Garages: Make upgrades IC through legal suppliers and car chopping

[mj2002]

Detailed Description

 

 

Several threads have been opened, recently and less recently, regarding the garage system and the approach to upgrading vehicles. I personally identified a few issues that ideally would be resolved, and then tried to create a concept of a possible solution, which will follow below.

 

The problems customers and mechanics are facing include, but are not limited to;

 

• Forced interactions without depth
• Lack of price and performance distinctions for upgrades

 

These two issues raised above mean that customers generally perceive garages as glorified NPC menus. When a customer goes to garage, they already know ahead of time what they want, how much it will cost, and what the effects will be. Finding an opened garage, travelling to said garage, interacting with garage staff, paying a fixed amount, waiting for upgrades to be done, all of these things are just barriers to customers. On the other hand, mechanics have to deal with floods of customers that don't want to wait very long, almost always want the same thing  from the mechanic (/acceptorder) and then are forced to do solo roleplay, usually out of sight and without interacting with anyone.

 

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TLDR - The proposed solution in short

 

• Remove component requirements from performance upgrades
• Remove performance upgrades from the garage menu
• Performance parts are named and are no longer 100% intercompatible
• Performance parts are now items until applied to a vehicle
• Performance parts are now supplied by legal suppliers
• Add a system to deal in illegal roleplayers through the car chop system

 

The expanded explanation follows below.

 

1 - Performance upgrades are removed from the garage menu entirely.

 

No more upgrading directly through a menu.

No more fixed prices for upgrades.

 

2 - Named performance parts and compatibility

 

Every single performance upgrade will be a named item. No more 4/4 or full upgrades. This will be a rather involved and expansive process, but with a decent community we can make this happen. My initial proposal is to work with a tiered system to keep the back end 0/4 to 4/4 in place, but dress it up with lore appropriate replacement.

 

• 0/4 - No upgrade, stock, default, etc. This doesn't need to be included in the /vstats either.
• 1/4 - Interchangeable performance upgrade that can be used by every single car.
• 2/4 - Semi-interchangeable performance upgrade that can be used by every single car of the same brand.
• 3/4 - Barely interchangeable performance upgrade that can be used by a selection of cars from the same brand.
• 4/4 - Unique performance upgrade that can be used only by one model, not interchangeable at all.

 

What to expect? An item that one can carry in their inventory, though it would most likely be a weighty item, something like this, ignore the lore or OOC names for now. The names are nothing more than a quick Google session from someone who doesn't really know much about the technical details of car modifications.

 

0/4 - 

1/4 - BOMW lowered suspension kit (OOCly applicable to every four wheeled car featuring lowering ride heights)

2/4 - Ubermacht Mono-tube gas pressured shock absorber (OOCly applicable to every Ubermacht car)

3/4 - Bilstein B14 Ubermacht Coilover  (OOCly applicable to every Ubermacht Sentinel)

4/4 - Bilstein B16 Ubermacht PSS10 SG4 Coilover set with hardness adjustment (OOCly applicable only to Ubermacht Sentinel SG4)

 

0/4 - 

1/4 - LSC clutch kit (OOCly applicable to every four wheeled car)

2/4 - Ubermacht ZF 8HP automatic transmission (OOCly applicable to every Ubermacht car)

3/4 - Stage 2 xHP S ZF 8HP automatic transmission  (OOCly applicable to every Ubermacht Sentinel)

4/4 - Stage 3 xHP SG4 DCT 6-speed transmission (OOCly applicable only to Ubermacht Sentinel SG4)

 

Some notes for 1/4 and 2/4 items. Not every performance upgrade has the same effect on each vehicle, so it might be relevant to add multiple 1/4 items that are compatible with a wide array of vehicles. One example would be the lowered or raised suspensions, as this single mod slot doesn't always lower the ride height, but for some models can also raise the ride height. Having two instead of one might be relevant there.

 

3 - Installing parts

 

Installing performance modifications does no longer require the use of the garage menu. Instead, communication as to what the customer wants, what the mechanic (or customer) has available, and what the price for performance part + installation fee is, payment conditions and term, etc, would be done ICly. The installation itself would be done with a single command by an onduty mechanic; /installupgrade itemID vehicleID confirm, where the mechanic must be in possession of the vehicle's key through /vdup.

 

Bonus/Optional feature: The /installupgrade command could start a timer which disables the vehicle's engine or even freezes the vehicle entirely for x minutes. Freezing might be necessary to avoid abuse with flatbeds, etc, but thats a minor detail. Repeating this command with different upgrades adds to the existing timer.

 

Bonus/Optional feature 2: /removeupgrade vehicleID upgradeID confirm, used to remove an upgrade before it can be replaced by another upgrade. Same considerations as /installupgrade, required key, timer, etc.

 

4 - Legal parts supply

 

All these many different performance parts could be available from legal suppliers, which could in theory be a business model on its own, or perhaps be tied directly to garages themselves. There is a choice of how long the chain needs to be. In theory you can extend this to an entire new business script, which uses components to buy specific parts, etc, etc, but that is a little beyond the scope of this concept.

 

Regardless of what model is chosen, it is important to create a money and time barrier between what is available to the legal supplier, and what the mechanic has available on site. No more infinite supplies of everything, immediately. Instead, garage owners must either order their components from LFM/PM/staff team, or there is a party in between that acts as a middle man between the LFM/PM/NPC supplier and the garages. This should be done through a system that is similar to what illegal suppliers use for drugs, but then without it being illegal. Do you want a specific part for your car? Get it yourself, or have your garage get it for you in advance, before you bring your car in.

 

This system creates depth through the fact that communication with suppliers is required to obtain the parts you need for your specific ride. This is enhanced by the fact that most relevant parts are not compatible between all vehicles, and those that are have limited performance increases. This creates an interesting environment where there upgrading your ride is no longer just visiting a menu, but a challenge where you have to know what is needed, and you have to figure out where to get it, and how much you may have to pay for it.

 

4 - Illegal parts supply

 

Now that vehicles aren't just fitted with 4/4 brakes, but specific performance parts for that model, it can be interesting to introduce this system to the car chopping system. How exactly this should work, is up for debate, but one simple but less elegant solution would be to simply roll a dice on each car chop action, and at the right value, transfer a custom modification part from the chopped car to the inventory of the player chopping the car. Say, 20% chance to get a maximum of one custom part, a 1% chance of getting a maximum of two custom parts, and a 0,02% chance of getting a maximum of 3 custom parts. This would be on top of what is already received in the current system. 

 

This creates a secondary environment for the supply of performance parts. It hurts the car owner, and rewards the car chopper, but neither is guaranteed. It also adds a little more financial risk to owning a car with performance parts installed. Those in the car chopping business have new items with actual value and need to establish contacts in order to turn these items into profit.

 

 

Relevant Commands/Items

 

1. Removal of performance upgrades from the garage menu
2. /installupgrade itemID vehicleID confirm
3. /removeupgrade vehicleID upgradeID confirm
4. Removal of performance modifications from /vstats, replaced by a list of installed items

 

How will it benefit the server?

 

• More meaningful interactions between customer and mechanics

 

This system removes the glorified NPC menu aspect of performance upgrades. Instead, a customer has to indicate what they are looking for. If the customer characters don't know anything about cars, then they might be sold something cheap by the garage. If the garage doesn't have any parts available that are suitable for the vehicle in question, they may have to accept something less effective instead.

 

• A market for performance parts

 

Parts being turned into items means a market is introduced. Different parts would be sold at different values by the staff team coordinating legal suppliers. These prices may vary based on a variety of factors such as demand, the amount of performance increase it provides, available supply, etc.

 

A second hand trade in these parts can come into existing, which introduces further complexities and depth, as it partially fuelled by NPC supply, overstock by garages, item theft, car chopping, etc. The market for performance parts also influences, to a degree, the price of second hand vehicles.

 

• Opportunities for legal and illegal roleplayers

 

By turning an OOC menu, and part of /vstats, into IC items, there is more to explore for roleplayers that are passionate about vehicle modifications. The realism aspect remains limited, but it beats engine 4/4, maxed out and fully tuned. For illegal roleplayers, there is more to gain from chopping cars up, and their network of contacts can be expanded to those who wish to buy modifications.

 

• More freedom to differentiate between different parts

 

Right now, the system is rather rigid, by having a slot for a turbocharger available for every single vehicle, even if this is no realistic. A car might have an electric drivetrain instead. This system allows us to be more accurate by just giving upgrades tailored for these vehicles appropriate names, whilst in the background they are still considered a "turbo" upgrade.

 

Depending on how NPC supply is coordinated, parts can be priced independently of each other. Perhaps the upgrade for that very expensive sports car isn't quite as expensive as the same upgrade for an Asea.

 

 

Concerns and Challenges

 

A lot of names

Going by the above concept, this will require a very rough estimate of 2000 unique names for different parts. This is a lot, with more being introduced for each vehicle added. This is a lot of work. Now, I'm sure that as a community we can do this, but it present a challenge. The system can be simplified and allow for more compatibility between different models and brand to reduce this number. That would make it more manageable and also ensure that characters with rare cars aren't left entirely without upgrades. Then again, this also depends on how the NPC supply system would work.

 

Vehicles other than cars

The performance upgrade system is available for a lot of different vehicle classes. Cars, bicycles, boats, trucks, aircraft, motorcycles, etc. It might be possible to test out the system on a smaller class of vehicles first, before introducing it to all cars. For example, dirt bikes could be the first class to try it out with. I would personally leave out boats, bicycles, and aircraft entirely.

 

Legacy upgrades

Currently, there are a lot of upgraded vehicles already. A decision will have to be made on how to deal with these vehicles. Some options include but are not limited to;

 

• Resetting all vehicles entirely without compensation
• Resetting all vehicles entirely with $ compensation
• Resetting all vehicles entirely with parts as compensation
• Upgrading all vehicles to the appropriate part immediately

 

All of these choices are flawed in one way or another and present a challenge for implementing the concept.

 

IC or OOC lore

We use IC lore for vehicle brand, but what about performance parts? This is to be discussed.

 

Storage of items

Not having components means garages have to store their items somewhere, in order for them to be available when a customer needs them installed. Storing these in /pinv is not an option if there are many different part types available. It also makes them extremely vulnerable to thefts. A different solution might be required. CEF menus are an option here.

 

Truckers

Removing component requirements from garages, even if it only concerns performance modifications, has a significant impact on trucking companies and truckers. This needs to be monitored. One solution would be to allow designated shops/legal suppliers/garages to trade components in for specific performance parts. In that case, they would be mostly unaffected.

 

Scope

The solution below, for now, only focuses on performance improvements. This is because these are easier to deal with, as visual upgrades have such a huge variety of different options. In theory, this could be applied to visual upgrades as well, but this requires a lot more work. It would be easier to extend this to security upgrades and GPS upgrades.

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by mj2002

[Rhelli]

Absolutely, 100% supported. Garage menu is long overdue an overhaul. This'd provide way better roleplay opportunities and car chopping would become more than just means to make blades and lockpicks. Very nice suggestion, MJ!

[Cypher99]

It’s a well thought out idea and credit to thinking it up, but to me it seems we’re heading into the territory of being too complicated and borderline hyper realism. You’re trying to solve an issue of “forced interaction” but you’re suggesting to make the entire mechanic script even more difficult for people to modify their cars. People still want to be able to enjoy themselves when they are online, not have to go through 100 hoops to install a turbocharger or find a specific part for their car at a designated shop. It’s just too much in my opinion.

 

If shops want to RP specific parts and niche RP, they can. This doesn’t need to be forced onto everyone. Shops can operate much better than they do now, I agree. But this is an RP quality issue, not a need to make the entire system more complicated to force those interactions, which is ironically what you were trying to fix.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Cypher99

[mj2002]

45 minutes ago, Cypher99 said:

It’s a well thought out idea and credit to thinking it up, but to me it seems we’re heading into the territory of being too complicated and borderline hyper realism. You’re trying to solve an issue of “forced interaction” but you’re suggesting to make the entire mechanic script even more difficult for people to modify their cars. People still want to be able to enjoy themselves when they are online, not have to go through 100 hoops to install a turbocharger or find a specific part for their car at a designated shop. It’s just too much in my opinion.

 

If shops want to RP specific parts and niche RP, they can. This doesn’t need to be forced onto everyone. Shops can operate much better than they do now, I agree. But this is an RP quality issue, not a need to make the entire system more complicated to force those interactions, which is ironically what you were trying to fix.

 

What I am trying to fix is meaningless interaction. Going to a garage now, using the menu, and then waiting for your car to be fixed, that interaction is meaningless.

[Wuhtah]

I'd like to see the cons/pros of how everyone feels about this sort of revamp as some people do not like mechanic RP and do not want to stay there for longer than they should, and some are the complete opposites.

 

In the end, this is a video game and we shouldn't be forced to participate in roleplay that we do not enjoy if we can help it. 

 

(Please don't twist my words and say "WELL I DONT ENJOY GETTING ARRESTED, SO WHY SHOULD I BE FORCED TO RP" - ok bob, chill - stop doing criminal activity and you'll stop getting arrested)

[Paenymion]

I like the idea but I think it might be too much all at once.  How about a middle-ground (at least to start, as a trial) where upgrades 1-3 are generic, but level 4 is custom.  Then we implement your suggestion JUST for level 4 upgrades (they come from a supplier job, are actual script items, can be a reward from chopping and so on).  I think this would let people still get upgrades as they do now, but for those who really want to tune their car to the max, there will be extra RP and sourcing of parts.  Also, for the chopping aspect to actually be useful, we need to stop the ability for insta vparking because people with level 4 mods will just never leave their vehicle around.  Way too easy to just vpark it, then vget when you're back.

[Cypher99]

39 minutes ago, mj2002 said:

 

What I am trying to fix is meaningless interaction. Going to a garage now, using the menu, and then waiting for your car to be fixed, that interaction is meaningless.

It’s still going to be meaningless for people who don’t care for mechanic RP. You’re just forcing them to do more stuff they don’t care for. This is an RP quality issue. This could be fixed with better run garages that emphasize player interaction over running a machine that only exists to make money. You don’t need a complicated new system to do this. You need better garage owners that hire people who want to be there. I shouldn’t need a mechanic certification in real life to RP a mechanic and many garages have gotten to that point. Less focus on mechanic specifics, more focus on interacting with the player.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Cypher99

[Topinambour]

This here might just turn what many see as a burdening chore into a horribly overcomplicated burdening chore that can take months to get through :x 

We're heading far far into hyper-realism, potentially without even solving the initial problem of garage RP being seen by many as "annoying". As Cypher99 mentioned, interaction between players is what makes good RP and character development - not having over 2.000 item names :x 

A better emphasis on interaction/customer service may be a much much simpler solution with a higher success rate. 

 

On a purely personal level, I recently went to have my car fixed because it was IC'ly completely fucked up. Suspension screwed, back door messed up to hell and back, back windshield shattered, nasty shit. Instead of /vparking /vgett'ing, I decided to go get it RP'ly fixed at a garage. That meant leaving them the car for a while, paying $20k, but: I did it BECAUSE the garage offers come cool interactions and has interesting and genuine characters. Chatted about the damage, about the parts they'd need to order and the delays, about how it happened, laughed about a few freak accidents they saw, shared a few anecdotes, some tips about car driving and new models, ... none of that interaction was about having a Bravado Special Buffalo STX Spring Type 4 item in my inventory ^^' But all of it was really cool. Including the weird taxi who brought my character back home lol but it's another story. 

 

Honestly... if this system had been in place, and I'd have had to go around looking through 50000 different parts, I'd just have /vparked :x

[joaoivis]

Speaking of the illegal part it would be nice if a LEO agent could /examine the vehicle and check if the modded performance item was bought through a legal supplier (i.e. with an invoice and serial code) or if it is part of a stolen vehicle, so it would open more scenarios in which would be risky to have upgrade parts on the car but still rewarding on cheaper price. I love the idea overall, specially making performance upgrades real item and providing more depth into the roleplay.

 

I have no objection into modding the car yourself (bodykit, turbo, livery, rim and other small upgrades) if you own the proper toolkit and with strict rules. It's plain and simple, if you catch someone exploiting it, ban him. This is going to benefit the whole community.

 

The current status of mechanic roleplay is boring to interact with from a customer view.

[Cypher99]

2 hours ago, joaoivis said:

The current status of mechanic roleplay is boring to interact with from a customer view.

This will not be fixed with some overly complicated new script with 2000+ real custom items / car parts that can be put into vehicle inventories and role played. This is a role play quality issue that falls on the garage owners who run their businesses like crap, with so much focus on the mechanics and none of the focus on the customers. The unrealistically high standards with garages nowadays borderline on hyper realism for mechanic RP and that's what has led to a focus on mechanics who are more concerned with their 25 /me's to change an engine, rather than focusing on a meaningful interaction while the customer waits. Now iff you want to run a niche garage that runs on hyper realism, cool. I'm not one to stand in your way. I'm no judge. I'm sure there are some people who will appreciate that. I'm simply suggesting that the focus on hyper realism in how mechanics do their jobs has resulted in a complete neglect for the customer's experience.

 

Let's not forget that we've had businesses try this line of RP with creating custom car parts and putting them into the inventory and they hardly lasted a week. There was one in Paleto Bay that tried so hard to make it work. Hardly anyone went there. Thirteen ran his own specific / niche garage for a while and I imagine that they did not receive the amount of customers a normal garage would. @Thirteen please correct me if I'm wrong. The very niche group of people who care for this RP is going to be the only group this suggestion benefits, while the rest of the server tries to find workarounds to not have to deal with it. Sorry, but it is what it is.

 

tl;dr - This suggestion isn't necessary. Less technical mechanic stuff, more customer experience stuff. There shouldn't be a push for unrealistically high TECHNICAL standards on a garage to where garage owners feel they need to hire life-long IRL mechanics for that extra detailed /me in order not to get shut down. Approve garage owners who want to focus on customer interaction, not employing mindless, money-hungry mechanics who hardly put out a sentence when talking to a customer.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Cypher99