Questions to politics roleplayers

[Skydeluire]

 

3 hours ago, Uncut said:

 

Well, if it's not a faction war, explain this.

 

 

 

 

Or people continuing ingame to shit on "liberals" because of populistic memes about "libtards" and "SJWs".

 

This is beyond dumb.

 

And I'm 50 percent sure that with me saying this I'll be the topic of some discord chatroom and how about they meme about me or my character.

Because really? They'd rather see this as an assault on them than a critic on their roleplay.

 

Also @Hugh-Gi-Oh, respectfully I understand you're trying to ease it more down than it is and try to be more diplomatic about it, and I see your effort, but it is NOT.

If you can't perceive this is a joke, I don't know what to tell you. I've never seen any direct "faction war" in all my time interacting oocly and icly with both democrats and republicans.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Skydeluire

[Ae]

1. No
2. Neither party actually aligns with my views.
3. Not really.

 

If I would change anything in the political system on the server, I would make it more Americanized. Not because of "what it should be in reality" or "what it should be because California", but just because the GTA universe itself is a caricature of a world and American politics(at least the part that gets highlighted and coverage) is as well, and that's the part that's interesting and people most often follow.

I would rather see people argue and push for laws/bills on the more far end, the parts that get people TALKING, than try to play this out as a real-life scenario, because it isn't, it's just a game. If I wanted to take part in real life coffee politics I would just follow real life politics.

 

 

[Uncut]

Guys, I feel like we're swaying also from the topic that a certain group of people monopolizes it? But hey, all good!

[eden ღ]

4 hours ago, Uncut said:

 

Well, if it's not a faction war, explain this.

 

 

 

 

Or people continuing ingame to shit on "liberals" because of populistic memes about "libtards" and "SJWs".

 

This is beyond dumb.

 

And I'm 50 percent sure that with me saying this I'll be the topic of some discord chatroom and how about they meme about me or my character.

Because really? They'd rather see this as an assault on them than a critic on their roleplay.

 

Also @Hugh-Gi-Oh, respectfully I understand you're trying to ease it more down than it is and try to be more diplomatic about it, and I see your effort, but it is NOT.

To answer your question - what you see there is light-hearted banter; we're all involved in it, I like to call @Scunt a filthy democrat, but he's a solid dude. Tamara is one of the easiest going people ever.

The only place you'll find actual hate is with specific characters caused by specific OOC feuds but they're very few and far between. The parties certainly don't hate each-other OOC. On the Republican side we actually hope for the betterment of SADEM, because it makes for more engaging roleplay when both of the parties are (somewhat) equal powerhouses.

The majority of us on both sides have been somewhat involved since political RP took off in 2020. That doesn't mean we hold all the opportunity though, senate and council elections are coming, we just had a mayor election - people throw their hat in.

I think it's disrespectful to pretend that what people have built is nothing more than an oligarchy gatekeeping outsiders, we actively want more interest in political RP - the reason it's been the same people for the most-part is because most people who get in to politics fade out, it's not extremely engaging roleplay, it's mostly a lot of work.

Additionally, nobody wants to be 1:1 with the typical stereotype of a Democrat or Republican, you can be party affiliated and yet hold your own viewpoints - being ultra co-ordinated would make for boring RP. As for IRL, I generally disagree with Republicans.

There's a difference between keeping things realistic, and keeping things 1:1 with IRL. All in all, political RP on the server is pretty realistic for the most-part now, and it's been a long road to get to that point. We're not Californians, and there's nothing wrong with that. 

Edited October 19, 2023 by eden ღ

[pogoyo]

2 minutes ago, Uncut said:

Guys, I feel like we're swaying also from the topic that a certain group of people monopolizes it? But hey, all good!

Only a certain group of people actually cares enough to even participate. It has been the same people since around 2020 and 2021. 

 

Before then, there weren't even elections, and it was still the same core group of people for years. The difference at that time was that this core group was more specialized in building functions and systems rather than the discourse-based political RP that elections brings in.

[Zani]

I think everyone should realize that the Senate has had open arms for the entirety of its existence. What I mean by that is, even after elections, we've brought people in the faction who are interested in roleplaying politics. I myself didn't know how to write bills, I didn't even know the process of how a bill becomes a law. I didn't know any motions or processes of government. I didn't fully understand the scope of a Legislature in the first place. And yet, I was brought on, and because I was driven to learn, I did. I asked questions, I got answers, and I got a lot of help from both Democrats and Republicans on an OOC level, because while we may have disagreements OOC (no need to mention IC here), we get along very well.

 

Anyone who says that politics is a clique could not be further from the truth. It is completely wrong to ever state that. The truth is that you don't find people interested in politics. When we opened up candidate elections during the last senate election, we didn't even have a handful of interested persons. We can't even find people to staff our parties. We have 10 seats in the Senate and we can't even fill them.

 

---

 

Also, anyone who wants the Senate to be exactly like California's should just advocate to abolish the in-character Senate and rely on California law in this server. It's as simple as that. If you don't want to do that, then you have to have an IC Senate and an IC senate can go either way.

 

Copy-pasting California is not creative roleplay. Because that means we'd have to adhere to what California does at all times. And if you have the notion that we can divert from California after we copy-paste its Legislature and laws, after 1 election, it'll likely revert to the way it is now, and we'd repeal all those laws and turn it red, so what's the point? This is a non issue and there is no basis for the argument.

[pateuvasiliu]

It makes a lot of sense to be Conservative in Los Santos, meaning supporting gun ownership, being prejudiced against gangs/certain groups.

 

Why? Because the city's crime rate is sky high and gangs/crime families are responsible for most of it. The more a minority commits crimes, the more extremists will show up. And this isn't a wild guess or some racist conspiracy theory, it's a phenomenon you can literally see happen/observe in Europe right now. Far Right parties are rising. 

 

What DOES NOT make sense is California Americans being a bunch of homophobes, transphobes and so on. California is one of the most progressive places in the world and the crime rate has nothing to do with the LGBTQ community. I legit think a lot of people are mixing OOC and IC here. If your character isn't a particularly religious person why would he be a homophobe or transphobe? In 2023 public declarations of stuff like that would get you fired pretty fast.

[pogoyo]

1 hour ago, pateuvasiliu said:

In 2023 public declarations of stuff like that would get you fired pretty fast.

The nature of politics boils down, in a video game or in real life, to sticking your finger in the wind. If you want to win any electoral competition, you say or portray what your constituents (GTAW players) will vote for en masse. Or you make prescient relationships IC with the people who have influence over large numbers of players (usually faction leaders who can influence their members to vote for a certain thing). That is very likely mixing IC and OOC, but that's still the nature of elections, especially when the constituent opinions are themselves a reflection of players' abridged OOC opinions. Polling drives that strategy IRL, intuition drives it in GTAW. As long as there are elections, it will probably mirror this.

Edited October 19, 2023 by pogoyo

[Kraethas]

Hey all. 

 

I'm the player of (among others) Nikos Karagiorgis, the current Democratic Chairman.

 

First of all let me start by saying that Diana Jones ( @Hugh-Gi-Oh) did not by any means threaten she'll eat my character's head if I did not post on this thread, because Diana is, after all, not a lizard. I am not a hostage and this is entirely my own writing.

 

That aside... I'll start with the topic's questions:

 

1. The easiest way to express this, is with an image from the Political Compass Test Results

 

 

As a person IRL, I'm very much on the Libertarian side of things in social matters, like Abortion, LGBTQ rights, Death Penalty, the situation between social classes, etc and quite on the Left side of things, economically. 

 

The character I portray is more authoritative than myself, being a pro-2nd Amendment Democrat (vying for BETTER checks so we can have access to BETTER guns). He has a number of principles that are less Liberal than the Party Line, but being "The Chairman", he will - of course - conform and enforce the party line. For example, he would always oppose the Death Penalty in public (as he had done), even if in private he may admit he'd rather see some people die, than waste resources on keeping them fed and clothed. BUT THAT'S AN IC MATTER, OK? no MG now!

 

2. The choice of this particular Party and political affiliation is partially due to the character's political compass (as shown above) and partially due to actual, IC reasons and opinions about who make up the "opposition". 

 

Nikos, for example, throughout his interaction with some members of the GOP, has a personal opinion on a few of them. And whether he believes he can collaborate with them played a major role in his political affiliations. Add to that the fact that he was very much enjoying a quiet life until @Mecovy approached him for the "Campaign against Hank", his political affiliation decision was 50% made by him and 50% made FOR him. And he's sticking with it.

 

In short: It was an IC decision.

 

3. Nah, IC does not affect me IRL. Primarily, because I'm not playing something that is in direct opposition to where I stand, IRL. Yes, I do find the opportunity to express a few opinions that are more centrist than my own, and I find that ... Curiously liberating, but other than that? Nah, I don't feel it has affected me, or has changed where I stand.

 

 

Now... As to the rest of this thread's discussion...

 

Yes the situation in the server is rather one sided at the moment. 

Yes, the Democratic Party seem to be on the "losing" side. Internally, we do not see it as "losing", merely... We need more exposure for people to see WHAT we do, and HOW we do it. Which is something we're working on.

 

But, as @NexusExodus said, and I'll quote here manually because I'm on my phone and CBA to use the quote function: "One last thing is the OOC factor. Some people vote on what they may think is the better pick on an OOC level. And that has a lot to do with the image your character presents, how you roleplay, and the amount of effort you can put in your campaign."

 

This statement is 100% true. The biggest pain point on the Democrats' side, is exposure. It's people not KNOWING who we are, and what we do, beyond 1-2 key individuals. It's what we're focusing to correct, and it's our current uphill battle, because exposure and publicity is what attracts roleplayers to get involved. People gravitate and get involved to what they can see.

 

But to get exposure and publicity, you need committed roleplayers that both seek to represent the Party Values (rather than their own agenda / that of their friends') AND are active enough. And to attract these roleplayers, you need exposure and publicity, and to get exposure and publicity you need committed [...] - You get the idea of how this goes.

 

Am I blind? Do I think there is no OOC bias?

 

No. I'm not blind. There is a tremendous amount of OOC bias against the Democratic party and it is significantly influenced by the RL opinions players bring into the game. However, Hugh is 1000% right when he says that this bias does not exist on a FACTION LEVEL between the four political groups of the server: GOP / SADEM / SAGOV / LSGOV. 

 

If anyone in these groups feels there is some sort of enmity, or bias, from SADEM's side, I'd gladly invite them to a sit down to clear the OOC air. There may be personal opinions - these always exist - but as far as the organizing branch of these groups goes (meaning: Leadership), I would like to think that we're on a very good level, OOC. The four of us, together with LFM, always try to talk things through and maintain a civil relation among us, because that's the only way to keep generating RP that should be and will be controversial, for people to talk about. Controversial RP requires the most delicate OOC management to remain interesting, attractive, engaging, without spilling in OOC drama.

 

As for the rest of the server? Well... The best way to change a situation, is to get involved. We (the Democrats) have a ton of work ahead of us. Sometimes it's overwhelming. Sometimes things get lost in the volume. Thankfully, we've started getting our shit together because we started to share the load and we're all confident that better things are in the future. To give just a minor spoiler: We're looking to focus on -districts- rather than the whole map, so that we can treat each part of the map as a mini-project. Focus here, build up, improve, move on to the next. Then the existing structure will start to perpetuate itself to build up more.

 

Thanks for the topic, thanks for the opportunity to blab so much. #NotSorry for the wall of text.

[DLimit]

3 hours ago, pateuvasiliu said:

It makes a lot of sense to be Conservative in Los Santos, meaning supporting gun ownership, being prejudiced against gangs/certain groups.

 

Why? Because the city's crime rate is sky high and gangs/crime families are responsible for most of it. The more a minority commits crimes, the more extremists will show up. And this isn't a wild guess or some racist conspiracy theory, it's a phenomenon you can literally see happen/observe in Europe right now. Far Right parties are rising. 

 

What DOES NOT make sense is California Americans being a bunch of homophobes, transphobes and so on. California is one of the most progressive places in the world and the crime rate has nothing to do with the LGBTQ community. I legit think a lot of people are mixing OOC and IC here. If your character isn't a particularly religious person why would he be a homophobe or transphobe? In 2023 public declarations of stuff like that would get you fired pretty fast.

Many modern-day Republicans are tossing around that the LGTBQIA+ community promotes pedophilia and rape. From drag-show children readings, to "grooming" within schools through books and "sex-ed" related topics, to cases of sexual harassment within bathrooms. Not agreeing with this, but it's a topic brought up by Republicans throughout the U.S... Only reason why California is more "progressive" isn't because of the Republican stance on matters, but because the Democrats are often the majority in most cases within the state.

Clearly, GTAW Republicans cannot make claims about child grooming, rape, and pedophilia, so they have to find other outlets.