[Discussion] What can improve RP interactions between players and general RP standards?

[Eriks]

9 hours ago, Tiresias said:

The few administration-backed initiatives such as the LS City Government, Aurum, or the Senate tragically fail in the same manner. The people behind these projects stubbornly insist on roleplaying among themselves in GTAO heists meeting room interiors instead of going out of their way to, say, recruit noobs who would actually roleplay what their factions are supposed to be about.  Factions like the city government should rightfully be noob magnets and provide a change of scenery from the leisure-dominated legal roleplay, but nothing ever happens and the server's legal authorities would rather pontificate about U.S Supreme Court rulings instead.

What does this even mean?

[Barbary]

I think what he's saying is that he both wants the City Government to govern, while also being a newbie friendly faction for people to get their feet wet. But he can correct me if I'm wrong.

[Engelbert]

31 minutes ago, Barbary said:

I think what he's saying is that he both wants the City Government to govern, while also being a newbie friendly faction for people to get their feet wet. But he can correct me if I'm wrong.

I think so too. While I been here for a good while I am considering entering politics with my main character.

[Barbary]

Well it would be nice if there were other options for newcomers or newly minted characters to get their foot in the door with more white collar jobs.

 

I'll throw this in as my opinion as a still very new member of this community; the onboarding for new community members is not good. Especially if you want to play a character with a formal higher education that's below the level of a Doctorate or PhD. There's very little for someone to do if they want to RP as someone who's an educated in Social Science, Economy, STEM (Yes I know Aurum exists, I'll get to that and this isn't their fault) and really anything that isn't Medicine or Law. And even in the case of Medicine your best bet is Pillbox, LSFD or the Coroner's office.

This in my opinion is what leads to your average rando on the street having a PhD and making nothing of it, as it was mentioned before when describing 'Mallrats'. Still don't know what that is, but I genuinely think that's why. There's no value on server for being educated, there's no real way to implement or or craft a character or story that uses an already achieved education as a springboard. The most prevalent, available jobs are all high school level and blue collar. Driving trucks, fixing cars, being a bartender, working at a club or running your own start up business. We're willing to provide room for there to be a working class, but not a working class that spends most of their days partaking in things that still have strong social RP aspects but aren't places where the public will regularly filter in and out.

 

Someone mentioned Aurum, though from a different topic. Aurum and the City Government feel like the only two options you really have to run to if you want to RP a proper Engineer. And in both cases you have to be specific kinds of Engineer, because the RP they do is focused on construction and energy. So if you want to be, say, a Chemist. Congrats, you're screwed. There's no biotech firms on the server. No chemical plants unless you want to cook up drugs illegally. No powerplant to speak of, which I actually find very strange because I'd argue RPing an overworked electrical engineer having to make sure the whole island doesn't end up like North Korea would be pretty entertaining, even if it wouldn't provide constant action.

 

Hell there isn't really even a way for businesses to compete or ally with one another. Now I'm going off on a lark here, and someone who actually runs a business can correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've seen there's little conflict RP between corporations here beyond occasionally butting heads with the LSPD over something or other.

 

Personal example, I've got two characters. One's a guy who's fresh out of College with a BS in Psychology, the other's a former Marine with a BS in Chemical Engineering. I can't really use either of their backgrounds. Character #1 hasn't gone to Grad school yet, there's no way in hell he could open up a private practice and Pillbox wouldn't hire him unless he had a PhD or a Masters degree. Character #2's only option... is Aurum. Which isn't a bad option because of how it's run, I've never been part of the faction so I can't comment, but the fact that it's the only real option leads me to believe that it's a fragile stance.

 

If we really want to improve RP interactions between players, we need to provide more avenues for people to RP as well. Everyone is a bartender with a PhD because bartenders are in high demand, they pay great and they've got a framework to run on. But if we had more paths for people to go down to play educated characters. Low tier executives, deputy chief engineers, the upper-middle class, then maybe we'd see less people defaulting to mallrat RP. Or Gangbanger RP. Or cop RP.

 

LFM needs more factions. That's my biggest suggestion. Because I might be in the minority, but RPing a boardroom of bickering TV execs sounds fun to me. Or, I'm a fuckin' weirdo and everyone else would rather do what they're doing.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Barbary

[Wuhtah]

@Barbary - It's nice to read through a fresh set of eyes of a newer player to this community. 

 

I do have someone in my DMs currently addressing something you've written here - but I will keep that underwraps.

 

But from what I know, which isn't too much when it falls into the realm of LFM - is that they do look for development/progression. As PM - we can set you up with a business for whatever you want, as long as it makes sense to the character and the justification is there. Usually, from what I have seen - factions start off as business owners first with their venues. Once they gain the experience, knowledge, get a thread going, etc (same way illegals do sort of) then you can apply for faction status. 

 

There is a bit more information here: 

But I would absolutely love to see more legal factions come to play. However, if you're around for just a couple of months (how most businesses are) LFM won't grant you faction status - they want to see you here for the long run I believe.

 

@Viscaria is a PM/LFM administrator who would probably answer all of your questions of how to get started and perhaps can share a bit more insight with that too! Shoot them a forum PM!

 

 

[Perstephone]

The problem with this thread is that most of the people who will bother to read it or have an opinion on it aren't the problem. Rulebreaks that used to get people banned are now a 5 or 10 minute ajail. The attitude is quality over quantity and that's fine but as has been stated it's unfixable. The only reason a lot of people are still here is there is no viable alternative. It would be nice to say that we as players can do something to try address this problem but at the end of the day, administrative action is what sets the server standard. The staff team sets out what is allowable, which is taught to them by management. This is the acceptable standard on GTA:W now. That's not to say staff are at fault, they are following their own set of guidelines. I think a lot of us that have been around for a while just miss when the server standard was higher, but it's not anymore. 

[ZaE]

12 hours ago, goonbagAPPEAL said:

find them. 

Fine. I'll let this one out of my system for @Wuhtah 🤞

 

This will be a long read, so bare with me if you'd like.

 

You wanna know the true issue with this server? It's everything. The server's relationship with the staff team is miserable, and the server runs off of fear instead of fun. The relationship between different sections of the community is divided. The ability to roleplay creative things is limited due to you possibly being a "noob". The transparency we crave doesn't exist. The immersion we crave doesn't exist...everything is locked behind a pay wall just to map a fucking house or have a dog. Things are hidden from us like people keeping supplier and staff reports, things to keep a positive and open feeling are locked and hidden from us just incase that one admin you never expected might turn out to be corrupt! The reports take months to handle, and more importantly staff are over worked in game and on the forums because they have to handle so many things that they dont need too...to the point they just avoid certain reports because they fear it'll just be too much of a cluster fuck to handle. Players lash out on the wrong admins and this pushes them the wrong way, or players lash out on the wrong player of a respective community and ruin that persons entire view of the community of side of the server that player was in. People care too much about what others roleplay, even if it doesn't affect them. People want the server to be a 1:1 that it never will be, people want transparency, yet have no guts to speak on it (I'm guilty of this)... Everything is scattered all over the place and more importantly? We can't speak on it.

 

Members of the community are afraid to speak up on the things that are going wrong on the server because they are afraid that they are gonna lose their faction, lose their shot at supplier, lose their rank in a faction or maybe even lose their chance to play the server or speak. The slightest disagreement with a staff member will get you a warning on the forums and if you mention the fact you got warned that's another, until eventually you are banned from the forums and have to beg to be let back, or make another account. No matter how much management and staff deny it? Everyone on this forum has a warning for something fucking stupid on the their forums account, or had had a comment deleted because it was "off topic"

 

Though I am proud of Honey, Slothy and many others in Illegal Faction Management for the things they have done, they have not been fully transparent until some issue were brought right to there face but that goes for all of the staff team, they are said to run off of transparency and un-biased decisions but are the most bias and least transparent people on the server. You'll get something denied for the smallest reason and they can't even tell you exactly why or what was wrong with your application, admins attempt to use less-severe punishments as a way to show they are human and not just ruthless animals but it doesn't work...they end up not giving harsh enough punishments to poor roleplayers. not matter what a staff member does to connect with the community, the player will always fear the staff. And it shouldn't be like that.

 

It's okay to fear breaking the rules, that's obvious. But the issue is this entire community runs off of fear. There is no free speech until everyone gets together on a thread like this and finally speaks what they have been wanting to say for months and that's because some of the staff team and even the higher ups most likely don't want the community to hear what has to be said because it just another angry player that got warned, right? Wrong.

 

I have 1 administrative punishment in my 3 year history of GTA:World and it was over 2 years ago. For months it has just been "this player is just mad he didnt get this, forum warn him!" or "he's mad cause he got jailed ig or IFM didnt let him do a scheme, warn him!" wrong. 

 

I haven't seen any real talks with staff and the community like this that are human, and the fucked up part is it's one staff team in a group of dozens speaking for all of them, it's simply unhealthy and it sucks.

 

The problem is the stigma and hatred between illegals and legals, the stigma and hatred between illegals and other illegals, the hatred between legals and other legals...it's all a problem. The entire way this community operates, treats each other, all the way from the top of the food chain to the bottom is horrendous. Every legal that gives into a bad interaction with an illegal goes to the forums to shit on it, and every illegal that has 1 bad cop goes to the forums to shit on them...it all fucking sucks. Some of you people care way to much about things that don't directly affect you, and I love the dedication but you're not always going to be pleased, I'm sorry.

 

Let us speak and adapt to our changes like we ask. I know it's a business but if the community REALLY WANTS SOMETHING as a community? Develop the change and see where it goes and if we don't like it after? Fix it and develop. This server runs off of fear and mainly what the elites want/have the time to develop...instead of running off of friendships, a community feeling, transparency and focusing on the player-base wants. Ban the bad players, stop harboring them just because they donate or just because they are cool with you or it's there first offense...and players, be more mindful you are playing the same server and we are here for FUN, not some fucking debate over cops and robbers, some of you people care way too much. 

 

The problem is the duration it takes for threads like this to spread, the problem is nobody wants to take a loss, the problem is everyone is afraid to speak because they will get warned or silenced, the problem is staff members having the ability to silence us so quick, the problem is illegals and legals not being to talk like civilized human beings...i have had heated arguments with @Allantrist, @Zach.., @phantom_ you fucking name it...all main legals. and at the end of the day? we apoligized for any rude things we said and took in the other sides POV and continued to be cool people and cool with each other OOC. the issue is separation and division with staff and players, and even players and players... 

 

The issue is everything. If another server like GTA:World sparked up that had everything it lacked? People would run to it in a mili-second but theres nothing like GTA:World. The activity is so great, the roleplay whether people like it or not is astonishing if you go to the right places...just as much bad as there is on the server there is good, that's what keeps people here. Our friends and fellow players we love and enjoy roleplaying around, along with the amazing scripts the dev team have put in and the business, multiple interiors, it's all so special and dear to so many peoples hearts...and that's why we sit here. This thread is living proof there is still hope for this community as I see people like @smo that I've argued with over illegal rp INSANELY fighting for us, and you have people like me and many many others that escaped illegal RP and tried legal rp to see what it was like and now fight for legals as well. All we need is to come together and stop being so afraid to speak our mind, no matter the consequences. Would you rather sit in the same server that's in the same state for the rest of your existence just because you are scared of a forum warning, or have the balls to set up and potentially change something if we have enough voices? That's your question to answer.

 

but more importantly to all the staff, management, anybody involved with administration or moderation on the server...?

 

Stop silencing your server members. You have power, yes. But you are a player too. And we as players deserve to get talked to as if we are normal people, not given half-assed 5 month late responses. If you don't have the time to answer DMs? Make a certain team in Illegal Faction Management that handles Character Kill Permissions, give more staff members or players a chance to help out with that to prove themselves to be a full time IFM member...there's so much we can do to prevent the problems mentioned on this thread that we dont.

 

That's all I have to say.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by ZaE

[Exodus]

Figured I'll step in, I'll say I am posting as myself, not on behalf of RPQM or staff. I will, however, respond to those comments that have RPQM in them to the best of my ability.

 

19 hours ago, sk8 said:

Now, what I’m saying here is exactly what I said in the first post - if you have an admin team who’s job is to ensure RP quality and server quality, why are we the community having to discuss how to improve what these people are volunteering to do? 

 

I've said it many times in closed circles and I'll say it here - people complain in public, but never report to us. I always give the same example, a player who's not part of the community anymore used to own a blue Jubilee (Rolls Royce SUV) while living in Forum Drive. Said player always had it spawned during the day, so everyone saw it on the street.

 

Obviously, that's questionable, why would someone live in Forum Drive while having a Rolls Royce? Instead of reporting, you'd see people asking in Discord "where are the admins, how is this allowed?" While the answer to their question is very simple, no one reported it. I had to report it myself and handle it, it took about 24 hours before the player was punished.

 

People report nothing, they assume we always keep track of the 700+ active players on the server and monitor everyone, while it's the opposite, we need you to tell us if there's something wrong, otherwise we will never know or find out ages after something messed up happened.

 

11 hours ago, Tiresias said:

and I assume many others were essentially harassed by RPQM over nothing, most likely because he hurt someone's ego. 

 

I assume they are your friends, or people you know at least. I've been part of RPQM for six months now, I am yet to meet someone who was contacted by us and went "okay, you got me, my character portrayal is bad". And let me be clear, the names you mentioned, I do not know their case, I'm not saying their portrayal is bad.

 

I also wonder what is "being harassed"? Us contacting a player is harassing them? If you don't feel like sharing it here, my PMs are open to continue this and hopefully I can get you the answers you are looking for.

 

11 hours ago, Tiresias said:

Meanwhile, a cursory visit in any nightclub or trucking depot would provide with years of bad roleplay to help improve.

 

This proves my point above, that people do not report. I'm saying this because I assume you (and other players) witnessed some form of poor character portrayal at a nightclub or a trucking depot, but then no one reported any of it. 

 

We had a thread a few weeks back about reports taking hours to get an answer in game, so I don't think taking admins to spectate random spots for poor character portrayal is the way to solve this issue.

 

Before I close this off I want to address something that someone is guaranteed to say, "we don't report to RPQM because it takes long". Just ask yourself this question, would you feel okay with losing your character that you've been on for some time a day after RPQM contacted you? No, you'll defend yourself, we'll investigate your claims and move on from there.

 

This takes time, and I don't think there is a way of making those reports any quicker without hurting the quality of how we handle them. If you got a question or something, please mention me, I'll lose track of it otherwise.

[Xaleya]

3 minutes ago, Exodus said:

Figured I'll step in, I'll say I am posting as myself, not on behalf of RPQM or staff. I will, however, respond to those comments that have RPQM in them to the best of my ability.

 

 

I've said it many times in closed circles and I'll say it here - people complain in public, but never report to us. I always give the same example, a player who's not part of the community anymore used to own a blue Jubilee (Rolls Royce SUV) while living in Forum Drive. Said player always had it spawned during the day, so everyone saw it on the street.

 

Obviously, that's questionable, why would someone live in Forum Drive while having a Rolls Royce? Instead of reporting, you'd see people asking in Discord "where are the admins, how is this allowed?" While the answer to their question is very simple, no one reported it. I had to report it myself and handle it, it took about 24 hours before the player was punished.

 

People report nothing, they assume we always keep track of the 700+ active players on the server and monitor everyone, while it's the opposite, we need you to tell us if there's something wrong, otherwise we will never know or find out ages after something messed up happened.

 

 

I assume they are your friends, or people you know at least. I've been part of RPQM for six months now, I am yet to meet someone who was contacted by us and went "okay, you got me, my character portrayal is bad". And let me be clear, the names you mentioned, I do not know their case, I'm not saying their portrayal is bad.

 

I also wonder what is "being harassed"? Us contacting a player is harassing them? If you don't feel like sharing it here, my PMs are open to continue this and hopefully I can get you the answers you are looking for.

 

 

This proves my point above, that people do not report. I'm saying this because I assume you (and other players) witnessed some form of poor character portrayal at a nightclub or a trucking depot, but then no one reported any of it. 

 

We had a thread a few weeks back about reports taking hours to get an answer in game, so I don't think taking admins to spectate random spots for poor character portrayal is the way to solve this issue.

 

Before I close this off I want to address something that someone is guaranteed to say, "we don't report to RPQM because it takes long". Just ask yourself this question, would you feel okay with losing your character that you've been on for some time a day after RPQM contacted you? No, you'll defend yourself, we'll investigate your claims and move on from there.

 

This takes time, and I don't think there is a way of making those reports any quicker without hurting the quality of how we handle them. If you got a question or something, please mention me, I'll lose track of it otherwise.

I could reach you via discord for further inquiry?

[fortieznshortiez]

19 minutes ago, ZaE said:

Fine. I'll let this one out of my system for @Wuhtah 🤞

 

 

You wanna know the true issue with this server? It's everything. The server's relationship with the staff team is miserable, and the server runs off of fear instead of fun. The relationship between different sections of the community is divided. The ability to roleplay creative things is limited due to you possibly being a "noob". The transparency we crave doesn't exist. The immersion we crave doesn't exist...everything is locked behind a pay wall just to map a fucking house or have a dog. Everything is scattered all over the place and more importantly? We can't speak on it.

 

Members of the community are afraid to speak up on the things that are going wrong on the server because they are afraid that they are gonna lose their faction, lose their shot at supplier, lose their rank in a faction or maybe even lose their chance to play the server or speak. The slightest disagreement with a staff member will get you a warning on the forums and if you mention the fact you got warned that's another, until eventually you are banned from the forums and have to beg to be let back, or make another account. 

 

Though I am proud of Honey, Slothy and many others in Illegal Faction Management for the things they have done, they have not been fully transparent until some issue were brought right to there face but that goes for all of the staff team, they are said to run off of transparency and un-biased decisions but are the most bias and least transparent people on the server. You'll get something denied for the smallest reason and they can't even tell you exactly why or what was wrong with your application, admins attempt to use less-severe punishments as a way to show they are human and not just ruthless animals but it doesn't work...they end up not giving harsh enough punishments to poor roleplayers. not matter what a staff member does to connect with the community, the player will always fear the staff. And it shouldn't be like that.

 

It's okay to fear breaking the rules, that's obvious. But the issue is this entire community runs off of fear. There is no free speech until everyone gets together on a thread like this and finally speaks what they have been wanting to say for months and that's because some of the staff team and even the higher ups most likely don't want the community to hear what has to be said because it just another angry player that got warned, right? Wrong.

 

I have 1 administrative punishment in my 3 year history of GTA:World and it was over 2 years ago. For months it has just been "this player is just mad he didnt get this, forum warn him!" or "he's mad cause he got jailed ig or IFM didnt let him do a scheme, warn him!" wrong. 

 

I haven't seen any real talks with staff and the community like this that are human, and the fucked up part is it's one staff team in a group of dozens speaking for all of them, it's simply unhealthy and it sucks.

 

The problem is the stigma and hatred between illegals and legals, the stigma and hatred between illegals and other illegals, the hatred between legals and other legals...it's all a problem. The entire way this community operates, treats each other, all the way from the top of the food chain to the bottom is horrendous. Every legal that gives into a bad interaction with an illegal goes to the forums to shit on it, and every illegal that has 1 bad cop goes to the forums to shit on them...it all fucking sucks. Some of you people care way to much about things that don't directly affect you, and I love the dedication but you're not always going to be pleased, I'm sorry.

 

Let us speak and adapt to our changes like we ask. I know it's a business but if the community REALLY WANTS SOMETHING as a community? Develop the change and see where it goes and if we don't like it after? Fix it and develop. This server runs off of fear and mainly what the elites want/have the time to develop...instead of running off of friendships, a community feeling, transparency and focusing on the player-base wants. Ban the bad players, stop harboring them just because they donate or just because they are cool with you or it's there first offense...and players, be more mindful you are playing the same server and we are here for FUN, not some fucking debate over cops and robbers, some of you people care way too much. 

 

The problem is the duration it takes for threads like this to spread, the problem is nobody wants to take a loss, the problem is everyone is afraid to speak because they will get warned or silenced, the problem is staff members having the ability to silence us so quick, the problem is illegals and legals not being to talk like civilized human beings...i have had heated arguments with @Allantrist, @Zach.., @phantom_ you fucking name it...all main legals. and at the end of the day? we apoligized for any rude things we said and took in the other sides POV and continued to be cool people and cool with each other OOC. the issue is separation and division with staff and players, and even players and players... 

 

The issue is everything. If another server like GTA:World sparked up that had everything it lacked? People would run to it in a mili-second but theres nothing like GTA:World. The activity is so great, the roleplay whether people like it or not is astonishing if you go to the right places...just as much bad as there is on the server there is good, that's what keeps people here. Our friends and fellow players we love and enjoy roleplaying around, along with the amazing scripts the dev team have put in and the business, multiple interiors, it's all so special and dear to so many peoples hearts...and that's why we sit here. This thread is living proof there is still hope for this community as I see people like @smo that I've argued with over illegal rp INSANELY fighting for us, and you have people like me and many many others that escaped illegal RP and tried legal rp to see what it was like and now fight for legals as well. All we need is to come together and stop being so afraid to speak our mind, no matter the consequences. Would you rather sit in the same server that's in the same state for the rest of your existence just because you are scared of a forum warning, or have the balls to set up and potentially change something if we have enough voices? That's your question to answer.

 

but more importantly to all the staff, management, anybody involved with administration or moderation on the server...?

 

Stop silencing your server members. You have power, yes. But you are a player too. And we as players deserve to get talked to as if we are normal people, not given half-assed 5 month late responses. If you don't have the time to answer DMs? Make a certain team in Illegal Faction Management that handles Character Kill Permissions, give more staff members or players a chance to help out with that to prove themselves to be a full time IFM member...there's so much we can do to prevent the problems mentioned on this thread that we dont.

 

That's all I have to say.

 

 

most important post in the thread honestly, could not have said it better myself. even i tend to skirt around saying x y or z when im debating opinions on things, especially since my history with that goofy ass meme i made that got me banned for almost a year before finally getting unbanned. not to mention the damn near political gymnastics you gotta play to express that a certain point you made isn't to attack this group or that group and starting arguments with people that completely miss your point.