Your thoughts on law enforcement and jail?

[Kipps]

it's a jail 😞

implementing an afk timer won't improve jail rp. forcing people to be online will increase jail activity, but it won't improve standards of criminal rp necessarily. we need people with criminal characters to recognise that going to jail is a fundamental part of their characters story, not a pause in it. 

[Trupiano]

9 minutes ago, Amellis said:

I've seen that suggestion a few times, I can't say I agree with locking a character for a year, same as a month might look a bit excessive, but as far as I know such sentences are for serious crimes, if you don't want to serve a month of jail, just as an IRL criminal wouldn't want to serve 10 years for killing someone... There are other ways, like... Framing said person, extorting them (Not like business extortion, but rather "You open your mouth, that's the last thing you do" type of extortion, or simply do your best to avoid getting caught.

Keeping the current times, without inactivity affecting it, would be a good middle ground in my opinion.

Yeah but at the end of the day this is still a game and we play within the parameters the game dictates. LA county has a population of 10.5 Million, GTAW has a server cap of 1000. We'll never reach a playerbase amount that's able to replicate what is happening in real life. There will never be enough prisoners, enough guards, enough time in the day for everyone involved to hop on at the same time and replicate the realistic activity of the LA county jail. Let's drop all the roleplay buzzwords and boil this down to brass tax.

 

This discussion is primarily driven by legal players who are tired of being the constant victims of crime. They want to see sentence times go up so that the crime rate goes down. But like I said, at the end of the day this is a game. People are going to do whatever is enjoyable for them. If jail isn't enjoyable, they'll just play a different character. "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime" means nothing on a video game where I can just /changechar the minute I enter my jail cell. I learn nothing from my sentence because I don't actually have to serve it. I'm in agreement with you that keeping the same times but removing the offline timers would be a good middle ground but this is a topic where you have to do a lot of convincing on the other side and sadly a lot of people don't want to believe a word any criminal RPer says. We're chalked up to a bunch of assholes who find enjoyment in ruining other people experience which couldn't be farther from the truth.

[WooWoo]

I do believe increasing sentences would help a bit, as well as make it mandatory to be online to serve your sentence. As both a Custody Deputy and a lifer, it's hard not to notice that there's rarely a familiar face in the county jail. People are processed and indeed they just head offline to do other things while their sentence ticks down offline or they just aren't around long enough to have significant RP with. There's a symbiotic relationship between inmates and deputies that I believe can further enhance the storylines and pleasure of roleplay if players were actually there to experience their time served.

 

Sure there's limiting factors in the current TTCF that doesn't permit for more in depth roleplay but as it stands now, there's definitely enough to be occupied for a good amount of time, even for a random Joe Schmoe who committed a petty crime. I mean it's not rocket science people. Jail has such potential for good development for characters why not make the best of it.

[Amellis]

27 minutes ago, Kipps said:

it's a jail 😞

implementing an afk timer won't improve jail rp. forcing people to be online will increase jail activity, but it won't improve standards of criminal rp necessarily. we need people with criminal characters to recognise that going to jail is a fundamental part of their characters story, not a pause in it. 

Implementing an afk timer would prevent players from afking through their sentences, forcing people to take responsability of your acts because they have consequences is something I'm pretty sure mostly everyone learns from a very young age, the problem here is those consequences are too arbitrary / easy to avoid.

25 minutes ago, Henning said:

Yeah but at the end of the day this is still a game and we play within the parameters the game dictates. LA county has a population of 10.5 Million, GTAW has a server cap of 1000. We'll never reach a playerbase amount that's able to replicate what is happening in real life. There will never be enough prisoners, enough guards, enough time in the day for everyone involved to hop on at the same time and replicate the realistic activity of the LA county jail. Let's drop all the roleplay buzzwords and boil this down to brass tax.

 

This discussion is primarily driven by legal players who are tired of being the constant victims of crime. They want to see sentence times go up so that the crime rate goes down. But like I said, at the end of the day this is a game. People are going to do whatever is enjoyable for them. If jail isn't enjoyable, they'll just play a different character. "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime" means nothing on a video game where I can just /changechar the minute I enter my jail cell. I learn nothing from my sentence because I don't actually have to serve it. I'm in agreement with you that keeping the same times but removing the offline timers would be a good middle ground but this is a topic where you have to do a lot of convincing on the other side and sadly a lot of people don't want to believe a word any criminal RPer says. We're chalked up to a bunch of assholes who find enjoyment in ruining other people experience which couldn't be farther from the truth.

I'm not looking to convince people about "more jail is good", I've been for the most part a legal RPer indeed, just the way my legal RP has been barely affected by criminal acts.
What I'm looking for is not a city without crime, it's a city with realistic crime, I know not everyone runs around in a bf400 all dressed in black and looking for someone to kill, just the same as I know that happens way more than it should. And what I think is the reason that happens is because that people know, or believe there's a very slim chance of them having any consequences.

 

When I said "if you don't want to serve a month of jail, just as an IRL criminal wouldn't want to serve 10 years for killing someone... There are other ways" I mean literally that. Using the example I just gave, instead of two guys with automatics in the fastest cheap bike, why not lure the victim into a dark alley, get him distracted and smack him in the head with a brick? Then get a van or a car to carry the victim to the middle of the Zancudo river, slice his throat open and toss the body into the river? The outcome is the same, but you aren't shooting a gun *which realistically can be heard from a long distance, reduced by city noises and buildings blocking the waves, but still decent enough* in the middle of a first world metropolis, where realistically you'd have cops on the spot before you can clean evidences.

Because someone could predict it's a trap and fight back? Well, that's how the world works, you don't always win, specially if you don't put effort. 

 

Edit: Just wanted to add, in a realistic setting, like the one the server tries to accomplish, a kill shouldn't be the solution of all problems, but another problem to take care of.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Amellis

[RufioCas]

We already have obnoxious jail times, and this is especially frustrating if you're roleplaying a female in a gang, and end up getting locked up for one reason or another. You'll get absolutely no roleplay as a female, and even if you're a male character there isn't jail coverage 24/7 by people in your car, and increasing jail times will only further demotivate illegal roleplayers in jail's current state. I also do not particularly agree with the whole "anti-murder" mentality that's being pushed by OP considering LA murder rate is still sky high(although nowhere near as high as GTAW but it's a game at the end of the day). A street gang will never actually bother with what you've just described, that's poor portrayal. Street gangs are full of coked out teens that don't sit and plan their murders. Most gang shootouts aren't elaborate acts.

 

in the middle of a first world metropolis, where realistically you'd have cops on the spot before you can clean evidences.

Compton LASD ambush didn't receive any police response until the deputy who was shot called a 998(deputy needs assistance).

 

[L I C E]

Personally, I think someone needs to go around and add a lot of CCTV cameras to most streets and places, like has been done with props to cover up all the stunt jump locations on highways and roads. Most streets and most places in this day and age have CCTV cameras overlooking the streets. You won't get robbed in the middle of Vinewood or shot dead at your apartment door like you're living in a Brazilian favela. Criminals should need to operate more carefully, and CCTV - even if you're masked, should be something to be aware of. I'd even advocate that some sort of server ping needs to be printed posting your location for admins when you mask up and when you take your mask off, so that it can be verified where you "disappeared" and where you "reappeared" for the sake of tracking down CCTV cameras and seeing whether or not you'd be seen masking up or taking it off.

The SD and PD have a lot of tools to stop scenarios, but have absolutely 0 to investigate crimes. IRL, it's the opposite - police investigate crime, they don't necessarily stop it. The saying "when seconds matter, the police are minutes away" comes to mind. There needs to be better tools in place to deter criminals from doing stupid shit in public places.

[Trupiano]

1 minute ago, Amellis said:

instead of two guys with automatics in the fastest cheap bike, why not lure the victim into a dark alley, get him distracted and smack him in the head with a brick? Then get a van or a car to carry the victim to the middle of the Zancudo river, slice his throat open and toss the body into the river? The outcome is the same, but you aren't shooting a gun

OR I track someone down to a nightclub and shoot them on their way out then speed off in a getaway car. Avoiding possibly getting caught in the alley or getting caught with an unconscious person in my trunk or getting caught slitting someone's throat at the river. I know that's not what you want to hear but what I've stated is far more realistic, what your describing is something out of the movie or TV. Is what you've described more interesting and cool? Yeah. But that's not the goal. The goal is not to get caught and every step you've described only increases the chances of getting caught.

 

You can't say "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime" and then suggest doing the crime in a way that only increases your chances of getting caught. What is the focus here, is it really making it so criminals have to think about their actions or do people just not like that they're character didn't get a movie style ending. Maybe that's not what you believe, but I assure you there are many people in this community who's real main gripe is that and they simply use discussion about Jail and sentencing as a cover for it.

[Amellis]

20 minutes ago, RufioCas said:

We already have obnoxious jail times, and this is especially frustrating if you're roleplaying a female in a gang, and end up getting locked up for one reason or another. You'll get absolutely no roleplay as a female, and even if you're a male character there isn't jail coverage 24/7 by people in your car, and increasing jail times will only further demotivate illegal roleplayers in jail's current state. I also do not particularly agree with the whole "anti-murder" mentality that's being pushed by OP considering LA murder rate is still sky high(although nowhere near as high as GTAW but it's a game at the end of the day). A street gang will never actually bother with what you've just described, that's poor portrayal. Street gangs are full of coked out teens that don't sit and plan their murders. Most gang shootouts aren't elaborate acts.

 

 

 

Compton LASD ambush didn't receive any police response until the deputy who was shot called a 998(deputy needs assistance).

 

Of course that wouldn't make much sense for a gang, that's why jails trend to be packed with gangbangers, that was just an example.

 

17 minutes ago, Henning said:

OR I track someone down to a nightclub and shoot them on their way out then speed off in a getaway car. Avoiding possibly getting caught in the alley or getting caught with an unconscious person in my trunk or getting caught slitting someone's throat at the river. I know that's not what you want to hear but what I've stated is far more realistic, what your describing is something out of the movie or TV. Is what you've described more interesting and cool? Yeah. But that's not the goal. The goal is not to get caught and every step you've described only increases the chances of getting caught.

 

You can't say "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime" and then suggest doing the crime in a way that only increases your chances of getting caught. What is the focus here, is it really making it so criminals have to think about their actions or do people just not like that they're character didn't get a movie style ending. Maybe that's not what you believe, but I assure you there are many people in this community who's real main gripe is that and they simply use discussion about Jail and sentencing as a cover for it.

My main focus was about jail times, how the law enforcement deals with crimes and how I think the changes I mentioned could change RP, it drifted more towards the crime itself, which I guess it's still related, this is why I made a discussion and not an actual suggestion, I give my opinion and ask for others.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Amellis

[RufioCas]

Just now, Amellis said:

Of course that wouldn't make much sense for a gang, that's why jails trend to be packed with gangbangers, that was just an example.

But LA street gangs are still deep despite all those bangers being locked up. I'll give you an in-game example, there's a specific gang that only has 3 people on the streets right now. You might say that's an "IC issue" but it's also an OOC issue because it essentially puts a halt to the gang's activities. Detectives locking you up on "suspicion" and having you go through a case that can take up to a month is honestly not a far fetched concept on this server. You complain about "illegal roleplay being in a poor state" while advocating to punish them more on the same thread.

 

Adding an AFK kick will only result in people tabbing in every now and again to throw a random /me to avoid the kick. It won't actually encourage any roleplay. This one in specific;

 

Also make it so jail time doesn't go through if you're offline, it's well known many players simply log off until their time is over and get released with no RP,

Is quite wrong, actually. Illegal roleplayers(the ones that're in factions) actively roleplay in jail. There are even a lot of illegal roleplayers who have dedicated lifer characters(including me).

 

Going to jail would have an actual impact in everyone's roleplay, hopefully reduce the amount of third-world crime we have such as drive-by murderers in the middle of a metropolis.

Drive-by shootings are still a thing in LA, I don't know if you're basing anything you're saying on actual research.

 

It makes no sense to rob someone at gun point in Legion Square, doesn't matter if it's 3 A.M

Precisely, and that's poor portrayal, not an IC issue. You should be reporting that person(s).

 

 

 

drive by shooting, I can include a lot more articles, videos but it's real, and it happens. Do not expect people to roleplay your expectation, and paint it as "what's realistic" please.

[DasFroggy]

19 minutes ago, RufioCas said:

Adding an AFK kick will only result in people tabbing in every now and again to throw a random /me to avoid the kick. It won't actually encourage any roleplay.

Cool.

 

People who do that are clearly not here to roleplay, so we do not need to worry about whether they will abide the AFK timer or not. If they are found AFKing and gaming the timer, they can be punished for breaking server rules.

 

Removing people that are not interested in roleplaying in a roleplay server is hard to construe as anything other than an absolute win.

Edited February 17, 2021 by DasFroggy