Your thoughts on law enforcement and jail?

[eTaylor]

17 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

Then being mugged should not be forced currently either. Again, you are arguing that one side deserves control over others, but that others should not in turn be allowed any control because, according to you, that would not be "fun" to do.

 

It is not fun being mugged by most. So, it should not be forced. If there is no issue with forcing a person to be mugged, then I see no issue with forcing muggers to spend a fraction of their prison sentence IC. 

So because you don't like to be mugged, I should be forced to spend months on end in jail? 

[Topiyo]

I'm struggling to understand how you correlate a 5 minute robbery with 5 days of prison time. 

 

18 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

Again, you are arguing that one side deserves control over others, but that others should not in turn be allowed any control

What control do you gain by forcing people to role play in prison? You aren't part of the role play... Are you after OOC satisfaction? Your argument once again hasn't registered with me.

[Zani]

On 2/18/2021 at 9:11 AM, undefined said:

 

Just a small opinion on this topic above.

 

By meaning that cops need to roleplay emotion, we're not talking about cops crying because you shot at them or anything like that. Yeah, you're trained, but you're a human being. A human who has opinions on things, on neighborhoods, on the car you're pulling over, wondering where you're going, how much was the car. Cops ask these questions intentionally, yeah - but our cops base their traffic stops and interactions on 3-4 basic sentences being:

 

Evening, sir. License and registration...

Can you please step out of the car?

We'll be giving you a ticket for insert traffic violation, you have 72 hours to pay it at any goverment building or online, by paying you admit guilt and you can't contest it in court.

 

Cops just need to spice up their characters with more personality and realism, to depict what a real-life LA cop is doing on his regular, yeah - cops on the first interaction are pretty boring people, but they're not coming down to 4 lines of text and a command for writing tickets and searching you and your car for guns. People need to actually develop their characters on the events that happen, and not just stay the same dude doing the same traffic stops to the same people in order to get them in jail. You're here to create RP, not chase anyone who doesn't look like a civi roleplayer. More realism into the LA cop characters and more developing is what's gonna get the faction better, not anything else. 

 

If a bad mindset is glorified in a faction, then the people who are doing the right thing will never get a chance to be noticed or influence anyone else. People who are in SD's teams that are making faction related decisions are all very expirienced legal roleplayers who influence the lowers members into following the good roleplay , they also put a really good job at filtering out the bad apples by actually gettird rid of them, I hope PD isn't reverse to this.

 

I have a few points to respond to on this;

 

1. Traffic stops are a BAD way to judge a police officer's roleplay/character. The truth of the matter is, no cop wants to be standing on the side of the road. Every time I've been pulled over, they got straight to business. 'I'm Officer X, you know why I pulled you over? -- You did X and X, you can't do that. Can I see your license?' Then, the officer proceeded to return to his vehicle, write up a ticket, give it to me and inform me of the decisions I can make with such a ticket. If you really want to judge a police officer's roleplay, interact with them when they're not on a call, possibly on break or just idling by.

 

2. I strongly disagree with the notion that people need to depict 'LA' police officers. People should be developing their own roleplay, based off of inspiration from the United States law enforcement culture itself. Copy pasting things from Los Angeles is very bad for roleplay opportunities IMO. This is Los Santos, a fictional city in the fictional State of San Andreas in the United States of America.

 

3. This one is not based on the quote above, but just want to give my two cents in. I agree with what @Engelbertsaid. Not every cop really cares about the district they work in. Sure, some do, but don't expect police to really go out of their way to do something for someone. Don't expect police to really give you a shoulder to cry on or care about your character's problems. They have problems of their own. They have seen such things over and over again. They come across the worst people that society has to offer; repeat offenders, child abusers, murderers, people with literally no heart. Just like I wouldn't expect a civilian or a criminal to care about anyone, I don't expect a cop to care about anyone. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Saccs

[eTaylor]

4 minutes ago, Topiyo said:

I'm struggling to understand how you correlate a 5 minute robbery with 5 days of prison time. 

 

Not only that, people are missing the bigger picture. This is a large server with people coming from all walks of life and different situations. The way jail works right now is by far one of the best compromises I've ever seen that manages to satisfy the greatest number of people. The argument that's being made is also just telling people like me that I shouldn't be playing GTA W, or stop playing a criminal period. A simple DUI with a little bit of chalk can escalate to a 68 hour sentence. Thanks to the timer continuing while offline and a system that doesn't automatically release you you're given options. You can roleplay in jail, if so desired. Or just take a break for a day or two, still having to term the consequences of your crime. Or what I usually do - take it to court and kill two birds with one stone. In the absence of such a system a sentence of 68 hours can and will easily turn into a 34 day stint for a swath of people.  

[DasFroggy]

16 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

I should be forced to spend months on end in jail? 

Who said anything about months?

 

17 minutes ago, Topiyo said:

You aren't part of the role play...

Apparently the person being mugged not only is not allowed to have fun, but they also cannot be considered part of the roleplay. Neat!

 

18 minutes ago, Topiyo said:

What control do you gain by forcing people to role play in prison?

 

What control do you gain by forcing a person to remain during a mugging?

 

My issue here, is that whatever the outcome, the victim of a mugging has to deal with the consequences of the mugging regardless of how unfun they can be. When the same risk of unfun consequences are suggested for the other side however, suddenly fun is a factor and an excuse as to why consequences absolutely cannot be.

 

Yes, you CKed that person because they ran away, and now they can never roleplay that character ever again, but that apparently can never compare to you having to spend three IC realtime hours in prison because you tried mugging someone without checking your surroundings for cops prior to being caught.

 

For sure.

[eTaylor]

1 minute ago, DasFroggy said:

Who said anything about months?

 

Me, like I said; a simple DUI with a little bit of chalk can escalate to a 68 hour sentence. Thanks to the timer continuing while offline and a system that doesn't automatically release you you're given options. You can roleplay in jail, if so desired. Or just take a break for a day or two, still having to term the consequences of your crime. Or what I usually do - take it to court and kill two birds with one stone. In the absence of such a system a sentence of 68 hours can and will easily turn into a 34 day stint for a swath of people.  

[DasFroggy]

4 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

Me, like I said; a simple DUI with a little bit of chalk can escalate to a 68 hour sentence. Thanks to the timer continuing while offline and a system that doesn't automatically release you you're given options. You can roleplay in jail, if so desired. Or just take a break for a day or two, still having to term the consequences of your crime. Or what I usually do - take it to court and kill two birds with one stone. In the absence of such a system a sentence of 68 hours can and will easily turn into a 34 day stint for a swath of people. 

Cool.

 

None of that is what is what is being asked for. The proposal is a PERCENTAGE  of total prison time needing to be spent IC. So at Sixty eight hours sentenced, that would be one hour total of IC time. 

 

It's enough to bog down the rampant low-quality crime with tangible consequences, but not enough to really be a disincentive for smarter, higher quality roleplayers.

[eTaylor]

1 minute ago, DasFroggy said:

Cool.

 

None of that is what is what is being asked for. The proposal is a PERCENTAGE  of total prison time needing to be spent IC. So at Sixty eight hours sentenced, that would be one hour total of IC time. 

 

It's enough to bog down the rampant low-quality crime with tangible consequences, but not enough to really be a disincentive for smarter, higher quality roleplayers.

And that's where your position, to me, seems flawed and fundamentally wrong. You propose that 1.4% of a 68h sentence should be spent In-Game. What is that number based off, and why? If we're going to have a conversation we should understand each other clearly, so I'll ask you to define the two you mentioned. You're talking about rampant low-quality crime with tangible consequences, I'm going to assume you define that as people who in this context commit a robbery with subpar roleplay. Utilize undesirable or unrealistic tactics, and generally are unpleasant or otherwise internet gangbangers when confronted. Is that correct? You're also talking about smarter, higher quality roleplayers. Does this describe people who just have a well put together character, and put effort into their roleplay? Or are you talking about "smart" crime? 

[DasFroggy]

11 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

And that's where your position, to me, seems flawed and fundamentally wrong. You propose that 1.4% of a 68h sentence should be spent In-Game. What is that number based off, and why? If we're going to have a conversation we should understand each other clearly, so I'll ask you to define the two you mentioned. You're talking about rampant low-quality crime with tangible consequences, I'm going to assume you define that as people who in this context commit a robbery with subpar roleplay. Utilize undesirable or unrealistic tactics, and generally are unpleasant or otherwise internet gangbangers when confronted. Is that correct? You're also talking about smarter, higher quality roleplayers. Does this describe people who just have a well put together character, and put effort into their roleplay? Or are you talking about "smart" crime? 

Easier to just simplify the points.

 

Either criminals should have tangible, unfun consequences for making mistakes, or civilians should not.

 

As long as a risk of CK is on the table if a civilian does anything short of suicide by attacking the criminal, the proposal for a percentage of prison time being mandatory IC will be a position I support.

 

Anything less than equal, is by the standards set by the previous poster, not fun.

Edited February 19, 2021 by DasFroggy

[eTaylor]

4 minutes ago, DasFroggy said:

Easier to just simplify the points.

 

Either criminals should need tangible, unfun consequences for making mistakes, or civilians should not.

 

As long as a risk of CK is on the table if a civilian does anything short of suicide by attacking the criminal, the proposal for a percentage of prison time being mandatory IC will be a position I support.

 

Anything less than equal, is by the standards set by the previous poster, not fun.

But what constitutes a mistake? Jail and police interactions are important aspects for criminal roleplayers, why should certain roleplay be labeled a mistake? And doesn't the idea that you should be able to do anything short of suicided by attacking the criminal go against being a smarter, higher quality roleplayer? The topic of what is and isn't fun isn't a discussion you can meaningfully have, predominantly because "fun" isn't a real tangible factor. What is fun to you, might not be fun to another person. It's a trap to fall into that conversation because you'll get stuck going in circles indefinitely.