Portrayal Issues

[LilManiac]

From an RPQM POV portrayal issues are simple. Before doing something with your character even if it's something simple as climbing a wall or a whole lifestyle you choose for the character, take a breath and think for a moment, is it realistic? Does this happen irl? If the answer is no, then don't do it. You can' possibly outrun the cops as a 50 year old man by doing parkour over 8ft walls. You can't also be owning a penthouse apartment and a 400k car while working as a barista or a mechanic of some local garage. The game script lets you do a lot of things but that doesn't mean that you're able to do them realistically. So as I said above, just think before you do something or make a choice.

 

 

Also keep the the discussion on topic, anymore personal attacks or random troll post will start receiving warnings and have your content moderated. 

[knppel]

The examples you bring show it yourself- those are absolutely exaggerated picky examples that, in this way, barely ever actually occur ingame.

-We have no 50 year old men running from cops, it's teenagers 70% of the time

-the barrista having a car and house is also a bad example as the only character known to have a house and flashy car while working as bartender regularly and roleplaying this as sole job is @Chipsdose. Who's sticking to the job since several years irl and thus has all valid grounds to also rp savings and live in a not shitty house if he wants to.

-Last but not least, taking a breath to consider my character's actions is not always a healthy option, for instance when being shot at.

 

4 hours ago, LilManiac said:

Does this happen irl?

And this approach is particularly problematic:

If I justify unreasonable actions of my character with "This having happened like that irl", accompanied with youtube video evidence, I'm already aware ooc my character maybe shouldn't actually have done this, but I'm trying to claim it a valid course of action nonetheless as someone irl was equally stupid.

 

The biggest problem with this part is that reality is simply more diverse than any of us could really imagine.

I have a really stupid idea? Rest assured someone else had it before me (and might have suffered potential consequences).

 

The question should be if stuff makes sense ic, not if it might plausibly happen irl. Pretty much anything might happen irl.

 

4 hours ago, LilManiac said:

From an RPQM POV portrayal issues are simple

Let me highlight the player perspective for you which is way less simple sadly:

 

Besides the mentioned "roleplay quality management", as player in the position of the op, thus being part of a legal faction, I'm subject to much more supervision, and (irony!) it does happen irl that these supervision patterns, in theory all meant to assure roleplay quality despite not being flagged with this name, cross each other or give conflicting verdicts, due to a lack in internal communication.

 

More precicely, this is what I have to possibly take in account (besides rpqm) if I want to establish my character:

-faction management's opinion

-faction leadership's opinion

-if I want a house, I'll have to deal with pm.

 

So that's on first glance 3 staff divisions and the own faction leadership that might potentially sanction me if my portrayal's not up to par, even if I never break rules and never get reported thus.

Damn, motivating.

in an ideal world that'd be a thick net that ensures no questionable portrayals ever slip through, as someone should notice something.

In practice however reality works different and conflicting statements are happening regularly:

 

Example, the mentioned character, police officer, applies for a home to live in via property management, and they grant that, only to then cause rpqm or the players' faction leadership to pick up on what they consider a wrong asset for this character.

 

It's also safe to assume the player did several times take a breath to consider their actions (those apps for houses and legal factions do not write themselves on their own either).

However no matter how often you rethink it, it might just be so person A thinks this house fits your char, while person B doesn't, and both in their own means have ways to sanction this (in the worst cases without coordination between involved parties).

 

tl;dr:

Of course it's simple from my pov to trash others' rp.

Making everyone happy with my rp is a whole different challenge and staff would do well taking this in account as a whole imho, not single it out to matters like assets, "quality" or factions. It can't realistically be expected from players everyone likes their rp. That's just not in, opinions differ.

[radreaper100]

4 hours ago, LilManiac said:

From an RPQM POV portrayal issues are simple. Before doing something with your character even if it's something simple as climbing a wall or a whole lifestyle you choose for the character, take a breath and think for a moment, is it realistic? Does this happen irl? If the answer is no, then don't do it. You can' possibly outrun the cops as a 50 year old man by doing parkour over 8ft walls. You can't also be owning a penthouse apartment and a 400k car while working as a barista or a mechanic of some local garage. The game script lets you do a lot of things but that doesn't mean that you're able to do them realistically. So as I said above, just think before you do something or make a choice.

 

 

Also keep the the discussion on topic, anymore personal attacks or random troll post will start receiving warnings and have your content moderated. 

Those are valid and easily recognized examples but what about when people start applying the term subjectively with a lack of evidence and it’s almost used as a means of stonewalling and punishing, especially in factions?

[LilManiac]

7 hours ago, knppel said:

And this approach is particularly problematic:

If I justify unreasonable actions of my character with "This having happened like that irl", accompanied with youtube video evidence, I'm already aware ooc my character maybe shouldn't actually have done this, but I'm trying to claim it a valid course of action nonetheless as someone irl was equally stupid.

 

The biggest problem with this part is that reality is simply more diverse than any of us could really imagine.

I have a really stupid idea? Rest assured someone else had it before me (and might have suffered potential consequences).

 

The question should be if stuff makes sense ic, not if it might plausibly happen irl. Pretty much anything might happen irl.

  The server rules really point out what you are allowed to do and what you're not. We have always highlighted the fact that just because something happens irl doesn't mean that it's justifiable on the server. An example I got on top of my head is people getting shot over petty reasons, we know how people get shot for being at the wrong place irl but do we allow that on the server? No, on the server a gunfight should be the result of proper escalation. The issue here, mainly the term 'portrayal issue', is that people see it as a vague description, but if you stop and take a moment to think on it it's not that complex.  In the scenario that started this whole discussion they mentioned about their portrayal was considered not good for multiple LEO factions, what are the factors here? It might be simple case of how they were carrying around themselves or how much assets they own. At the end of the day it's on a case to case basis.

 

 

7 hours ago, knppel said:

It's also safe to assume the player did several times take a breath to consider their actions (those apps for houses and legal factions do not write themselves on their own either).

However no matter how often you rethink it, it might just be so person A thinks this house fits your char, while person B doesn't, and both in their own means have ways to sanction this (in the worst cases without coordination between involved parties).

   This is an issue that can be solved rather easily. Miscommunication can happen, we all make mistakes, but if you take your time to reach out to the parties involved and try to explain your side it can be always solved without much fuss.

 

6 hours ago, radreaper100 said:

Those are valid and easily recognized examples but what about when people start applying the term subjectively with a lack of evidence and it’s almost used as a means of stonewalling and punishing, especially in factions?

Again, this is something that can be solved by reaching out to either LFM or RPQM. We can always contact the said faction leaders and figure out what's going on and proceed accordingly.

[vally]

As it was mentioned already, there aren't precise standards for roleplaying. We play on a roleplay platform inspired from the real world, but remember that even movies and novels inspired from reality have a tiny of irrealism. Could they be more realistic? Yes, but straying a little makes things more interesting and devotion for realism would be pointless. Nobody needs to replicate the real world, where we spend all of our time, again as it is in a virtual environment. What we want is to have fun and create an interesting environment to play in. Some players I met on GTAW wonder the difference between realism and roleplay, some think they're the same, others think that realistic play is what makes roleplay better. The way I see it, the difference is pretty much simple. Playing with high realism means giving priority in bringing the elements in the game environment as close as they are in the real world. You would focus on deeply describing your character action, deeply think about what a person in the real world would do in the given situation, question yourself about how your character life compares to the one of an existing person. On the other hand, roleplaying is about storytelling the plot you decide to give to your own character, see how it evolves when interacting with other characters, and make a difference from acting. You're not only planning, as acting demands, but playing on the moment, to see how they evolve in the world where characters are put in. By giving them a story and a personality, a faction to play with, you can create your own story where all the players, inside and outside the faction, contribute to give a setting to interact for the character you made. There are many roleplay platforms inspired by many lores, in this case the real world is the portrayed lore, but in every lore your character should be having wide possibilities. You can make an interesting character within the real world rules, but I think that in order to do so, you can't think only about what's real and what's not. You're not going to fly, but you're not going to carry a monotous portrayal, free of twists, either. You're free to give some originality and traits to your character, if they carry a legal job it doesn't mean they would always opt, at any situation, for a legal decision. If your character is a gangbanger it doesn't mean they are never going to let go of someone if they have nothing in return. Maybe a particular situation, that nobody knows but who created the character, is going to happen, and you're going to give the twist you waited for, and bring originality to a next step for the scene.

As it was mentioned before, don't play anything forcibly, you won't have fun. If you like sticking only to the real world then be it, but don't overthrow whoever is trying to bring something more.

[radreaper100]

On 12/17/2022 at 12:53 PM, vally said:

As it was mentioned already, there aren't precise standards for roleplaying. We play on a roleplay platform inspired from the real world, but remember that even movies and novels inspired from reality have a tiny of irrealism. Could they be more realistic? Yes, but straying a little makes things more interesting and devotion for realism would be pointless. Nobody needs to replicate the real world, where we spend all of our time, again as it is in a virtual environment. What we want is to have fun and create an interesting environment to play in. Some players I met on GTAW wonder the difference between realism and roleplay, some think they're the same, others think that realistic play is what makes roleplay better. The way I see it, the difference is pretty much simple. Playing with high realism means giving priority in bringing the elements in the game environment as close as they are in the real world. You would focus on deeply describing your character action, deeply think about what a person in the real world would do in the given situation, question yourself about how your character life compares to the one of an existing person. On the other hand, roleplaying is about storytelling the plot you decide to give to your own character, see how it evolves when interacting with other characters, and make a difference from acting. You're not only planning, as acting demands, but playing on the moment, to see how they evolve in the world where characters are put in. By giving them a story and a personality, a faction to play with, you can create your own story where all the players, inside and outside the faction, contribute to give a setting to interact for the character you made. There are many roleplay platforms inspired by many lores, in this case the real world is the portrayed lore, but in every lore your character should be having wide possibilities. You can make an interesting character within the real world rules, but I think that in order to do so, you can't think only about what's real and what's not. You're not going to fly, but you're not going to carry a monotous portrayal, free of twists, either. You're free to give some originality and traits to your character, if they carry a legal job it doesn't mean they would always opt, at any situation, for a legal decision. If your character is a gangbanger it doesn't mean they are never going to let go of someone if they have nothing in return. Maybe a particular situation, that nobody knows but who created the character, is going to happen, and you're going to give the twist you waited for, and bring originality to a next step for the scene.

As it was mentioned before, don't play anything forcibly, you won't have fun. If you like sticking only to the real world then be it, but don't overthrow whoever is trying to bring something more.

Very solid points.

[Narco]

On 12/14/2022 at 6:18 PM, radreaper100 said:

 

 

And what's more is off the basis of these labels, of being removed from one faction or another faction due to character expectations or some other slippery slope of an argument that you're hit with, you'll find that the times for being barred from these factions can at times progress not only months, but in some case over a year. And these bans are serious, too. Especially when you consider that there's a limited number of agencies that an individual can apply to enjoy that kind of law-enforcement based roleplay, for example. And with reputations that seemingly carry from one circle to another, it's often the same people making those decisions over the same people that are on the proverbial shit-list of being labeled and denigrated a poor roleplayer or someone with a poor character. It shatters the IC/OOC boundary by halting progression or development artificially.

 

 

Am I a shitbag?

 

Thoughts?

Definitely can attest to this,

 

I've had an admin history which has been rocky on the server, I've been denied countless times from factions, more than I can count on one hand even after keeping a clean admin record for an extensive period of time, have been given permission by the factions leadership to apply and have still been constantly denied by recruitment staff. There's somewhat of a "blacklist" that can range for your entire time in the community and things you've done in the past can constantly be brought up to deny you regardless if it's been 2+ years. Law-enforcement based factions are very limited and when you have individuals which don't like you on an OOC basis or feel a certain way about you, you're stuck being forced into civilian / illegal roleplay which some individuals aren't here to do, it definitely shatters the IC / OOC boundary because even if you're a good person, have good intentions, and want to do good in a faction there's still individuals which have this OOC bias towards yourself that for some odd reason they cannot get over. 

 

So to sum it up, no you're not a shitbag. People just hold grudges, aren't open to giving people chances or opportunities and go out of their way to make sure other people have a hard time in the community because they don't want to see you progress due to your past. Personally? I think it's disappointing when you put a lot of your real life time and effort into even attempting to join a faction on a video game to have a good time and individuals are judging you on an OOC basis attempting to tell you who you are as a person. People are overly judgmental on an OOC basis and it isn't their job to do so. We're all here to have fun at the end of the day and I think toxicity even in a subliminal standpoint when it comes to an OOC situation should be frowned on. 

[radreaper100]

2 hours ago, Narco said:

Definitely can attest to this,

 

I've had an admin history which has been rocky on the server, I've been denied countless times from factions, more than I can count on one hand even after keeping a clean admin record for an extensive period of time, have been given permission by the factions leadership to apply and have still been constantly denied by recruitment staff. There's somewhat of a "blacklist" that can range for your entire time in the community and things you've done in the past can constantly be brought up to deny you regardless if it's been 2+ years. Law-enforcement based factions are very limited and when you have individuals which don't like you on an OOC basis or feel a certain way about you, you're stuck being forced into civilian / illegal roleplay which some individuals aren't here to do, it definitely shatters the IC / OOC boundary because even if you're a good person, have good intentions, and want to do good in a faction there's still individuals which have this OOC bias towards yourself that for some odd reason they cannot get over. 

 

So to sum it up, no you're not a shitbag. People just hold grudges, aren't open to giving people chances or opportunities and go out of their way to make sure other people have a hard time in the community because they don't want to see you progress due to your past. Personally? I think it's disappointing when you put a lot of your real life time and effort into even attempting to join a faction on a video game to have a good time and individuals are judging you on an OOC basis attempting to tell you who you are as a person. People are overly judgmental on an OOC basis and it isn't their job to do so. We're all here to have fun at the end of the day and I think toxicity even in a subliminal standpoint when it comes to an OOC situation should be frowned on. 

 

frankly im not sure why its so easy to get bingbonged from law enforcement factions barring major rulebreaks and toxicity, and stay bingbonged. it shouldnt be a year+ and portrayal issues aren't concrete things that you can point to definitively with empirical evidence and say "yeah that guy is awful at rp"...

 

you would have an easier time in real life getting fired from one law enforcement agency and going over to the next to get a job than you do here for perceived "bad roleplay." let that sink in. someone can get fired at one agency and go to the next easily IRL, it happens all the time, and yet we'll struggle here upon removal to get into another agency oocly because... why? people think you can't handle a virtual gun and badge.

Edited December 30, 2022 by radreaper100

[Narco]

33 minutes ago, radreaper100 said:

 

frankly im not sure why its so easy to get bingbonged from law enforcement factions barring major rulebreaks and toxicity, and stay bingbonged. it shouldnt be a year+ and portrayal issues aren't concrete things that you can point to definitively with empirical evidence and say "yeah that guy is awful at rp"...

 

you would have an easier time in real life getting fired from one law enforcement agency and going over to the next to get a job than you do here for perceived "bad roleplay." let that sink in. someone can get fired at one agency and go to the next easily IRL, it happens all the time, and yet we'll struggle here upon removal to get into another agency oocly because... why? people think you can't handle a virtual gun and badge.

Definitely agree with you, 

 

I noticed above an admin stated you can reach out to LFM, although LFM will simply let you know that "It's their faction, they chose who they want in it". Overall each faction has different people leading it with different opinions and different views, some are more respectful towards others, willing to give second chances, and are very transparent whereas some are not as transparent and are more strict / stern. I think LFM should be the last say if someone should be denied from a faction based on OOC accusations or OOC records, although that probably won't ever happen. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Narco

[Valkyria]

We should all get together and enjoy some meth instead of stressing over silly things.