to "Criminals are garbage, the server would be better without them". They can't say the quiet part out loud, so instead they promote fixes that would completely ruin the experiences of hundreds of players, including myself and I'm not even doing anything wrong. Look, I'm all for a senate that evolves IC but there needs to be checks and balances, certain things like legalizing weed sounds like a great idea but trust me it would fuck over a lot of people. I was one of the main weed growers for a few months and trust me, the market would not sustain itself. There will always be subjects and things that are off limits from change on this server. It's not about catering to a specific side, it's about keeping the game enjoyable for the majority. I want to clarify, I'm for target changes to the punitive consequences. Messing with the amount of time people spend in prison will always be a part OOC/IC process. In my suggestion, I am for increasing the punitive consequences for arms trafficking because I know, the characters who could be investigated and charged with it are likely characters/players who can handle longer stints of development in prison. I also know that the vast majority of suppliers and major faction are for RICO investigations, as long as they are fair. But if we're talking increasing punitive consequences across the board for say all violent crimes? It'll never work because the people who are really causing the most problems? It won't put them in jail, it'll just put one of their characters in jail. They'll simply continue fucking with people on the street with alts.

Just because you may disagree with someone's choices doesn't mean they aren't taking consequences into consideration. This is a video game after all and we have the liberty to make the wrong choice. While there's plenty of room to have a sensible discussion about people who abuse the current system for pure personal enjoyment over RP, any OOC solutions that comes from that discussion should target those players directly and not criminal characters as a whole. Otherwise, as I and hundreds of others have pointed out not only will it not work, it'll make the situation worse. As it pertains to the senate, those solutions must make IC sense. There is not going to be some massive IC crime bill that addresses everyones OOC issues because well that would be cancerous. However as I've stated before on this thread, if the IC issue is gun crime there are solutions that can be adopted that target arms trafficking specifically. By increasing the sentencing minimums for that type of charge, law enforcement can pick apart the gun trade by putting the players facilitating it away for longer times.

What does this even mean? What? Is all crime conducted in the shadows by unseen and unnoticed criminal masterminds? Just because LFM blocks certain bills that threatens the playstyle of hundred of players doesn't mean they do it out of bias or malicious. They'd the exact same if there was a bill purposed that would target any set of players too harshly. This is a video game after all and we'll all hear to enjoy it. LFM's just ensuring that it stays that way. The lack of sensibility and the subtle jabs at both staff and Illegal RPers anytime this subject comes up is simply childish.

Relax, this is a video game.

While this is a possibility, it's something I doubt would ever be allowed by IFM or LFM. Killing a state senator is about the dumbest thing you can do as a criminal and even if it was a PK, horrible portrayal. This is totally understandable, my faction was the target of a RICO investigation recently and a LOT of the detectives work got voided in the end. There were tactics used I disagreed with, but nothing got voided because DB broke rules. We all felt really bad for the detectives working our case in the end because ultimately for all the work they put in a good chunk got voided and the arrests that did stick, well the people convicted were out by the time the court cases finished. That's why I think the fix is targeting arms trafficking specifically and pumping up the time in jail penalty. it's something that can be accomplished IC, doesn't broadly punish all criminal RPers and will give DB a real incentive to pursue these cases. All while actually effecting the gun trade on the server.

Cousin coming over from [INSERT EURASIAN COUNTRY] character introductions. I feel like I see them literally every other post on some faction threads. I'm not saying eurasian RP is overplayed, but that type of character definitely is. Where are the Eurasian criminals coming up born and raised in Los Santos? Most of the Eurasian immigrant communities on the west coast are only 2nd or 3rd generation so I feel like it should be much more common then we see it on the server.

I think what @friendlyman is trying to say is money isn't an issue. While there's been some Senator RP around law enforcement budgets, it's basically fluff. Things like payroll and overtime is infinite for PD. Something which is a major handicap in IRL departments. LEO's did have easier restrictions on the searching of houses and vehicles, they lost it because it was frankly being abused to an unrealistic degree. Regardless there's not a ton they can do without breaking from realism. It's 2021 not 1961, there's no sweeping crime bill that's going to suddenly make it so crimes barrable on the server. This is a video game, violent crime will always be unrealistically high. Now what they could do is pass legislation which puts serious teeth into our RICO laws and propose heavy penalties for people convicted of arms trafficking. The vast majority of guns enter the server through one of like five gun suppliers, if PD really put the time and effort into doing RICO investigations right, which I'll admit is a TON. They could shut these factions down and seriously disrupt the flow of weapons on to the streets. This is something the senate could pass to actually address gun crimes in San Andreas. Frankly, something that none of your other suggestions really do. Make it easier for people to obtain legal weapons might seem like the right choice, but all it'll really do is turn every robbery into a gunfight. The majority of the people who will be applying won't do it because of any IC reason, they'll do it because they are OOCly tired of taking L's and now they don't have to go down without a fight. If we're complaining that the server has devolved into anarchy, how the fuck is that a solution? The other big issue is, while we might see 50 threads a week regarding this issue on the forums a week. Are people contacting their senators to complain about it? Absolutely not. Let's face the cold hard truth about politicians, they don't do shit unless their voters complain. Because voters complaining threatens re-election. If people really want to see the Senate address IC issues, start throwing a stink about these issues IG instead of on the forums. Organize anti-violence rallies! My city is facing a pretty serious gun violence epidemic right now and practically 35 times a month now there is some kind of community lead protest for peace, calling out both the community and their politicians to do something. Why the hell aren't we seeing this IG?

Working at 24/7's has always been a great gig for me. If you can show people that you consistently open a location, people will start going out of their way to come RP with you. Eventually you'll develop a nice little circle.

I literally said I admit there is a problem, why do you continue to ignore my full argument?

The way I look at it, when we all applied to this server we accepted the rules of it. There are plenty of things which I could say drive me nuts about the civilians population on this server. But I step back and remember that this is a video game and what they are doing probably doesn't break any rules. When things get out of hand, we can have sensible conversations about updating those rules. But we have to take into account that someone already on the server will be effected by these changes and its important to identify who that is before enacting what could be server damaging rule changes. The best example that's not crime related (Which obviously anything regarding crime becomes a fight on theses forums) is ERP. I personally believe that ERP is cringy, unnecessary and is used by players to fulfill IRL sexual fantasies. There are players who do that and banning ERP or heavily restricting it would definitely get them off the server and in my opinion increase quality overall, this again is my personal opinion on the subject. However, while this change might be seen as a positive to me since I don't ERP. There are way more people who do ERP while maintaining proper characters who would be effected negatively. Even though they weren't the ones doing anything wrong. That's what's happening to crime right now on the server and all people like me are trying to do is call that out. I think motorbike robbery duo's should be permanently banned on the spot. Start punishing players for playing 24/7 criminal masterminds, get that low effort shit out of here. But I will always be 100% against suggestions that would just broadly crack down on the Illegal Community. Things like super long jail sentences or disregarding characters with multiple murders as being too unrealistic. Yeah, they'll get rid of the 'issue' but they'll also kill the enjoyment for me and hundreds of other players. It would be about as fair to us as it would be to civilians if we banned ERP outright simply because of 50 or so bad apples.

My experience is that it is definitely not as bad as you try to portray it. This experience is in line with many players both in the civilian and criminal sides of the server, LEO's and just other people I've noticed on the forums. You can snip as many of my comments out context as you want. Your not proving some point because there's literally no point to be made, you just sound like an irrational crazy person replying like this. I, along side literally every Illegal RPer who has posted on these threads admits that there is are issues within the community when it comes to crime. The fact that we do not see the situation as as dire or agree with some of your heavy handed suggestions for fixing it DOES NOT MEAN WE ARE AGAINST SOLUTIONS. We want SENSIBLE solutions that won't entirely fuck over our RP, just because they don't align with yours doesn't make them disingenuous or bad.

That's not an attack, that's just a fact. Myself and hundreds of other players are not encountering this supposed crisis that people like yourself on the forums try to portray. We admit that there are problems and we try to share our experiences and have a sensible conversation about the issue and we get accused of attempting to promote some power fantasy involving victimizing civilians or that we just want civilians to be cattle for our slaughter. So yeah when someone is acting so hysterically that they don't want to have a logical productive conversation about the issue with all sides yes I'd refer to that as "crying" or having a "tantrum".