The Police Department & You

[SpartanofSparta]

Just now, Jola said:

I don't see what is the point of being a detective if you're only going to ride around in an unmarked 24/7 doing traffic stops or calling out shootouts but if that floats your boat then fine but I'm sure that there are people willing to do it so other avenues should be created to allow them to

I can personally assure you from my time in the Judiciary and seeing the warrants they put out, there’s a lot more than that going on.

[Zach..]

 

 

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Just now, Jola said:

 

 

That is understandable and if this is the case other factions should be allowed to handle those aspects of roleplay if they want to, new factions can even be created to handle it, I don't see what is the point of being a detective if you're only going to ride around in an unmarked 24/7 doing traffic stops or calling out shootouts but if that floats your boat then fine but I'm sure that there are people willing to do it so other avenues should be created to allow them to

I guarantee you that if there is a detective on duty, they are actively working on cases. We have probably around 8 detectives, max. Their not as common as you think.

[Big_Smokes]

Just now, Jola said:

I'm not demanding anything I'm making suggestions which is the purpose of this topic if you're fine with your department... delete the topic lol 

 

Do you have the desire to do paperwork? I'm pretty sure you don't but you do it anyway for the sake of roleplay.

 

That is understandable and if this is the case other factions should be allowed to handle those aspects of roleplay if they want to, new factions can even be created to handle it, I don't see what is the point of being a detective if you're only going to ride around in an unmarked 24/7 doing traffic stops or calling out shootouts but if that floats your boat then fine but I'm sure that there are people willing to do it so other avenues should be created to allow them to

I'm lost at how this got here but I read through your previous reply. The reason why not much is done with bodies that are found is because there physically isn't anything that can be done with them. The body script doesn't give any relevant information that produces leads and until the full script is in there's nothing that can be done.

 

To give you an example, when you've collected a body, you don't even know the OOC name of the person that died so you can't actually PM them to figure out what happened to them. There are no logs attached to the bodies either, so we can't ask an admin for the name. The body itself doesn't supply any information other then the cause of death.

 

All bodies found and called in are taken to the morgue. So they're always taken care of. What I can't ask of people is to produce something out of nothing.

[Big_Smokes]

On 4/6/2020 at 11:08 AM, MikeyMike said:

My personal gripe with the police on the server is that the officers pulling me over or anyone else for that matter aren't nearly as nosy and curious as they should be. They act like scripted robots. "License and registration, plz. Hang tight while I write you a ticket. Here you go. Good day."

Watch any cop show ever (or if you've ever been pulled over in your life) and you'll know that cops ask a thousand questions. Where are you coming from? Where are you headed? Why there? Where's home? Have you had anything to drink? Are there any weapons in the vehicle? Take on a role of a public protector whose job it is to ask questions in order to determine whether this person is involved in anything they shouldn't be involved in. That's the one area I'm hoping the PD improves on in the future.

 

I know what you're saying but there sometimes genuinely is no reason for it. If you look up actual videos (bodycam, dashcam, anything) of police officers that are doing a traffic stop for a traffic offense, where there is no reason to suspect anything other then them having committed a traffic offense, that is about the length of the traffic stop. ''You did this, here's your ticket, appear in court or pay it, have a good day''. Don't look to TV shows too much to give you an example of what real life policing is like, because sometimes they're genuinely only things that happen on TV.

 

 

- RE the report writing thing, was already covered by Westen. Although there is a standardized guide on report writing, we don't check every single report that is sent in. There may be inconsistencies, I wouldn't be surprised if there were. He's recently set up a training program & we've set up a feedback loop system in operations bureau that will do wonders in catching people writing insufficient reports.

 

5 hours ago, shiroq said:

30 odd bodies found a day, yet somehow we have 8 officers drag racing and getting suspended for it. We have officers constantly pulling people over for simple tints and all kinds of other minor things wasting their time. If there is lack of resources to deal with on going things, why are certain resources not being diverted to where it matters?

 

8 officers, in character, hosted an event that shouldn't have occurred due to a lack of permit and permission. That's 8 out of my 139 faction members. SULLI, although I appreciated his answer, kind of misrepresented the situation. Like I said in my previous reply, 9/10 times bodies aren't investigated any further because there simply isn't anything to go off of & no way OOC to get any information either. There is nothing my faction can change about that, It's a script issue.

 

Also, we follow the LAPD style rank structure. Which means detective isn't a baseline rank like for example in the NYPD or other large police departments. Detective is a senior non command rank that takes a long time to achieve. We have a plethora of uniformed police officers as intelligence officers in the Area Detectives Division who write up reports which are later looked into by detectives. Often times however there simply aren't any leads to go off (like for example with the bodies) so there's no point in anyone wasting their time on it, resources being available or no. Just like in real life.

 

2 hours ago, Henning said:

The good old "Take it IC bud".

 

Damn we must have some pretty dangerous people on the roads because if there was "Good reason" for that man cruisers involved in the chase when it was in an area with a high volume of pedestrians, a high number of complex intersections and multiple choke points?

 

Why can't some of those units be setting up roadblocks or using other means to stop a chase? Why does there need to be 10-15 cars performing PIT maneuvers? 

 

10-15 cars shouldn't be. We have several IC protocols that cover this, for example being that any units outside of the initial four should never mix into the pursuit line unless exigent circumstances. He's got a point. One recurring thing on this thread is people witness one instance of this happening and draw up all sorts of conclusions. High likelihood this was a pursuit following shots fired and that there were metropolitan units mixing in to take over primary. Could be the pursuit had only just been called in so units had not diverted to intercept yet. Plethora of reasons.

 

Even if it wasn't, it could've simply been a mistake that was yet to be corrected by supervisors. People who join this faction don't get 6 months of irl academy training followed up by 12 months of being on probation. They will make mistakes, I can guarantee that, and especially in the more high pressure situations. We're in the process of hosting more consistent trainings to prevent this. It used to be not this bad but our faction has been growing exponentially and we're, in some places, still playing catch up providing the right amount of care / guidance for our members.

46 minutes ago, Jola said:

First off you can't rely on the people to solve your problems for you, just like any other faction you have a whole range of leaders (even more than most) who're suppose to develop ways to make their department more realistic, saying that most bodies are bugs is a lame excuse, as far as I know you can identify how someone died just weed out the realistic deaths roleplay around it, saying that there is a lack of people who want to investigate is also bogus because there are unmarked SUV roaming South Central 24/7 itching to hear a gunshot, what other purposes do they serve, what pressure is being put on prostitution and organized crime two widely active sectors of the community, the emphasis has to be put on roleplay not just acting as if this is a police simulation mod.

Unmarked doesn't equal investigator. Rest is answered above.

 

There's plenty pressure being put on Organized Crime, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's there. We've been ramping up the pressure a lot lately. I try to stay in contact with a lot of people in the illegal sector to make sure from an OOC perspective the roleplay and all of that good stuff we supply is actually working out, because I can't see everything for myself. I take their feedback and pass it down the chain regularly.

 

''the emphasis has to be put on roleplay not just acting as if this is a police simulation mod.'' - Literally has nothing to do with any of the stuff you said above. Read the original post of this thread.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Big_Smokes

[shiroq]

9 minutes ago, Big_Smokes said:

Also, we follow the LAPD style rank structure. Which means detective isn't a baseline rank like for example in the NYPD or other large police departments. Detective is a senior non command rank that takes a long time to achieve. We have a plethora of uniformed police officers as intelligence officers in the Area Detectives Division who write up reports which are later looked into by detectives. Often times however there simply aren't any leads to go off (like for example with the bodies) so there's no point in anyone wasting their time on it, resources being available or no. Just like in real life.

Talking about detectives, why has there never been any take downs of factions? Having roleplayed for a year on this server as a criminal, I think every criminal is wondering that because let's be honest certain factions commit more than obvious crimes that everyone see's and knows about but there has never been huge stings or busts except the recent one with Michael Lev which came from a silly situation and it was luck and not investigative work being done. I guess you answered that above, my bad but still I hope something actually comes out of it because it has not for a long time.

Edited April 15, 2020 by shiroq

[Big_Smokes]

6 minutes ago, shiroq said:

Talking about detectives, why has there never been any take downs of factions? Having roleplayed for a year on this server as a criminal, I think every criminal is wondering that because let's be honest certain factions commit more than obvious crimes that everyone see's and knows about but there has never been huge stings or busts except the recent one with Michael Lev which came from a silly situation and it was luck and not investigative work being done.

 

Because ''take downs'' as they are in the traditional way from other communities will never be done here. I was an OCVD detective for about 4 years on a different community. I can tell you from experience that often times it takes about 9 months to a year in order to do all the investigative work to do one of these take downs.

 

A lot of factions have irregular activity which makes it very difficult for us to build a case, or they close before we even have the chance to build a case. Don't forget we actually have to come across a faction IC and find out that they're part of a group before we would open any type of wider investigation on them. The closest we've come to shutting down a big legitimate faction is when we flipped a guy who gave up a lot of information that was corroborated by prior intelligence work. That faction shut down while we were about a month away from building a racketeering case on them. (Mind you, Brett and members of the detective bureau had to sit down OOCly and actually make a racketeering act kind of thing because there wasn't one at the time)

 

There's also what you can see and what you can prove. If someone dies, as in PKs, then that's that. Like I've covered above, the forensics system doesn't give us any opportunity atm to follow up with the body. So that doesn't help. That aside, what got us 99% of the takedowns was wire taps & proper buy busts. There is no such script support for us which is a major limitation that makes it practically impossible to take any major organization down without one or two high level informants giving them up in their entirety. We get those once in a blue moon and honestly? I always have my guys do background checks on CI's to ensure they are informing for legit IC reasons and not just because they are OOCly disgruntled with their faction. 50% don't pass that usually. The only thing I've been able to do that doesn't require script support is encourage more proactivity in buy busts, which we've been doing.

 

I'm gonna level with you here. Doing surveillance, as in being out in the field and following people around, is an incredibly difficult, time consuming way (you follow people for hours on end who just go about their day) that usually doesn't get you anything other then links between people. Yes, you will occasionally happen across a deal or two, but these require you to put literal hours upon hours in. Wire taps are absolutely crucial to be able to put even a dent in any type of organized crime faction, and we don't have them. That's all there is to it.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Big_Smokes

[Jari13X]

We don't need takedowns, we need arrest, indictments, injunctions, seizures

[Big_Smokes]

2 minutes ago, Jola said:

We don't need takedowns, we need arrest, indictments, injunctions, seizures

Which we already do and are otherwise working on. I've answered this in my previous reply already. Most times factions don't stick around long enough for us to build up enough on them to go forth with these, and a lot of things that would normally lead to an injunction are actually against server rules.

 

Please read the original post of this topic.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Big_Smokes

[shiroq]

19 minutes ago, Big_Smokes said:

Because ''take downs'' as they are in the traditional way from other communities will never be done here. I was an OCVD detective for about 4 years on a different community. I can tell you from experience that often times it takes about 9 months to a year in order to do all the investigative work to do one of these take downs.

 

A lot of factions have irregular activity which makes it very difficult for us to build a case, or they close before we even have the chance to build a case. Don't forget we actually have to come across a faction IC and find out that they're part of a group before we would open any type of wider investigation on them. The closest we've come to shutting down a big legitimate faction is when we flipped a guy who gave up a lot of information that was corroborated by prior intelligence work. That faction shut down while we were about a month away from building a racketeering case on them. (Mind you, Brett and members of the detective bureau had to sit down OOCly and actually make a racketeering act kind of thing because there wasn't one at the time)

 

There's also what you can see and what you can prove. If someone dies, as in PKs, then that's that. Like I've covered above, the forensics system doesn't give us any opportunity atm to follow up with the body. So that doesn't help. That aside, what got us 99% of the takedowns was wire taps & proper buy busts. There is no such script support for us which is a major limitation that makes it practically impossible to take any major organization down without one or two high level informants giving them up in their entirety. We get those once in a blue moon and honestly? I always have my guys do background checks on CI's to ensure they are informing for legit IC reasons and not just because they are OOCly disgruntled with their faction. 50% don't pass that usually. The only thing I've been able to do that doesn't require script support is encourage more proactivity in buy busts, which we've been doing.

 

I'm gonna level with you here. Doing surveillance, as in being out in the field and following people around, is an incredibly difficult, time consuming way (you follow people for hours on end who just go about their day) that usually doesn't get you anything other then links between people. Yes, you will occasionally happen across a deal or two, but these require you to put literal hours upon hours in. Wire taps are absolutely crucial to be able to put even a dent in any type of organized crime faction, and we don't have them. That's all there is to it.

Surveilence is difficult but it's part of the job (Officers should not be joining PD on a promise that they get to shoot guns for free without real consequence of them dying). You say it's difficult but it's not like criminals are void of that, people often spend an hour sitting in a car waiting for their higher up to do some sort of business meeting and all they do is stand around and not do a single thing. Is it boring? Absolutely but that's part of the immersion of being a criminal and sometimes you have to do boring things if you want to have high level of roleplay.

Why there is no real undercover cops that try to get into factions, there must be a way to achieve something like this somehow.

 

Another thing I was going to add in my previous post, community aspect. Majority of officers are robocops and let's not attribute that to PD hating or memeing, it's true. There are many good officers with good rp but there is A LOT that are not portraying a character and are just  cop #1, cop #2 and you couldn't tell a difference between them if you did /blindflod and hid their name tags.

The racing thing, why does PD not do community events? Why do officers that go down to bust up an illegal street race not tell them "hey, get a permit and set it up with us we will join you and have some fun legally?" Why no one does that? There needs to be pressure from the management of PD to actually do things that will create roleplay will make things more fun for everyone.

The last thing, what's up with PD officers driving fancy cars?

I cannot fully confirm this so i am not pointing fingers at anyone but i have seen sports cars outside PD over and over again. What happened to realism? Because you will not be able to show me any officers of the law turning up to their work  in an equivelent of a Porsche GT3 RS (Comet RS) 

Yes it is a game but just like any other faction in game no matter their assets they should follow the guidelines of realism and portray their character realistically because otherwise might as well get Nervous to add PD versions of Pariahs and go down that road if PD has unlimited budget.

Edited April 15, 2020 by shiroq

[Big_Smokes]

14 minutes ago, shiroq said:

Surveilence is difficult but it's part of the job (Officers should not be joining PD on a promise that they get to shoot guns for free without real consequence of them dying). You say it's difficult but it's not like criminals are void of that, people often spend an hour sitting in a car waiting for their higher up to do some sort of business meeting and all they do is stand around and not do a single thing. Is it boring? Absolutely but that's part of the immersion of being a criminal and sometimes you have to do boring things if you want to have high level of roleplay.

Why there is no real undercover cops that try to get into factions, there must be a way to achieve something like this somehow.

 

Another thing I was going to add in my previous post, community aspect. Majority of officers are robocops and let's not attribute that to PD hating or memeing, it's true. There are many good officers with good rp but there is A LOT that are not portraying a character and are just  cop #1, cop #2 and you couldn't tell a difference between them if you did /blindflod and hid their name tags.

The racing thing, why does PD not do community events? Why do officers that go down to bust up an illegal street race not tell them "hey, get a permit and set it up with us we will join you and have some fun legally?" Why no one does that? There needs to be pressure from the management of PD to actually do things that will create roleplay will make things more fun for everyone.

The last thing, what's up with PD officers driving fancy cars?

I cannot fully confirm this so i am not pointing fingers at anyone but i have seen sports cars outside PD over and over again. What happened to realism? Because you will not be able to show me any officers of the law turning up to their work an an equivelent of a Porsche GT3 RS (Comet RS) 

Yes it is a game but just like any other faction in game no matter their assets they should follow the guidelines of realism and portray their character realistically because otherwise might as well get Nervous to add PD versions of Pariahs and go down that road if PD has unlimited budget.

Point 1 - I actually roleplay a detective on my alt character. I never said I have an aversion to doing surveillance, but I do hope you understand that spending 8 hours a day following someone on a game is not something everyone can do, is very time consuming and like I said, you can't make something out of nothing. I feel like you really missed my point there.

 

Point 2 - Because I've not allowed anyone to go undercover. It's a massive OOC hassle (there are a lot of hoops to jump through to prevent metagaming & incitement of it) and it's a genuinely overpowered tool. I've done it in the past and it usually led to an entire faction being taken down after a few weeks. I know people put a lot of time and effort OOCly into creating their factions and I don't like using an all powerful tool to take them down just for our satisfaction.

 

Point 3 - That's like me saying the majority of criminals are just here to bait my faction members into chasing them. It's not true. A lot of things happen behind the scenes for a variety of reasons. Are there faction members that could use some work? Definitely. And we do our best to help them. But I genuinely think that you're looking for something that isn't there.

 

Point 4 - The LSPD does a lot of community events, has done a lot of community events and will continue to do community events. What happened with the racers was an IC mistake by faction members. I've in the past gone as far as meeting with leaders of registered ''official'' racing groups to sit down with them to urge them to actually go through the proper channels, apply for permits & then get us involved. Every time that's happened, we've been there to help. I've put in many hours personally to convince people of this both IC and OOC. The fact that they then don't go ahead and actually do that is completely on them and not something I'm going to take the blame for and neither should my faction. You can't expect me to go out of my way using my own time to create events for a group that seemingly is not interested in doing it themselves. I'm more then happy to sit down with anyone both IC and OOC to help them through this process, but it's not my job OOC to host events for factions that have nothing to do with mine. It doesn't make logical sense in character either.

 

Point 5 - I can't see plates on those vehicles but we actually strictly review & control faction member's assets out of character. I doubt those are owned by faction members and not people that visit Mission Row Station. We have a lot of OOC resources on our forums that are there to guide faction members when making decisions on assets etcetera, and if they still purchase unrealistic assets are told to get rid of them. I hope you know there's an apartment building across the street from Mission Row & those vehicles probably belong to the people living there.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Big_Smokes