Illegal RP Application for CCW/PF holders

[Westen]

I think this rule was implemented back in middle/late 2019 if I remember correctly. One of the reasons why this was implemented; and I may be wrong, so please correct me if I am, was individuals starting up street gangs and easily obtaining PFs and using these PFs to start gangwars. This came with a host of other issues such as them logging to avoid to keep the guns, or namechanging after committing the crime / obtaining the PF so that the serial would be invalid, etc etc.

 

Honestly, I like the suggestion for it to be a per-basis approval. If someone wants to be an idiot and use a PF gun in a crime, then, golly gosh, feel free to go get caught. What shouldn't happen however, is people using PFs solely as a basis for crime, which is what was stomped out in the first place.

[Keane]

13) Abusing a Purchase Firearm License (PF License)

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Admins stay out of the way of the distribution of legal firearms or ammunition unless one of the following happens:

• a player makes a character just to sell PF weapons, but does nothing else on that character;
• a member of an illegal organization uses PF weapons to supply their group rather than making IC contacts for illegal weapons;
• the sale of PF weapons (or weapons in general) has OOC involvement, rather than being a strictly IC process.

 

It seems a lot of you have misunderstood the rules that are in place about PF weapons. The main idea is to prevent players from effectively creating burner characters for illegal activity. We also want to make sure that illegal weapons are being circulated. If we went back to allowing literally everyone to have PF licenses, then we'll go back to the days when gangs could pop up and start shootings from day one because half the faction has PF licenses. Unfortunately a fully IC system won't work on a server where we're trying to uphold a certain standard of RP.

On occasion, Management add additional OOC restrictions to react to what happens on the server. An example of that is specifically preventing gang members from getting PF weapons. A lot of them were powergaming by getting a PF license while roleplaying under 18, and purchasing handguns while under 21. There was also a lot of burner characters and OOC dealing. Issues like these are far less common in other types of illegal factions, hence why they're not restricted. 

[Keta]

1 hour ago, Keane said:

 

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3 hours ago, Westen said:

 

 

I was referring to this OOC agreement that players who apply for the PF are subject to. Right now, it's a super broad statement that encompasses all illegal RP, which as I was saying forces players to be one or the other, illegal or legal, with no in between. If what you're saying Keane is that this statement above is wrong, then it definitely needs to be changed to refer the rule 13).

[shiroq]

Absolutely not, the server is plagued by PF warriors as is, getting an illegal gun is easier than making a PF application. All you need is to be social and make friends with correct people, everyone forgets that socialising will get you above and beyond. But of course if you drive up to a shady looking guy and go "hey guys i heard you sell guns here" you will get laughed at and will never be taken seriously.

[Bandolero]

The point that's trying to be made is not make it easier for people to get PF licenses, if anything make it A LOT harder for people to apply for it. I'm all for it but if you're telling me that anyone with a PF license cannot engage in ANY form of illegal RP is a joke, not saying people should go around murdering people with PF guns cuz that's just stupid and unrealistic, a rule can be implemented to say that people can't go around and do mad shit like that. But there shouldn't be a massive divide between the two. Where you're forced to be a legal RPer when you have a PF license. 

 

Are illegal guns really that much in circulation? When the people who control the market for illegal weapons are charging people EXTORTIONATE prices for weapons. So why should a person who just got 40 hours done and has 200k to his name then pay 150k for a M4. Or should he apply for a PF license, get a gun for 10k?

 

 

[springie]

I think a major problem in these servers and types of role play games is that how guns are so seemingly rare to come across. I understand that this is a video game, and that how thinks work in these video games need to support the in-game economy; but the fact that no crime can be committed with a PF license is absurd. From crimes that are committed at a spur from the heat of the moment, to otherwise legal characters who possess a licensed firearm for the same reason as anyone else taking a buckle in their character development and being forced into crime - what is the actual reasoning behind not allowing this? Like most games, whether or not we want to believe it - or admit to it, there is an OOC hierarchy when it comes to selling weaponry and other mean other means of dealing.

 

Shotguns and handguns are in an abundance in the inner-cities of the United States, and even more so in the deprived rural areas of the state - and it seems absurd to me that the majority of the illegal weaponry would need to come from criminal organizations themselves. Most guns traced to crimes in Chicago were linked to multiple gun stores around the state of Illinois. 

 

https://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/ten-chicago-area-stores-sold-3389-guns-tied-to-chicago-crimes/ 

 

https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/city/depts/mayor/Press Room/Press Releases/2017/October/GTR2017.pdf

 

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[Syrike]

7 minutes ago, Bandolero said:

The point that's trying to be made is not make it easier for people to get PF licenses, if anything make it A LOT harder for people to apply for it. I'm all for it but if you're telling me that anyone with a PF license cannot engage in ANY form of illegal RP is a joke, not saying people should go around murdering people with PF guns cuz that's just stupid and unrealistic, a rule can be implemented to say that people can't go around and do mad shit like that. But there shouldn't be a massive divide between the two. Where you're forced to be a legal RPer when you have a PF license. 

 

Are illegal guns really that much in circulation? When the people who control the market for illegal weapons are charging people EXTORTIONATE prices for weapons. So why should a person who just got 40 hours done and has 200k to his name then pay 150k for a M4. Or should he apply for a PF license, get a gun for 10k?

 

 

There are limits that were put in place because of your top statement, this thread is saying those limits should now be changed. (Though through applications sent to admins) I will say this ever since the conditions were changed Illegal RP has improved, people are no longer going on robbing sprees with their legal firearms, businesses can open without being harassed by a person with a legal firearm.

 

Now the second part here you mention an M4 for 150k, how does an assault rifle correlate in any way to a 10k pistol? The answer is it doesn't.

 

All in all I don't think it needs to be changed, yes it does suck that your illegal character who skirts the edges cannot get a legal weapon but it does prevent a lot of abuse from people who would use the same reasoning as those players who intended to do it right to get their hands on an 'easy' weapons source. 

[SugarDavis]

9 hours ago, mj2002 said:

Why should this scrutiny be OOC when it could be IC?

 

Because sometimes some players are only here to get into gunfights. Players with that kind of attitude should be denied on an OOC basis because while their character might meet all the IC requirements, the person controlling that character isn't mature enough to handle the responsibility which could deteriorate others experience playing on the server. 

[Kipps]

Lots of gun ownership within organized crime groups and street gangs is made possible by straw purchasing from places like gun shows and gun shops in states with lax regulations. 

So I don't see any problem with license holders obtaining guns for criminal purposes (including selling/passing them on illegally), as long as it's roleplayed believably and the number of guns changing hands isn't excessive.

It's way more realistic than some Italian mobster saying he bought 200 AKs from '[Italian] a contact in Russia-..' and then practically wholesaling them to LS street gangs.

 

I also recognise that the attitudes of some CCW permit holders are bad, but they're honestly not too different from a lot of people who carry guns in real life. I've seen plenty of social media footage of potatoes in Kevlar vests, armed with tacticool rifles and ready to die fighting Antifa but more likely to die fighting Type 2 diabetes. 

Edited June 12, 2020 by Kipps

[shiroq]

4 minutes ago, TheBaldMan said:

Not entirely right, everyone will scam you if you don't have a reason more then "I need a weapon".

I have been rping various criminal characters for over a year on gtaw and I have not been scammed once.