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Brett

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  1. Brett

    This suggestion isn't about turning all PK's into CK's. Nor vice-versa that is a different conversation. The only thing we're doing, is making them be defined. But let me smash through some of your points here; A death requires a victim. A victim in our world has to be a legitimate player. And a legitimate player to be truly dead, must be-....truly dead. If I got fingerprints from a scene and it comes back to MY character who was murdered as an example, there's no way I can justify anything else. My unique fingerprints are on a murder scene, showing I was killed. Yet I'm walking around days later like I'm fine? This makes zero sense, and I cannot say this enough. This doesn't create a bigger grey area, it resolves the grey area. It'll make PK's mean that someone didn't actually fully die when you thought, because people aren't rply checking pulses after they shoot someone to ensure they are fully dead, they're going to be running away soon after the act to avoid capture and that leaves enough time for stuff to happen to continue and RP from. This grey area you're saying will be created, honestly has no real basis in reality nor can I possibly see how this would make the system worse. You would have to explain that more for me to take it more seriously. Under this sytem, they wouldn't be "Murdered." Murdered implies you actually have been killed, which by definition with this you wouldn't have been. So with that in mind, you being a victim of a crime where someone attempted to murder you could be used in the IC. If you legit forget clothing or some other detail of the scene, then you RP that. None of this "My character would RPly remember x." It's either you remember, or you don't. And yes, just like a victim of any crime, they can be questioned for details of said crime in like the hospital or in a follow up. This would make things more simple. It's hard to do follow ups or hospital questionings if we're supposed to act like the PK'd person is dead. That means we have absolutely no victim to question, and they person killed can't act like "Oh, that was my friend. I saw the whole incident." The only person this current system benefits, is the person doing the PK's. Everyone else suffers, because they have to RP an entirely separate reality with hoops and challenges that just make no sense, just to make whoever did the PK happy they could do a PK. It's stupid.
  2. Brett

    @Jidosko - No IRL gang member is around other gang members even most of the time. They have lives too lol. And idk why you're bringing up legit circumstances of what can happen to someone who has a CK app or something on them. If someone manages to get the CK drop on you, when you're unprepared for something you did, that's consequences and you gotta live with them. You're not getting CK'd out here for stealing a car, or doing petty crime, or pretty much most things. Now I can't speak for the CK app criteria personally, but I imagine that it's pretty strict and thoroughly reviewed if a forced ck is to be carried out and that's fair. If you have an issue with that stuff, that is a different discussion for a different topic. My whole point here is to say, that defining the PK and CK as I have will give us a barebones standard of what OOCly these really translate too. Allowing people to base their RP and actions off of it without unnecessary confusion. Once that is defined, people can go argue about PK's and CK frequency and all that in another thread, another day. But at least a barebone standard of what they even mean, is defined.
  3. Brett

    You're right, they would be dead (possibly). Or maybe the mob may go and "teach him a lesson," in another way that doesn't kill to show what they've done. Maybe that could be something for a CK application from the mobster if that happens. And I personally don't see any issue with a rise of CK's, as long as they're done properly. I don't agree that this is going to cause a problem in gameplay. If you're okay with simply just shooting people everytime you get robbed, or everytime you get "wronged," that's a personal issue and you should suffer the consequences. Hiding behind the "Well too much realism ruins the game," argument to justify poor RP is something I personally hate. I guarantee you more RP would be created, if everyone would stop the "Shoot first," attitude they have dealing with problems and try to resolve their issues in other manners like legit gangsters/mobsters do. All shooting someone does even in a PK when all it's being used for is PK's, is an excuse to just poorly RP events which could have far more depth. Because if you really want to truly murder someone, you would want a CK and people do actually work on requesting those, etc to make those happen so I just don't agree with your argument here. And why do you assume everyone who has an attempt on their life is going to try and take yours? Some people who can be PK'd are cops, FD, legal roleplayers, etc and most will try and get you through legal ways such as reporting the crime to the police and getting you arrested and just acting as a victim. And even a lot of the people you're going to kill from a PK (If they're half a decent roleplayer), should find other ways to get revenge unless of course you truly kicked a hornets nest like killing a member of a gang or something and thus you get retaliation. My point is, this isn't going to be some vicious cycle and it's a complete myth that it will be. And if it worries you so much that people who get PK'd may try to get revenge on you, maybe that will stop people from trying to PK so many people to begin with so that doesn't happen? Either way, consequences are consequences. And trying to avoid them all in the name of "Too much realism, it's a game." Is just poor, and absolutely lazy in terms of roleplay development.
  4. Brett

    If someone is going to RP being shot in the head severely times, then honestly that should most likely be a previously authorized CK app if you're going to go into that level of detail. If you're just talking about shooting someone point and click in a standard shootout, then stuff gets rather ambiguous as people argue all the time about "Well I shot you here, and here, x." People are going to take advantage of this, same as people will take advantage without it. The sad reality is not everyone is going to take RP as seriously as we would like. I'm pretty sure not everyone treats traffic accidents as big deals, not everyone rp'd fear as accurately as they should, not everyone rp's small things that they probably should, it's never going to be a great standard. In the ideal RP world, if someone is shot in the head they should just CK themselves out of good sport, but most won't and whether this gets in or not isn't going to change that reality as that's a completely different discussion. People constantly claim random stuff about injuries, and walk away like it's nothing pretty much 24/7. Even if you weren't PK'd but were shot in the leg, shoulders, etc. Most people are just going to say "Eh, just a scratch bruh. I'll walk it off. Give BLS and I'll be gucci." Is this going to make shots fired situations or whatever fair, no. That's not the point. The point is simply to define officially from an OOC standpoint what PK and CK means in an RP. Not a discussion about if people should RP a PK this way, or that way. Because frankly, that's a different discussion.
  5. Brett

    What the above said. Here is what's weird, and I'll try to TLDR. What's weird is you have two people one the victim who is PK'd and one the actual person who PK'd the victim walking away from a scene with two dramatically different stories that will be used in the IC. The person who got PK'd will basically have an entire part of his RP past the PK gone (As he would not have seen the effects, or lived it.) And the person who did the PK, will act as if he truly killed someone and suffer all punishments from it. This is contradictory. Because if PD were to say put a casefile up, they would have to name the victim. So if Jack Doe is the victim of a PK, Jack Doe's name appears in the casefile, and Jack Doe's actual information pertinent to a case will also appear in said casefile with affiliates gang or not, any miscellaneous information like a vehicle if it was stolen from them, etc. So all that RP is ongoing and currently being submitted into official character stories, and IG records, yet for the actual Jack Doe none of this is happening or has happened to them. That's weird, and makes 0 sense. How "exactly," am I supposed to RP a scene where let's say I get my car stolen and due to mistakes on my part I get PK'd, and my car gets officially stolen. To the thief who shot me and stole my car, that is registered in my name, to my person, he has just murdered me for my vehicle and has taken it. Am I to now RP that this so-called "robbery," never happened and my car is just a figment of my imagination that has never existed because if I try to follow up with a police report it could be PG/MG? This is what's not clear, and this "nameless dead person," stuff isn't solving anything. It's just adding to mountains of confusion which could be avoided by the simple defining of a CK being a full murder, PK being attempted murder, and people can ICly rp a PK as they thought they killed someone and maybe later found out that's not true or something. This has nothing to do with "ruining characters." Everything to do with the fact that we're putting tons of IC and OOC work from a Court/PD and even to an extent Illegal RPers who have to go through those systems on facts and information which only one side of the narrative acknowledges while the other is blissfully going about their day acting like the events we're describing is 100% myth. How exactly am I to have for example a murder trial on the server for the murder of my Jack Doe character and the theft of the vehicle, if Jack Doe still rply lives because it was a PK not a CK, and is actively going about his life trying to not entangle himself with a murder trial about HIS death from an OOC perspective because............I honestly can't even say it fully, because this is what I mean by it's so ridiculous as it stands that you have to do mental gymnastics to make the current system make sense. Just, I think you get what I'm trying to say here. And others have pointed to similar problems that leaves for an absolute game-breaking in my opinion immersion break, that cannot be resolved by a simple "Well leave it how it is, because it just works." No, it doesn't. And that's fine. One party if they decide to ICly retaliate under proper conditions, can do so. And that still fits under the RP. The point being made earlier how I understand it, is if for example a party PK's someone that they could go on believing they killed someone only later to be proven to be wrong if the victim shows back up or whatever days later. It's all an IC problem, and people can deal with that transition ICly.
  6. Brett

    Just want to point this out, and will post this in the OP section. This isn't about making CK's or PK's more or less rare or frequent, nor do we need to offtrack the discussion on that point as that can come in it's own thread later. The only thing this suggestion is about, and conversation should be on, is the simple matter of defining what RP a true CK or PK is in terms of the server, because without that being clarified we can't even begin to have further conversations on if one should be more rare or not. Not taking a side in that debate, just trying to say that this suggestion isn't about that and I want to keep it on topic. Thank you all who have been doing so, and continue.
  7. Brett

    This would perfectly fit in with my suggestion here. If PK's were oocly defined as the Attempted Murder standard from the OOC point of view, then ICly it can be rped as whatever. An example is like you said, someone does a driveby or something and they think they killed the player, but in reality they got rushed to the hospital alter or something. It can be rped as they wish, but from a story-standpoint on the OOC level for the PD/Player/Courts/Etc it has a consistent story. A simple defining of this as an OOC standard, would completely allow for the flexibility of how people deal with it from an IC point of view, and would help resolve so much unresolved questions in the IC so we no longer have this "Two different realities," and messy IG situations like the one you described above.
  8. Added one of the current suggestions since it relates to future development of the faction in regards to Capital Crimes. Would love to see opinions on there too;
  9. Alright, so let me explain a gripe I've been having to open this conversation. It really concerns how ambiguous the PK's and CK's are on the server, and how there is no hardcore definitions for them which makes them really messy and just outright weird. Here is the problem, and I'll make a scene. Imagine you're a criminal, and you're engaging in a store robbery on the server. And during that robbery, you end up PKing someone and escape and maybe later get caught by police. As it stands right now, you would be charged with Murder 2nd or 1st Degree depending on how charging will go in your individual case, with your victim officially being named the individual who you would've PK'd. Here is where the issues are in this. One, the PK'd victim isn't actually murdered and still lives and will be walking around, roleplaying, and still living out their life. Now how people resolve the issue of continuity in this, we have two standards currently being upheld which are contradictory. PD, Courts, and the person who shot would be RPing from this point that someone was actually killed and would name the victim and all of their RP would be structured on this premise and inducted into their character stories. But for the person who was actually PK'd, they would act like this never happened to them. That they were never involved in a store robbery and were killed (Because how could they, if they're living still.) And may OOCly make up some BS like "Oh I heard someone around the corner got shot in a robbery, etc." Just to keep on with their normal roleplay. This is a legitimate problem, because it makes absolutely no sense. Because you have two realities, one where someone is roleplaying that someone was legitimately murdered and put in the ground, them being charged with such an offense of murder, and everyone on one side of the aisle claiming that someone was murdered. And the other side claiming they have nothing to do with the incident and all (Since they were the victims.) And thus are absolutely disconnected, and it's basically de-facto removed from their character history unless they personally choose to make it a CK on themselves to fix the contradiction which few will do. I want to fix this problem, because it absolutely makes zero sense to continue. Here is what I propose: Make an official topic detailing PK's and CK's, defining PK's as Attempted Murders and not Full Murders. Allowing victims to continue roleplaying if they've ever been shot, and deal with IC repercussions to encourage further RP off incidents that occur. In the official thread, define CK's as Full Murders. As the victim will legitimately be removed from the RP, and cannot come back. It's that simple. You don't have to change CK's or PK rules or enforce one standard over the other. Just make it crystal clear that PK's are not full murders rather attempted murders, and CK's are full murders. This would solve a hell of a lot of immersion issues, and stop this alternate reality game where two sides go away from an incident with two different mindsets of what happened and still influencing the RP with stories that make zero sense. It's just absolutely breaks immersion from an IC and OOC perspective to see someone you killed and got charged with or not walking down the street all calm and such like he was never in a shootout or whatever, to see entire casefiles and such made on someone who is still fine, to have people getting like 20 murder charges just calmly living their life in Los Santos because we're taking PK's as Murders. It makes no sense, and it's absolutely breaking reality in so many weird ways and I believe it needs to stop. I shall allow discussion from this point on. Note: This thread isn't about PK's or CK's frequency, or which should be more rare or not. This thread is only talking about defining the OOC standard for how they are to be roleplayed as and that is all. Please don't derail the conversation into which you prefer, want to happen more, etc as that is an entirely separate topic. Thank you.
  10. Honestly? I'm pretty happy with how the media is covering things, and want that to continue. I do believe however in the future interviews could be given by the Public Defender & District Attorney Offices, etc in order to provide that IC tension for high-profile cases and all. Other then that, I think it's pretty good.
  11. SHAFT Act. Coordinating multiple schedules with the authors, and working with FM at the time took months. Long story... That case was a Civil Case, and thus the only thing we have done from our end is handle the financial restitution. Everything associated with a CK was fully on the player, with no connection to the courts. But to answer your question about the court fine, it would just result in the player having to pay as much as they can and then even if that leaves them with $0 if they cannot pay the full fee, and that's all. We've had to do that at times, as we're not going to place people in jail for being too poor to pay fines ordered by the court if we cleaned them out. I've been asked about Mental Health laws a bit, and I'll say this. As far as anything in regards to this area, the only thing about Mental Health we have is in relation to the SHAFT Act with gun laws which allows for confiscation and revocation of firearms and licenses in necessary circumstances. The general procedure for Mental Health is as it stands, is to just transfer people to the FD who attempt to commit suicide for a possible commit to a suicide watch by the hospital (Which would be NPC'd by the player.) However, in the future I do plan on attempting some more stuff with Mental Health and Hospital stuff in general so there may be a more official stance on this in the future, although right now I can't really commit on what that was. Just to smash this one. I appreciate your comment, and I will simply say that it's possible more IC laws and such will expand on this area in due time. However I cannot guarantee when this will happen.
  12. Hello everyone, I am Brett, you can read a little about me here. I am the leader of the courts/doj faction and I am making this thread to sorta make a lot more public plans in the background of law for the entire server, that I've talked about in various discords, forum pms, or individual factions that not everyone gets to immediately hear about or really know until it's done and I wish to open up that dialogue a bit more. If you can take a look here, I'm the one responsible for about 90% of the stuff here and am the main writer for the State Laws on the server. Of course I also run the courts which is expanding to include three tiers (Superior, Appellate, and Supreme), and regularly liaison with various players/factions on various legal affairs in relation to jailing or general legal stuff that may not be properly understood to lay the foundations of how things will be done in that sector of the server. Simply put, I'm basically the one you talk to if you want to know anything law related about the server, period. All that to say, I'm really here to just open up a lot of discussion in regards to laws present and future on the server, any plans regarding the justice/judicial system which will also include a lot of information going into the Los Santos Sheriff's Department in relation to Parole, Probation, that kinda thing. Stuff relating to the District Attorney System which I'm sure a lot of illegal roleplayers have been getting familiar with, and just general comments in relation to all that's been happening in this sector. So ask away, or just leave a thank you for all the work done so far. I'm here to answer any questions and/or concerns, take suggestions, the works. All I ask is for respectful attitudes, and healthy discussion. Thank you, and I await the responses. Current Ongoing Suggestions for Development:
  13. Brett

    New DA Monthly Report: A
  14. I'll just bang these out, so bare with me. Bank Faction - If people would care enough to use it, actually having some banks with actual interests and contracts and all that actually mattered and could be enforced would be interesting. Someone with good accounting and management skills would have to run this, but could be extremely profitable if interest was there. San Andreas National Guard (Specifically Army, Small Air National) - Done this before, and it was probably the best faction I've ever ran. Wish I still had all the screenshots with it, but it was fantastic. Mainly keep it to the Army National Guard, keep them on the base for public disasters which won't ever really happen which is fine, and just use it as a huge roleplay faction. Every saturday there's a training of something for like 2 hours or so, it's part-time, and all you do is roleplay for 2 good hours doing stuff. Maybe it's cooking food for the unit as a 92G Culinary Specialist, repairing vehicles as a 91 series mechanic, or doing some basic infantry maneuvers. It's a very interesting style of roleplay, and also serves as an IC roleplay school as all it does is constantly roleplay menial stuff and people from all backgrounds of the RP get to engage with each other. Quite fun, but you need to have someone who knows about the US Army and it's structure. But would absolutely 100% endorse again. Miss my old Colonel Char.... Los Santos Crime Syndicate - I know Illegal RP is not at the best state atm, so I'll give some love. But I would like to see a really organized criminal underworld on the server, comprising of multiple criminal organizations to ensure it works well and fine. Would be really nice to see that level of organization on the illegal level, and the numerous IC problems it could cause. It's like being the unofficial mayor of Los Santos criminal underworld. Triad/Cartel Faction - Standard stuff. Just a good one, with variety. Preferably multiple. Hospital Faction - I actually initially recommended FD transform into this, but I still would like to see an independent hospital faction on the server. There's a lot of medical roleplay that could be expanded, and I know a lot have interest in this sector even more so then the standard fire-based ems. So I would support seeing this kind of faction actually get established. Los Santos Movie Faction - WIth GTA V, I'm surprised we haven't gotten this already. GTA V is the perfect platform to find ways to shoot movie scenes for IG and release them like full feature films. Imagine having legitimate sets and variety in actors, etc in a really realistic sort of way to produce media content. This is done in spades with like short IC films or other media, but it could really become something truly unique if someone had the dedication to really do this. I could honestly see it taking off with some real effort. Workers Union Factions - This one may be more out there, but it's for the business roleplayers. I would love to see more roleplay around unions in regards to player-run businesses across the city, to the police and fire unions, etc. Sorta like a Jimmy Hoffa of the IG world. I know this also can tie into political roleplay as it can go a lot of ways, but I truly would like to see some real organized unions that matter. Could lead to a lot of interesting events. Even for organized crime especially. Community College Faction - Never been a HUGE fan of the education like factions, but I do have a fondness to at least trial a community college. It's not as juvenile as a High School, nor as advanced as a four year university. And it's more versatile to the kinds of courses and all it can offer in a realistically shorter amount of time. For example my faction could volunteer to offer law courses at the university icly for students who want to RP pre-law and all, defense courses could be held, medical courses could be held, etc. Pretty much everyone can add something to the community college and make it into some IC certificate that could be used for certain factions, or simply just for the RP excuse of having actually attended a university style roleplay environment IG rather then always having to NPC it. And since community college is open to all, it's not like have to focus on every subject equally like "Math, Reading, Science, etc" for people not there for those types of degrees which in this game nobody would most likely care about anyway. Those are just some quick faction ideas off the top of my head, but some I would like to see.
  15. The DoJ/Court side is very established, but this is not something we're in charge of handling. Everything in regards to this is going to be on the government and that's Mr. @AVRO DANKASTER realm. I agree that I would like to have a more ICly engaged government in the future as I need them to do some things in regards to some of the new laws we are going to require, but timing on when that will be coming is not on me. I hope it can come a conclusion and such so some good RP can be provided, but for now you will have to take this up with the man currently in charge who I already tagged. @liq
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