Why is LCN RP so stigmatized?

[NickyW]

Just now, Morrigan said:

I didn't, if you took time to read - it was a rebuttle about FAIM's influence and operations in California; 

 

 

 

“This isn’t NorCal”

 

you respond with

 

”uh actually paleto and grape seed are supposed to be these two cities”

 

how is that *not* implying that those areas are NorCal? If that’s not what you’re saying then what the hell was your point?

 

why are you playing dumb lol just admit you were wrong and move on

[marbella mondays]

Just now, NickyW said:

“This isn’t NorCal”

 

you respond with

 

”uh actually paleto and grape seed are supposed to be these two cities”

 

how is that *not* implying that those areas are NorCal? If that’s not what you’re saying then what the hell was your point?

 

why are you playing dumb lol just admit you were wrong and move on

I really hate attention seekers like you, so let me clear this up:

 

 

This was a convo about FAIM and LCN, because someone compared LCN to FAIM - I said, they weren't the same, because LCN barely exists in Califas, whilst FAIM dominates NorCal, and has reach in Central and some SoCal Counties.

 

Then the guy responded to me saying NorCal isn't LA.

 

Therefore I responded saying PB and Grape resemble Bakers and Fresno, which are Centro and So. based towns.

 

Then you come in trynna make yourself look like the best thing since God created the planet.

 

Overall, if you're going to shit talk and be a dick, at least be a dick with facts - don't act like a asshole and get corrected.

[subway244]

3 hours ago, el capo said:

Misunderstood my point entirely I'll explain, how often do you see crip sets, or skinhead gangs evolve into an OCG on this server? They rarely do because in reality gangs don't evolve into some sort of OCG they remain gangs because that would be the realistic course, 8 trey gangster crips started in 1975 it's still a gang to this day. The LCN crew developing into a formal family started in LSRP there isn't even a real account of that happening in reality, it started on RP servers where people didn't have enough roleplayers to roleplay a family from the get-go so they started with a crew. What most of the people on this topic are saying is that in LA, it should never develop into anything, every criminal entity on this server serves some purpose, an LCN group would have a specific purpose in LS one which does not need to evolve into something bigger.

How is it fair that LCN is restricted and limited to "only ever being a crew" when virtually nobody else has to follow that restriction? Like someone said earlier, it's essentially discrimination against an entire RP community by two kinds of people - either butthurt individuals who've never put in the effort to grow their own CF yet act jealous when ones actually come into being and dominate the world of organized crime, or people who's only knowledge of the LCN community comes from bad apple interactions with people who shouldn't represent the entire genre.

 

Throughout this entire thread, I've found no logical reason for why LCN should be limited, other than the fact people realize that, when done right, LCN dominates crim politics ICly - which shouldn't matter, since IC is IC.

 

The whole argument about "it's Los Angeles" is silly too, because it's NOT Los Angeles. It's Los Santos, and for years the fact that we RP in a fictional location grants us the right to pursue fictional concepts like LCN, which is enjoyable to a big demographic.

 

If people's hatred toward LCN legitimately is jealousy, try pursuing an OCG of your own. It's not like Italian-American characters get spawned in as made guys, or with hundreds of connections. Every crime family had to build that shit from the ground up through months, if not years of grueling roleplay. To say LCN is anything but one of the highest standards of criminal roleplay is a lie. The best illegal RP I've witnessed comes from LCN RPers, and I say that as someone who's had characters in Mexican and Russian OCGs.

 

We hold ourselves to a higher standard and reap the IC benefits of not being idiots. We shouldn't be punished for that.

[Gallagher]

13 minutes ago, subway244 said:

We hold ourselves to a higher standard and reap the IC benefits of not being idiots. We shouldn't be punished for that.

 

this kind of statement is the reason why most of the playerbase mock LCN roleplayers

[el capo]

26 minutes ago, subway244 said:

How is it fair that LCN is restricted and limited to "only ever being a crew" when virtually nobody else has to follow that restriction? Like someone said earlier, it's essentially discrimination against an entire RP community by two kinds of people - either butthurt individuals who've never put in the effort to grow their own CF yet act jealous when ones actually come into being and dominate the world of organized crime, or people who's only knowledge of the LCN community comes from bad apple interactions with people who shouldn't represent the entire genre.

 

Throughout this entire thread, I've found no logical reason for why LCN should be limited, other than the fact people realize that, when done right, LCN dominates crim politics ICly - which shouldn't matter, since IC is IC.

 

The whole argument about "it's Los Angeles" is silly too, because it's NOT Los Angeles. It's Los Santos, and for years the fact that we RP in a fictional location grants us the right to pursue fictional concepts like LCN, which is enjoyable to a big demographic.

 

If people's hatred toward LCN legitimately is jealousy, try pursuing an OCG of your own. It's not like Italian-American characters get spawned in as made guys, or with hundreds of connections. Every crime family had to build that shit from the ground up through months, if not years of grueling roleplay. To say LCN is anything but one of the highest standards of criminal roleplay is a lie. The best illegal RP I've witnessed comes from LCN RPers, and I say that as someone who's had characters in Mexican and Russian OCGs.

 

We hold ourselves to a higher standard and reap the IC benefits of not being idiots. We shouldn't be punished for that.

Everybody else follows that restriction, do you see white power gangs just deciding to become their own prison STGs after some time, or Sureno factions just deciding to make La EME 2.0 in prison because they "developed enough", do you see black gangs turning into The Lucas Crime Family because they've been 'building connections' for months? The only genre of RP that happens in frequently is LCN, as I've stated before they use the crew as an excuse to develop into a crime family, crime families do not work in this environment, it was quite evident during the Conti-MCF era considering the number of dumb wars. A gang remains a gang because that's what it should represent, LCN represents what other people like Chuckles have already stated here, that's the only thing it should represent to fit on the server.

 

Also, being as petty as I am you should be the last person to talk about Jealously, wtf would I be jealous of? I've had only good experiences rping with the original MCF, as a crew and after the transition, and after all of that I would still tell you that it doesn't fit and never will.

Edited May 23, 2023 by el capo

[subway244]

37 minutes ago, el capo said:

Everybody else follows that restriction, do you see white power gangs just deciding to become their own prison STGs after some time, or Sureno factions just deciding to make La EME 2.0 in prison because they "developed enough", do you see black gangs turning into The Lucas Crime Family because they've been 'building connections' for months?

None of what you listed is LCN, or even comparable to how LCN is roleplayed. That's not to discredit those genres, but there are differences.

 

And whether or not any of those concepts evolve themselves into OCG factions or not isn't my business, but they should have a right to do so if it develops ICly. However, I think the reason most of them don't evolve into OCGs is because the people RPing the concepts simply don't want to. Me personally, as well as the majority of LCN RPers have the goal of making a crime family in mind, even if we start out as a crew. That's what most of us eventually want to portray. Is it that much of a problem to want to RP that if it's fun to us?

 

At the end of the day, it's just a game.

[el capo]

7 minutes ago, subway244 said:

None of what you listed is LCN, or even comparable to how LCN is roleplayed. That's not to discredit those genres, but there are differences.

 

And whether or not any of those concepts evolve themselves into OCG factions or not isn't my business, but they should have a right to do so if it develops ICly. However, I think the reason most of them don't evolve into OCGs is because the people RPing the concepts simply don't want to. Me personally, as well as the majority of LCN RPers have the goal of making a crime family in mind, even if we start out as a crew. That's what most of us eventually want to portray. Is it that much of a problem to want to RP that if it's fun to us?

 

At the end of the day, it's just a game.

1) Elaborate on how they are different before I give you an answer.

 

2) No they should not have the right to because they don't evolve in reality, this is roleplay lmfao. 

 

3) Yeah, its just a game so I should be able to blam somebody for looking at me the wrong way? There are limitations for a reason.

[subway244]

10 minutes ago, el capo said:

1) Elaborate on how they are different before I give you an answer.

White power gangs, Sureno gangs and black gangs are not OCGs in the way LCN is, even LCN crews. A large portion of their income according to how I've seen them portrayed ICly comes from drug dealing and arms trafficking. With LCN, even though drugs/arms dealing is one component, the majority of their income is from white collar schemes or simply legal business. Furthermore, most LCN isn't a "gang", and the only good example of it being portrayed that way in GTAW (that I could find) is The North Vinewood Gang, which doesn't represent the broad tastes of the LCN community.

 

The only other way I could see an LCN gang being portrayed is like The Rampers from Bensonhurst, Brooklyn IRL (similar to the North Vinewood concept), but once again, it can't exist without a larger presence of made members, and it's not what most people want to portray anyway.

 

If we're arguing about the realism of Los Angeles, there's not enough Italian-Americans to constitute an "Italian street gang" like someone mentioned earlier. On the other hand, there is undeniable proof that the LACF exists, and we only know very little about how active they actually are.

 

13 minutes ago, el capo said:

2) No they should not have the right to because they don't evolve in reality, this is roleplay lmfao. 

They have the potential to evolve in reality, and do everyday - the only reason you rarely hear about active OCGs of any kind is because you usually don't find out they exist until they've been RICO'd and exposed. Believe me, I come from an LEO family and you'd be surprised how many Americans of every color and stripe are involved in some kind of organized criminal activity. Most are stupid and end up getting caught, but it doesn't stop it from happening, and it doesn't stop criminal organizations from operating effectively for years, albeit unknown to the outside world... literally the point of Cosa Nostra.

 

And to counter your final bit - yes, this is roleplay. We're here to have fun and be creative, and for some people, that's RPing LCN. I don't know why you came here, but if your attitude is to portray organized crime with 100% accuracy and refuse to acknowledge the fun factor, I really feel bad for you.

 

The honest truth is that nobody here except criminology graduates or IRL gangsters have a leg to stand on when it comes to speaking about realism, same with Hollywood... and an education from the Blackhand Forum or Gangster.bb isn't the same as working directly with the FBI.

 

20 minutes ago, el capo said:

3) Yeah, its just a game so I should be able to blam somebody for looking at me the wrong way? There are limitations for a reason.

DMing someone and portraying the American Mafia are apples and oranges.

[NickyW]

4 hours ago, Morrigan said:

I really hate attention seekers like you, so let me clear this up:

 

 

This was a convo about FAIM and LCN, because someone compared LCN to FAIM - I said, they weren't the same, because LCN barely exists in Califas, whilst FAIM dominates NorCal, and has reach in Central and some SoCal Counties.

 

Then the guy responded to me saying NorCal isn't LA.

 

Therefore I responded saying PB and Grape resemble Bakers and Fresno, which are Centro and So. based towns.

 

Then you come in trynna make yourself look like the best thing since God created the planet.

 

Overall, if you're going to shit talk and be a dick, at least be a dick with facts - don't act like a asshole and get corrected.

 

 

I don't hate you, at all.

 

In fact, I think it's sort of concerning that you're getting so spun up and I'd advise you to take a step back and maybe go for a walk or something. I can't imagine it's healthy to get so upset about a video game that you start hurling insults and taking things personally.

 

But--you want to talk about facts, so let's do that real quick. Let's talk about facts.

 

1. "LCN barely exists in Califas (whatever that means), whilst FAIM dominates NorCal and has reach in Central and some SoCal Counties"

 

This is...not really accurate at all. FAIM is nearly dead in in general, let alone in California. There's a small presence in the East-Bay, but it otherwise is almost completely extinct. The Contra Costa gang's most well-known founding member is not only in prison, but has denounced Nazism. There's been almost zero movement in the Bay area from FAIM or affiliated peckerwood gangs since around 2018, nearly five years ago. Their most recent headline is involves someone claiming membership with them being killed by police officers.

 

The majority of their former membership has been absorbed by the Aryan brotherhood and practically doesn't exist today on the West Coast. In fact, it's most prevalent in the federal prison system (as with most peckerwood gangs), particularly in Oklahoma and the rest of the Midwest.

 

As for whether it "dominates" anything, most people don't have any clue what "FAIM" stands for. It really only exists in the Rodeo/San Mateo/San Jose area, and has almost zero influence anywhere else. In fact, it's one of the least reported and least notorious street gangs in California at this point, having fizzled out in the early 2010's. 

 

So that statement is just...sort of...false. 

 

You are correct in stating that LCN is almost completely gone in California, a fact I haven't disputed. Of course--the Mob's MO these days is to stay off the radar, but, we'll assume for the sake of argument that they're not being heard from because they're not there anymore.

 

Just like FAIM.

 

2. He said NorCal isn't LA, Therefore I responded saying PB and Grape resemble Bakers and Fresno, which are Centro and So. based towns.

 

So, there's a couple things here.

 

First of all, I'm seeing three ways to interpret this statement. Feel free to pick which one is more accurate:

 

A. You're saying that the GTA V map includes not only SoCal locations, but also Central Cal locations, therefore, it makes sense that FAIM would exist on the server.

 

Sure. This is a sound, logical argument to make. Unfortunately, FAIM doesn't really exist in Southern California or Central California, and is prevalent really only in the East Bay, as we've previously gone over. Of course, you could make the argument that "well, it's different comparing LCN and FAIM because FAIM is in a different part of the state, meanwhile LCN isn't in the state at ALL". 

 

Well...I mean, that doesn't really make sense though, does it? Because where do you draw the line? The Mob is in New York, and New York and California are in the same country, just like how Rodeo and Los Angeles are in the same state.

 

Surely that's not the same thing, though, right? NY is thousands of miles away, LA and the East Bay are right next to eachother!

 

But wait a minute...LA is six hours away from Rodeo. Yep. That's right. The hot-bed of the FAIM, and in fact the only place it's still known to exist today on the West Coast, is a six hour drive from Los Angeles. For comparison, St. Joseph Missouri, where the Mob has never existed, is six hours away from Chicago, Illinois, the biggest Mob hotspot in the country outside of NYC.

 

I mean, Las Vegas is only three hours away from LA. Scottsdale is five hours. Phoenix is six hours. All of these places have had Mob activity in the last decade, and they're all closer to LA than the East Bay is! Reno's only seven hours away--Salt Lake city is only 8 or 9. Where do you draw the line?

 

 

B. You're saying that Bakersfield (I don't think I've ever heard it called Bakers, what part of California are you from?) and Fresno are Northern California locations, and therefore, the GTA V map does in fact include NorCal locations, so it makes sense that FAIM would exist on the server.

 

We've already discussed this. Bakersfield is decidedly Southern California, and Fresno is typically considered Central California. Neither location has any history whatsoever of FAIM presence.

 

Also...Paleto Bay is definitely not based on Fresno. Firstly, Fresno is completely land-locked, and is also fairly flat with few conifers, a significant amount of urban sprawl, and significantly less temperate-climate. Paleto Bay is a coastal town likely based on (and named after) Morro Bay, with attributes from places like Gorman. Both of these places are both also in Southern California.

 

C. You're saying that Paleto Bay and Grapeseed are based on Bakersfield and Fresno, which are southern and central Californian towns...and...that's it. That's all you're saying.

 

In which case...I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out why that's at all important to the discussion. How does pointing that out counter his argument that LA isn't NorCal? 

 

 

So, to wrap all of this up, I didn't really want to waste the better part of thirty minutes telling you specifically why and how you've been misguided in your last couple of replies, but you've basically dragged it out of me by not only insulting me several times, but also by blindly insisting that you're correct despite, in all likelihood, you having never lived in or even visited the Golden state, nor have I doubt you've ever interacted with any of the groups or locations you keep telling us you know so much about.

 

 

Sources:

 

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/05/26/ya-win-some-ya-lose-some-says-irish-gang-founder-after-life-sentence-in-crockett-murder/

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/world-crime/125-people-convicted-after-mass-investigation-into-irish-mob-gang-in-us-prison/41527470.html

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2016/07/22/contra-costa-da-says-irish-mafia-founder-put-a-hit-out-on-attorney/#link_time=1469253480

https://www.azcentral.com/picture-gallery/news/local/arizona-investigations/2022/08/07/photos-richard-cantarella-story-behind-arizonas-italian-american-club/10185945002/

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/links-to-white-supremacist-groups-probed-after-nazi-flags-found-in-raids-on-suspected-california-pipe-bombers/

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/19/white-nationalism-on-rise-in-california-as-bay-area-girds-for-rallies-next-weekend/

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/07/10/father-of-bay-area-irish-gang-founder-sentenced-for-meth-trafficking/

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2016/08/25/contra-costa-white-gang-leader-disavows-use-of-nazi-symbols/

 

 

 

 

 

Original Post:

 

I think LCN RP on the West-Coast is unrealistic. However, it is FAR from the least-realistic aspect of this server, or even the illegal RP community. If people don't want LCN because it's "unrealistic," cool. I'm down with that, as long as they're willing to put their factions on the chopping-block in the name of realism, as well--because that's a pretty big list.

[marbella mondays]

9 minutes ago, NickyW said:

 

 

C. You're saying that Paleto Bay and Grapeseed are based on Bakersfield and Fresno, which are southern and central Californian towns...and...that's it. That's all you're saying.

 

In which case...I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out why that's at all important to the discussion. How does pointing that out counter his argument that LA isn't NorCal? 

 

 

 

 

C would be correct, he pointed out NorCal isn't LA (to what I interpret) to rebuttle something along the lines of FAIM shouldn't exist in the server, which I responded with saying the above:

 

Now maybe Fresno isn't based on Paleto Bay, and if so I stand corrected and admit my inaccuracy there. 

 

My health is fine thank you, I'm not taking this to heart at all - typing this as I cook up some dinner IRL actually. What I will say is that I don't really fuck with the petty energy and attitude to try n stoop low to nitpick at stuff to attention seek. 

 

I'm more than happy to go over this with you in PMs or DMs about what is and isn't. The discussion is about LCNs, I'd rather not derail the topic like others have done.