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Why is LCN RP so stigmatized?


subway244
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I honestly have no idea why there's such a stigma against LCN RP these days from the illegal community. Italian mob RP has been around since forever, it's probably the oldest RP'd concept since the earliest days of GTA Roleplay. It's one of the only established roleplay subcommunities that has stayed relatively the same since as far back as the mid-to-late 2000s. There's a lot, and I mean A LOT of people who'd still realistically RP the Italian mob and WANT to, but can't because there's apparently some kind of hatred toward it, by what appears to be only a minority within the illegal scene.

 

The biggest argument I see from people is how "IRL, the mob's presence on the west coast is super small."

 

I'm not arguing that we should turn Los Santos into New York, but there's a reason we RP in a fictional city/universe as opposed to real life Los Angeles. The fictional boundaries of the location enable you to pursue concepts like LCN without 100% adhering to how Los Angeles is IRL. The whole fun of roleplay is escapism, and it's kind of a shift away from good storytelling and more a shift toward Eclipse-ism when OOC considerations come before IC creativity. It's undemocratic and frankly authoritarian, and all it's gonna do is lead to shit-tier RP and further sink the illegal scene into mediocrity.

 

I've been part of servers where what happens IC is policed to the extent where the boundary between In Character and Out Of Character is blurred. It gets to the point where it stops feeling like RP storytelling, and starts feeling like some overly-realistic MMORPG, and it's not fun. It's not what GTAW should be, when we're supposed to be an example to people who's only "RP" experience comes from Eclipse/FiveM.

 

I might sound like a cranky old man, but it's the truth. If people really don't like LCN so much, let them fight it out ICly. In the meantime, if ICly the entirety of New York decides to flock west to set up shop in Los Santos, it should be allowed to happen within the fictional timeline we portray.

 

We're supposed to be creating a simulated fictional city/storyline, not a simulated Los Angeles. Me and a lot of other people view GTAW as really nothing more than meticulously detailed, collaborative worldbuilding. Los Santos is ours to mold and shape, and that extends to the people who find it fun to portray La Cosa Nostra - which like I said, is a big demographic.

 

The same people who claim LCN is unrealistic should also point their fingers at Sinaloan narcotrafficking cells with cowboy hats and body armor, or Russian mobs portrayed like a bratva from Brighton Beach in the 90s. I love all three, and I think they should all be given an equal opportunity to exist ICly - but if only one gets banned on the grounds of "realism", the other two should be as well.

 

4.jpg

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I’m don’t think LCN RP is stigmatized, more like it’s just “Bad” RP being stigmatized. The length and history of LCN RP works both for and against it, like gang RP. When it’s good, it’s really good. But everyone has had that John Gotti/Tony Soprano wannabe come try and tax their store for no reason.

 

I think GTA:W would benefit from a revamp or “built from the ground up” LCN group. It would need a lot of time and dedication to develop, and that’s harder than it seems.

Edited by K0range4
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20 minutes ago, subway244 said:

4.jpg



 

Spoiler

I honestly have no idea why there's such a stigma against LCN RP these days from the illegal community. Italian mob RP has been around since forever, it's probably the oldest RP'd concept since the earliest days of GTA Roleplay. It's one of the only established roleplay subcommunities that has stayed relatively the same since as far back as the mid-to-late 2000s. There's a lot, and I mean A LOT of people who'd still realistically RP the Italian mob and WANT to, but can't because there's apparently some kind of hatred toward it, by what appears to be only a minority within the illegal scene.

To say "realistically RP the Italian mob" if you just listened to what people tell you. Because it's legit what a lot of people have been saying within the illegal community, LCN RP doesn't belong on a West Coast atmosphere; why? LACF (LSCF) is the only still standing/operating crime family within what we portray as Los Santos, albeit they're a minority to what major organizations are actually within the actual city itself. There aren't no splinter cells of this crime family or that crime family. LCNs are East Coast driven where they reign and have the most power. Anyways, to say oldest RPd concepts since the earliest days of GTA RP; you clearly weren't on LSRP's server. Where there was legitimately like 2 crime families at max, that reigned for a very very very long time; and they were eras of previous members that weren't banned from the concepts they were trying to portray from the previous leadership (sorry to burst your bubble on this one but it's just a fact that I have to point out) 

To touch back onto the realistically RP the Italian mob quote, you don't portray anything realistic at FUCKING ALL when it comes to realistic Italian-American characters. I as an Italian-American whom is related to well over 400+ other italians (surprise, big ass Italian family) have not once seen any of my cousins, brothers, uncles, dad, mom, grand parents, great uncles. Dress like it's the 60s, 70s or 80s in 3 piece suits; sure a tucked in polo with some slacks and/or jeans is reasonable. But to not have a casual untucked shirt — i digress, you get the point. You stereotype the living shit out of the way a EAST COAST Italian speaks as well as stereotype the way they dress (aforementioned 60s, 70s & 80s apparel) it's just saddening to see that you said realistically RPd.

 

Spoiler

The biggest argument I see from people is how "IRL, the mob's presence on the west coast is super small."

 

I'm not arguing that we should turn Los Santos into New York, but there's a reason we RP in a fictional city/universe as opposed to real life Los Angeles. The fictional boundaries of the location enable you to pursue concepts like LCN without 100% adhering to how Los Angeles is IRL. The whole fun of roleplay is escapism, and it's kind of a shift away from good storytelling and more a shift toward Eclipse-ism when OOC considerations come before IC creativity. It's undemocratic and frankly authoritarian, and all it's gonna do is lead to shit-tier RP and further sink the illegal scene into mediocrity.


You're on a heavy role play server that is about realism and great portrayal of counter parts from the IRL to video game. Let's take away this "italian mobs don't belong on the west coast" topic and lets say you want to open a Gangster Disciples gang (a popular Chicago gang, the midwest) in Las Angeles (west coast) it's massively unrealistic and doesn't make sense does it? So there's a rule in place set by IFM in which, Shanks, Honey, Hipsxn, Igloo, Lucky and so forth have said NO to having anything to do with the server. As of recently, Honey has put a strong "not happening for the time being" on LCN concepts, you've acknowledged this and were asking questions about it; she followed up with saying something along the lines of (don't quote me) a small counter part IE a crew could happen but a full blown Crime Family isn't going to happen. THAT is where again the rules being placed by IFM restrict you from wanting to live out your Tony Soprano stereotyped fantasy.

 

Spoiler

I've been part of servers where what happens IC is policed to the extent where the boundary between In Character and Out Of Character is blurred. It gets to the point where it stops feeling like RP storytelling, and starts feeling like some overly-realistic MMORPG, and it's not fun. It's not what GTAW should be, when we're supposed to be an example to people who's only "RP" experience comes from Eclipse/FiveM.


Different servers, different rules; simple.

 

Spoiler

I might sound like a cranky old man, but it's the truth. If people really don't like LCN so much, let them fight it out ICly. In the meantime, if ICly the entirety of New York decides to flock west to set up shop in Los Santos, it should be allowed to happen within the fictional timeline we portray.


Advocating for rule breaking and people bitching, groaning and complaining about getting killed over a virtual game. If for whatever logical reason an entire LCN network decides to move from where they have a IRON FIST to where there's on an irl scale, a larger group of Surenos controlled by La eMe, Euroasian orgs that are superiorly more ruthless than LCNs, would entirely be like sending 4 of your best soldiers into an ambush knowing there's 900 guns aimed at them the moment they go into X spot to be firing squad. It's not a smart play and overall dumb.

 

Spoiler

We're supposed to be creating a simulated fictional city/storyline, not a simulated Los Angeles. Me and a lot of other people view GTAW as really nothing more than meticulously detailed, collaborative worldbuilding. Los Santos is ours to mold and shape, and that extends to the people who find it fun to portray La Cosa Nostra - which like I said, is a big demographic.


The lore of the server, isn't fictional. It's actual in game events that happen; nothing is fictional or made up. Sure we play a RP server, but the fictional aspect of wanting to say "it's only game, let me RP Tony Soprano because its game" when it realistically doesn't make sense is next to not logically thinking. Simply to put, if Liberty City's server didn't die out, LCN factions could've strived over there and nobody would've cared or batted an eye. Now that the server is closed you want to bring all that back to the west coast. That ain't happening.

 

Spoiler

The same people who claim LCN is unrealistic should also point their fingers at Sinaloan narcotrafficking cells with cowboy hats and body armor, or Russian mobs portrayed like a bratva from Brighton Beach in the 90s. I love all three, and I think they should all be given an equal opportunity to exist ICly - but if only one gets banned on the grounds of "realism", the other two should be as well.


I been waiting to get through your bulk of your OP to this part. Since you mentioned Sinaloa Narcotrafficking cells w/ Cowboy hats and body armor (everything besides the last two things applies to the concept i co-lead) is by far more realistic due to the simple fact that Mexico is literally a 2 hour & 11 minute drive from LA/LS to the border. They control a lot of the drugs coming in and out of the United States from Mexico; thus massively a lot more realistic than what you're wanting to portray. Now we aren't portraying some AK47 toting, driving big ass pick ups and wearing CDS kevlar vests and going and purging LSSD/LSPD for simply doing their job. No, we're RPing a newer generation of narcotics traffickers that are an independent cell.

Euroasian orgs are still again massively much more realistic than LCN based ones, simply due to the fact that there's a lot of diversity and foreign powers that're international and landed in California and started their orgs there. LCN is a hard lock based one on the East Coast and doesn't really have much weight on the West Coast besides the LACF(LSCF if you want to get the whole "it's not California" thing) 

LCNs should simply not belong unless you go through the struggle of being a crew for a very very very very very very very ... very long time before you gain enough IC power to become a Crime Family. Even then, from what you described to somebody "I don't see my character lasting two months before he gets killed" that wouldn't even happen.


In conclusion, it's a no from me big dog.

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27 minutes ago, Smurf said:



 

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I honestly have no idea why there's such a stigma against LCN RP these days from the illegal community. Italian mob RP has been around since forever, it's probably the oldest RP'd concept since the earliest days of GTA Roleplay. It's one of the only established roleplay subcommunities that has stayed relatively the same since as far back as the mid-to-late 2000s. There's a lot, and I mean A LOT of people who'd still realistically RP the Italian mob and WANT to, but can't because there's apparently some kind of hatred toward it, by what appears to be only a minority within the illegal scene.

To say "realistically RP the Italian mob" if you just listened to what people tell you. Because it's legit what a lot of people have been saying within the illegal community, LCN RP doesn't belong on a West Coast atmosphere; why? LACF (LSCF) is the only still standing/operating crime family within what we portray as Los Santos, albeit they're a minority to what major organizations are actually within the actual city itself. There aren't no splinter cells of this crime family or that crime family. LCNs are East Coast driven where they reign and have the most power. Anyways, to say oldest RPd concepts since the earliest days of GTA RP; you clearly weren't on LSRP's server. Where there was legitimately like 2 crime families at max, that reigned for a very very very long time; and they were eras of previous members that weren't banned from the concepts they were trying to portray from the previous leadership (sorry to burst your bubble on this one but it's just a fact that I have to point out) 

To touch back onto the realistically RP the Italian mob quote, you don't portray anything realistic at FUCKING ALL when it comes to realistic Italian-American characters. I as an Italian-American whom is related to well over 400+ other italians (surprise, big ass Italian family) have not once seen any of my cousins, brothers, uncles, dad, mom, grand parents, great uncles. Dress like it's the 60s, 70s or 80s in 3 piece suits; sure a tucked in polo with some slacks and/or jeans is reasonable. But to not have a casual untucked shirt — i digress, you get the point. You stereotype the living shit out of the way a EAST COAST Italian speaks as well as stereotype the way they dress (aforementioned 60s, 70s & 80s apparel) it's just saddening to see that you said realistically RPd.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The biggest argument I see from people is how "IRL, the mob's presence on the west coast is super small."

 

I'm not arguing that we should turn Los Santos into New York, but there's a reason we RP in a fictional city/universe as opposed to real life Los Angeles. The fictional boundaries of the location enable you to pursue concepts like LCN without 100% adhering to how Los Angeles is IRL. The whole fun of roleplay is escapism, and it's kind of a shift away from good storytelling and more a shift toward Eclipse-ism when OOC considerations come before IC creativity. It's undemocratic and frankly authoritarian, and all it's gonna do is lead to shit-tier RP and further sink the illegal scene into mediocrity.


You're on a heavy role play server that is about realism and great portrayal of counter parts from the IRL to video game. Let's take away this "italian mobs don't belong on the west coast" topic and lets say you want to open a Gangster Disciples gang (a popular Chicago gang, the midwest) in Las Angeles (west coast) it's massively unrealistic and doesn't make sense does it? So there's a rule in place set by IFM in which, Shanks, Honey, Hipsxn, Igloo, Lucky and so forth have said NO to having anything to do with the server. As of recently, Honey has put a strong "not happening for the time being" on LCN concepts, you've acknowledged this and were asking questions about it; she followed up with saying something along the lines of (don't quote me) a small counter part IE a crew could happen but a full blown Crime Family isn't going to happen. THAT is where again the rules being placed by IFM restrict you from wanting to live out your Tony Soprano stereotyped fantasy.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I've been part of servers where what happens IC is policed to the extent where the boundary between In Character and Out Of Character is blurred. It gets to the point where it stops feeling like RP storytelling, and starts feeling like some overly-realistic MMORPG, and it's not fun. It's not what GTAW should be, when we're supposed to be an example to people who's only "RP" experience comes from Eclipse/FiveM.


Different servers, different rules; simple.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I might sound like a cranky old man, but it's the truth. If people really don't like LCN so much, let them fight it out ICly. In the meantime, if ICly the entirety of New York decides to flock west to set up shop in Los Santos, it should be allowed to happen within the fictional timeline we portray.


Advocating for rule breaking and people bitching, groaning and complaining about getting killed over a virtual game. If for whatever logical reason an entire LCN network decides to move from where they have a IRON FIST to where there's on an irl scale, a larger group of Surenos controlled by La eMe, Euroasian orgs that are superiorly more ruthless than LCNs, would entirely be like sending 4 of your best soldiers into an ambush knowing there's 900 guns aimed at them the moment they go into X spot to be firing squad. It's not a smart play and overall dumb.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

We're supposed to be creating a simulated fictional city/storyline, not a simulated Los Angeles. Me and a lot of other people view GTAW as really nothing more than meticulously detailed, collaborative worldbuilding. Los Santos is ours to mold and shape, and that extends to the people who find it fun to portray La Cosa Nostra - which like I said, is a big demographic.


The lore of the server, isn't fictional. It's actual in game events that happen; nothing is fictional or made up. Sure we play a RP server, but the fictional aspect of wanting to say "it's only game, let me RP Tony Soprano because its game" when it realistically doesn't make sense is next to not logically thinking. Simply to put, if Liberty City's server didn't die out, LCN factions could've strived over there and nobody would've cared or batted an eye. Now that the server is closed you want to bring all that back to the west coast. That ain't happening.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The same people who claim LCN is unrealistic should also point their fingers at Sinaloan narcotrafficking cells with cowboy hats and body armor, or Russian mobs portrayed like a bratva from Brighton Beach in the 90s. I love all three, and I think they should all be given an equal opportunity to exist ICly - but if only one gets banned on the grounds of "realism", the other two should be as well.


I been waiting to get through your bulk of your OP to this part. Since you mentioned Sinaloa Narcotrafficking cells w/ Cowboy hats and body armor (everything besides the last two things applies to the concept i co-lead) is by far more realistic due to the simple fact that Mexico is literally a 2 hour & 11 minute drive from LA/LS to the border. They control a lot of the drugs coming in and out of the United States from Mexico; thus massively a lot more realistic than what you're wanting to portray. Now we aren't portraying some AK47 toting, driving big ass pick ups and wearing CDS kevlar vests and going and purging LSSD/LSPD for simply doing their job. No, we're RPing a newer generation of narcotics traffickers that are an independent cell.

Euroasian orgs are still again massively much more realistic than LCN based ones, simply due to the fact that there's a lot of diversity and foreign powers that're international and landed in California and started their orgs there. LCN is a hard lock based one on the East Coast and doesn't really have much weight on the West Coast besides the LACF(LSCF if you want to get the whole "it's not California" thing) 

LCNs should simply not belong unless you go through the struggle of being a crew for a very very very very very very very ... very long time before you gain enough IC power to become a Crime Family. Even then, from what you described to somebody "I don't see my character lasting two months before he gets killed" that wouldn't even happen.


In conclusion, it's a no from me big dog.

 

you should definitely revaluate yourself if another player's roleplay choices effect you this much

 

let folk roleplay what they choose and it's completely up to you whether or not you roleplay with them or not

Edited by Dante_Inglewood
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6 minutes ago, Dante_Inglewood said:

 

you should definitely revaluate yourself if another player's roleplay choices effect you this much

 

let folk roleplay what they choose and it's completely up to you whether or not you roleplay with them or not

nothing effects me LMAO it just logically doesn't make sense

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40 minutes ago, Smurf said:

nothing effects me LMAO it just logically doesn't make sense

It logically doesn't make sense if you're arguing from the perspective that the whole purpose of GTAW is to re-create Los Angeles 1:1. My whole argument was that there was a point in time where original concepts and character ideas took precedence over realistically copying Los Angeles IRL. Back when quality RP was what mattered, and it wasn't so heavily policed OOCly.

 

The existence and history of Conti and Martorano is honestly nothing like the Los Angeles Crime Family and, believe it or not, a lot of players say that era was the most fun and memorable part of GTAW.

 

I know my experience in the Martorano Crime Family was more fun in one week than an entire month in MRC, where so much OOC pressure killed any opportunity we had to live out our Tony Soprano gabagool fantasy.

 

1 hour ago, Smurf said:

THAT is where again the rules being placed by IFM restrict you from wanting to live out your Tony Soprano stereotyped fantasy.

 

 And you're right. A lot of us, and I'd argue the majority of people who are part of the LCN RP community pursue the concept because we've seen The Sopranos and Goodfellas multiple times, and we've played Mafia II so much. We love the aura and glamour of the Italian-American Mob as much as white suburban kids love Compton gangbangers, or English kids love Narcos: Mexico.

 

Now, I'm not arguing that good LCN RP consists of 1970s mafia caricatures - we should leave that kinda shit-tier portrayal for voice servers. But I don't see what's wrong with giving us the ability to RP LCN as realistically as you portray a Sinaloan narcotrafficking cell, which is about the equivalent of Sopranos vs. IRL LCN in terms of realism.

 

Your arguments are a bit hypocritical, especially when you argue about stereotypes. Tell that to literally every criminal faction currently being RP'd - they're all stereotypes.

 

EDIT: These screens are as realistic as I am at portraying La Cosa Nostra.

Screenshot_2023-05-21_at_01-33-58_A_litt

VqWpYEq.png

Edited by subway244
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There's a level of  stigma against LCN in the same way that there's a stigma against all mainstream RP concepts that have a public and visible number of poor representatives going for them (whether or not they're representative of groups as a whole): from the caricature of a black man called Shaquantavious that feels practically like blackface while running around the map trolling, to the millionth vapid lesbian supermodel that is played by someone who has to borrow all their inspiration on how women behave from porn while hopping from club to club.

 

People get excited for new RP concepts and want to get on track with them quick, and often tend to jump the shark on the first weeks of a character's life, especially if they want to join a faction and they're not very developed yet. This tends to be when you see new LCN associates rapidly become caricatures and trying to find their place while they play the "Ay boss, call me if you need someone to do some work on the side" story beat.

 

... These aforementioned characters are also a lot more public than the heads of LCN organizations and thus can end up being what people associate with the RP. Is it fair? Not really, but the standards expected from LCN RP are just higher for it, it is what it is.

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32 minutes ago, subway244 said:

 

I digress to not shit post and derail your own topic. But if you knew what content for making a thread look interesting and not bitching n whining for almost 2 whole months about a virtual CK with a 5 minute explanation video on why it shouldn't of happened. Take shit on the chin n move on.

3 people posing with guns for a picture that isn't for the public to see, but posted for a thread's content & my character's joke of a airsoft replica RPG he's posted for a get-up he's preparing to be for Halloween. You know, some real life human features that you don't know besides stereotypically flicking your pinched fingers togethers and wrist back and forth while having tear streams roll down your cheeks about LCN RP not being allowed.

 

Laughable. It's something you nor me will agree on as you come from a different plain of roleplay.

 

image.png

Joe Pesci's young doppler, a massive stereotype. 

https://chloeverse.fandom.com/wiki/Adrián_Montenegro

let's not get on about your Paisa character who oddly enough looks like an LCN associate. Who I'd like to add is a 20 y/o Cuban soldier veteran which makes little sense as it says in the wiki he was in the USMC but on your character's screenshot thread it states Cuban military. Portrayal is out of whack. 

https://the-mafia.fandom.com/wiki/Vince_Torelli
https://chloeverse.fandom.com/wiki/Torelli_family

This shit just keeps stacking and stacking, I really don't mean to sound like an asshole but you're really painting a picture for your audience. 

All in all to maintain the topic to not derail it with back n forth bickering and us getting forum warnings on our accounts, if you wish to discuss this further. You're always welcomed to message me.

Edited by Smurf
grammar issues, L on my part
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13 minutes ago, Koko said:

There's a level of  stigma against LCN in the same way that there's a stigma against all mainstream RP concepts that have a public and visible number of poor representatives going for them (whether or not they're representative of groups as a whole): from the caricature of a black man called Shaquantavious that feels practically like blackface while running around the map trolling, to the millionth vapid lesbian supermodel that is played by someone who has to borrow all their inspiration on how women behave from porn while hopping from club to club.

 

People get excited for new RP concepts and want to get on track with them quick, and often tend to jump the shark on the first weeks of a character's life, especially if they want to join a faction and they're not very developed yet. This tends to be when you see new LCN associates rapidly become caricatures and trying to find their place while they play the "Ay boss, call me if you need someone to do some work on the side" story beat.

 

... These aforementioned characters are also a lot more public than the heads of LCN organizations and thus can end up being what people associate with the RP. Is it fair? Not really, but the standards expected from LCN RP are just higher for it, it is what it is.

I totally agree with you, 100%.

 

OG Martorano solved this issue, at least during my time last year, by weeding out shit-tier LCN RPers. They did this through restricting membership only to people who got involved ICly. To my knowledge, someone couldn't join because of who they're friends with OOCly, or because they messaged someone on discord.

 

The faction was comprised primarily of Italian-American criminal characters who, prior to them joining MCF, were independent (even if for a short while). Just like my char Vincent Torelli, I had him for nearly a year before I got involved with MCF, by pure chance.

 

Restricting membership to IC recruitment allows faction management to only focus on the quality of the individual's RP rather than who they are OOCly. I never even got invited to the faction script or the main family discord until about 3 months into my time within the organization, and I remember our portrayal being excellent both in-game and what we put on our faction thread.

Edited by subway244
grammar
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