Liquor Stores sell bigger varieties

[99]

17 minutes ago, Ink said:

Liquor stores have refused time and time again over the course of the last two years to purchase products to sell from breweries (unless it's generic crafted liquor which turns into the generic liquor they sell). Every liquor store I have ever approached (about 8 different liquor stores) has been entirely unwilling to engage in the roleplay of purchasing actual branded products from breweries to resell--why would they? It just cuts into their margins and creates more work for them to sell from their script.

Can liquor stores even list custom brewery products from their liquor store script? I know they have the standard generic items, but can it also list custom products? That might be where the disconnect is. The generic items can be bought at any time, but the brewery products have to be sold manually when the liquor store owner / worker is online and in the store. It would be great if the custom brewery products could be added to the menu and sold just like the generic beer/vodka/rum items.

Edited December 2, 2021 by 99

[Selu]

Quote

So what becomes the point of the breweries that have been doing exactly what's being proposed here for years now? If liquor stores can do exactly what breweries are trying to do (and already having difficulty because customers prefer easier solutions), then breweries cease to have any real purpose on the server except for incredibly niche RP.

Breweries don't create /every/ brand.  It's been stated in other posts, but there's no Miller, Pabst, Bud Light, or any other brand in our local area.   It's fine if a Local Brewery named "Waka" was to make "Waka 1.8% IPA" or some shit and sell that around and people still buy it because of brand recognition and, ideally, the liquor stores and bars trying to sell local products over imported ones.   But as it stands, breweries don't make the same items that bars have been making which is Pabst and other name brand items.     It doesn't help that breweries never advertise or try to distribute their product.   And not only that, Liquor Stores can't afford to buy /any/ kind of supply.  It takes selling 200 beers for me to actually be able to make $4,000 profit.   Personally, if my liquor store was making more money, I'd /love/ to be purchasing and trying to sell breweries goods.  Because I'd RATHER sell local product.   

 

Quote

Liquor stores have refused time and time again over the course of the last two years to purchase products to sell from breweries (unless it's generic crafted liquor which turns into the generic liquor they sell). Every liquor store I have ever approached (about 8 different liquor stores) has been entirely unwilling to engage in the roleplay of purchasing actual branded products from breweries to resell--why would they? It just cuts into their margins and creates more work for them to sell from their script.

 

So in this suggestion, what does the purpose of breweries become? Just become obsoleted by liquor stores as they were earlier in the server's run?

I mostly covered this in my earlier comment.  But like I said, we can't really afford 10 bottles of $400 beer.  We really don't make a profit off of it, either, because we have to mark it up further if we want to make anything from it.  I can't turn and sell it to a bar or a club 'cause you'd already be supplying them.  And like I said, breweries are a local name brand.   Their purpose isn't to really compete with the big brands people already go for such as "miller", it's to create a brand name that means something.   To reach out to the community and make something of themselves.  It's hard to do that when they never advertise or make their way around, though.  

Quote

Currently, the strength of liquor stores is that customers are able to buy booze easily and at a decent cost. Many bars/clubs would rather to go to a liquor store to buy booze because it's easier, faster, and requires less RP and coordination. People go to liquor stores to stock up for parties and other trips. This means liquor stores make significant sales by pushing product at little to no work required for them. Breweries sell a product that's cheaper and more customized, but that requires heaps more marketing, sales roleplay, negotiation, and fulfillment in delivery. What would be the purpose of breweries if a liquor store also beats them out on "quality" of product in addition to ease of access?

The strength of a liquor store is that we don't have to RP?   It's basically a 24/7 store, except rather than anybody being able to come and push our product or try to create roleplay we have to try to hire people to work for the government's $4K an hour.  Liquor Stores don't open because there's no reason to.   Profit is so low and the script stuff sells itself if anybody ACTUALLY wants it.  Liquor Stores generate no Roleplay.   The point of this update is to create more immersion and Roleplay for Liquor Stores which in turn should also help to drive more play to Breweries since we can, in turn, afford their items.

[Selu]

22 minutes ago, 99 said:

Can liquor stores even list custom brewery products from their liquor store script? I know they have the standard generic items, but can it also list custom products? That might be where the disconnect is. The generic items can be bought at any time, but the brewery products have to be sold manually when the liquor store owner / worker is online and in the store. It would be great if the custom brewery products could be added to the menu and sold just like the generic beer/vodka/rum items.

We can't listen them on the script, no.  We'd have to go out, purchase the items, then store them in our store inventory.   The other issue is the cost to get stuff from brewery versus what we can actually make selling it.  Pretty much our only clients are bars because most players like getting their hands on name brand items.   

[Ink]

55 minutes ago, Selu said:

Breweries don't create /every/ brand.  It's been stated in other posts, but there's no Miller, Pabst, Bud Light, or any other brand in our local area.   It's fine if a Local Brewery named "Waka" was to make "Waka 1.8% IPA" or some shit and sell that around and people still buy it because of brand recognition and, ideally, the liquor stores and bars trying to sell local products over imported ones.   But as it stands, breweries don't make the same items that bars have been making which is Pabst and other name brand items.     It doesn't help that breweries never advertise or try to distribute their product.   And not only that, Liquor Stores can't afford to buy /any/ kind of supply.  It takes selling 200 beers for me to actually be able to make $4,000 profit.   Personally, if my liquor store was making more money, I'd /love/ to be purchasing and trying to sell breweries goods.  Because I'd RATHER sell local product.   

 

We roleplay, as is realistic for the liquor industry in the real world, a brewery and a liquor distributor. As the server is not broad enough to adequately represent all aspects of the liquor supply chain, nor is there enough roleplay or demand on this server for a realistic brewery only creating the products they would. Trust me, I tried that--for the first few months of my brewery we only sold beer that we created ICly through extensive roleplay. We could barely find anyone willing to buy our beer because beer is not a popular request at the bars/clubs IC, and it's already dirt cheap at liquor stores so there's no real motivation to buy pricey "RP beer" for most businesses. We consistently lost business to all the breweries which hilariously roleplayed creating "all" types of liquor. We chose a more realistic way to represent that, building on existing roleplay that was about half a year older than the brewery to become a properly portrayed, realistic liquor distribution company.

 

Your suggestion to buff liquor stores (which are already a relatively strong business to begin with) will absolutely obliterate the small pull our business type has, and automate more roleplay, making the script more powerful to skip the people who have built their entire roleplay around something.

 

55 minutes ago, Selu said:

I mostly covered this in my earlier comment.  But like I said, we can't really afford 10 bottles of $400 beer.  We really don't make a profit off of it, either, because we have to mark it up further if we want to make anything from it.  I can't turn and sell it to a bar or a club 'cause you'd already be supplying them.  And like I said, breweries are a local name brand.   Their purpose isn't to really compete with the big brands people already go for such as "miller", it's to create a brand name that means something.   To reach out to the community and make something of themselves.  It's hard to do that when they never advertise or make their way around, though.  

 

Exactly, the liquor stores are uninterested in working with breweries because they would rather make larger profits selling their own script-sourced goods. Our prices definitely aren't $400/beer, and we have built our margins around offering our downstream purchasers (stores, bars, clubs, restaurants) plenty of room to make a respectable profit flipping the product. The biggest gain for everyone is that everyone gets roleplay out of it. 

 

There simply isn't enough reason on GTA:W for breweries to exist if  their only purpose is to create local name brands and nothing else. That would require a massive change in the server mentality and though it would be fantastic, we're not even close to that and trying to force the server's ruleset to accommodate a situation which doesn't exist would only needlessly strengthen the already competitively viable liquor store script and to completely destroy the beleaguered brewery script. 

 

From my research, the majority of restaurants/clubs/bars on this server buy their booze from liquor stores. You guys are already capturing the market, which is not realistic compared to how this works in the real world. Us breweries and liquor distributors have to essentially convince businesses that they're better off saving money buying from us, but that instead they'll have to fit in extra roleplay and coordination with us for negotiating purchases, resupplies, and to schedule and receive deliveries.

 

55 minutes ago, Selu said:

The strength of a liquor store is that we don't have to RP?   It's basically a 24/7 store, except rather than anybody being able to come and push our product or try to create roleplay we have to try to hire people to work for the government's $4K an hour.  Liquor Stores don't open because there's no reason to.   Profit is so low and the script stuff sells itself if anybody ACTUALLY wants it.  Liquor Stores generate no Roleplay.   The point of this update is to create more immersion and Roleplay for Liquor Stores which in turn should also help to drive more play to Breweries since we can, in turn, afford their items.

 

The roleplay of a liquor store is that it's a shop that people come into to buy their drinks. That's like saying there's no RP in a 24-7, but 24-7s have consistently been some of the most beloved and successful RP hotspots on this server when they're adequately run. I've seen liquor stores on GTA:W do what some liquor stores IRL are doing to create more business, and that's creating small areas to drink and hang out in the shop. 

 

If the point was to create more immersion and roleplay, liquor stores would seek out the existing manufacturers and distributors and roleplay with them to ICly, naturally, create a supply chain. What's actually happening in this suggestion is that you're suggesting liquor stores automatically be given immediate personal access to a fully vertically integrated supply chain which cuts out any opportunity for roleplay, further strengthens their business, further controls the market in their favor, and eliminates more than half the utility of the existing upstream roleplayers who already have a difficult time forging roleplay on a server where "good liquor" is as easy as /createdrinking anything you find.

 

I'll also note, liquor stores automatically get 4k/hr to pay their staff members. That means your average liquor store employee stands to make 12k in 3 hours of work, PLUS a cut (usually 15-30%) of all liquor sales they make, PLUS any bonuses the owner of the business wants to pay them. Breweries get no such 4k/hr stimulus at all. All the time we spend running ingredients, brewing the liquor through the script, roleplaying creating the liquor, seeking out customers, meeting with prospective clients, negotiating with them, organizing sales orders, and making deliveries brings us absolutely ZERO income and only incurs costs along the way. The prices we sell our booze for has to cover operational costs as well as to pay out all the RP wages for people. Guarantee you your average brewer makes significantly less than 4k/hr when all's said and done unless they're running an incredibly non-RP play-to-win con-brewery and they're just selling to their faction's buddies. No brewer on this server is making 12-15k pure profit for 3 hours of work every day--hell, most brewers aren't even pulling 12k in revenue a day, much less in profit. Liquor stores have nearly instant supply, streamlined sales, can sell while offline, and make free money for all employees while open in addition to profit margins which are comparable to the brewing business.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Ink

[Topinambour]

39 minutes ago, Ink said:

I'll also note, liquor stores automatically get 4k/hr to pay their staff members. Breweries get no such 4k/hr stimulus at all. All the time we sp [...] con-brewery and they're just selling to their faction's buddies. 

Hmm those are some actually fair points, although I'd say this doesn't address a major point of this suggestion (variety of liquors + having major accepted brands). It sounds more like the brewery system in general needs a serious improvement to be attractive - from what you're telling us here, I kind of understand why breweries are a rare oddity :x 

(I personally haven't seen one opened or advertised since I came back on the server, although I'd love to get some local booze for my bar)

 

The fact is that both aren't mutually exclusive. Giving liquor stores a bit more interest while making breweries a lot more attractive. I'm not sure we need to craft a scenario where someone (or everyone) loses.

 

E.g.: if breweries had less financial trouble, they could bring their costs down considerably, along with prices, thus making local brews a much more interesting option. As a bar owner, you'd go and buy more expensive alcohol only if it has an actual interest for you. 

Also if the liquor store script is improved? It means there won't be that problem of having brewery items rotting in the /pinv while people just use the menu to buy script bottles. I'm pretty sure there's even a lot more to be gained out of it. 

 

A last thing though, that was mentioned: it would also mean bars'd have to think more carefully about what they buy. If a liquor store only sells (random names) Coors and Corona beers, and you only buy that, you won't be able to transform those into a Bud. It means as a bar manager, you'd need to be more thoughtful about what you stock, what your clientele likes and asks for, etc. instead of just /createdrink'ing craft beer into whichever brand anyone wants ^^ 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Topinambour

[Selu]

Just now, Topinambour said:

Hmm those are some actually fair points, although I'd say this doesn't address a major point of this suggestion (variety of liquors + having major accepted brands). It sounds more like the brewery system in general needs a serious improvement to be attractive - from what you're telling us here, I kind of understand why breweries are a rare oddity :x 

(I personally haven't seen one opened or advertised since I came back on the server, although I'd love to get some local booze for my bar)

 

The fact is that both aren't mutually exclusive. Giving liquor stores a bit more interest while making breweries a lot more attractive. I'm not sure we need to craft a scenario where someone (or everyone) loses.

 

E.g.: if breweries had less financial trouble, they could bring their costs down considerably, along with prices, thus making local brews a much more interesting option. As a bar owner, you'd go and buy more expensive alcohol only if it has an actual interest for you. 

Also if the liquor store script is improved? It means there won't be that problem of having brewery items rotting in the /pinv while people just use the script to buy script bottles. I'm pretty sure there's even a lot more to be gained out of it. 

 

A last thing though, that was mentioned: it would also mean bars'd have to think more carefully about what they buy. If a liquor store only sells (random names) Coors and Corona beers, and you only buy that, you won't be able to transform those into a Bud. It means as a bar manager, you'd need to be more thoughtful about what you stock, what your clientele likes and asks for, etc. instead of just /createdrink'ing craft beer into whichever brand anyone wants ^^ 

I agree.   I think breweries and liquor stores need more love.  But breweries, while a nice idea, feel like they are in a weird spot REGARDLESS of the situation.  It's like making shop that makes items for a Jewelry Store and then being upset when they /createitem to make the Rolex the client wants so you don't get any Roleplay or sales.  
Realistically, the supplier is the port.   It's a /great/ roleplay idea, but the port is also supplying goods.  

 

For what it's worth, the $4K also doesn't matter.  If nobody is coming in to interact because all you sell are generic items that nobody has interest in and can get from ANY corner liquor store, the $4K an hour is literally just you RPing with yourself.

I also feel like if we had access to getting our generic beers, there'd be WAY more reason to actually buy the awesome local craft beers.  That said, it's late and I'll reply more tomorrow.  I'm glad to hear both sides of the discussion and hope great points come from both sides.     I hope rather than outright shooting ideas down, we get more constructive criticism and ideas on how to improve both sides.  I think right now, bars are the only ones sitting pretty.

[mj2002]

6 hours ago, Ink said:

So what becomes the point of the breweries that have been doing exactly what's being proposed here for years now? If liquor stores can do exactly what breweries are trying to do (and already having difficulty because customers prefer easier solutions), then breweries cease to have any real purpose on the server except for incredibly niche RP.

 

The supply chain should look like:

 

Breweries create and otherwise distribute alcohol to wholesalers like liquor stores and other businesses.

Customers either buy their booze from bars/clubs while on premises at a higher cost, or they buy it cheaper at a liquor store.

 

Liquor stores have refused time and time again over the course of the last two years to purchase products to sell from breweries (unless it's generic crafted liquor which turns into the generic liquor they sell). Every liquor store I have ever approached (about 8 different liquor stores) has been entirely unwilling to engage in the roleplay of purchasing actual branded products from breweries to resell--why would they? It just cuts into their margins and creates more work for them to sell from their script.

 

So in this suggestion, what does the purpose of breweries become? Just become obsoleted by liquor stores as they were earlier in the server's run?

 

Currently, the strength of liquor stores is that customers are able to buy booze easily and at a decent cost. Many bars/clubs would rather to go to a liquor store to buy booze because it's easier, faster, and requires less RP and coordination. People go to liquor stores to stock up for parties and other trips. This means liquor stores make significant sales by pushing product at little to no work required for them. Breweries sell a product that's cheaper and more customized, but that requires heaps more marketing, sales roleplay, negotiation, and fulfillment in delivery. What would be the purpose of breweries if a liquor store also beats them out on "quality" of product in addition to ease of access?

 

In the short term, seek out the existing liquor distributor RPers on the server who would be glad to stock your liquor store with any custom brands you want. We've already spent the two years roleplaying developing the connections within the liquor industry to facilitate that. It builds roleplay, it connects businesses, and it supports the projects which require tons of hard work to operate. Is it the most money-efficient way to win at the game? Probably not, but it makes for a stronger server.

 

 

Thank you. Finally someone who sees the consequences of this suggestion for what they really are. Both scripts need improvements;

• Breweries need a proper script so they can accelerate production compared to weird interactions with the current script.
• Liquor stores need to be able to list brewed items for sale, similar to a pawn shop.

We don't need to change the liquor stores in such a way that breweries become obsolete.

[Cameron_Myers]

+1 from me. I don't see why a liquor store should be limited to only a few basic drinks.

[Shepherd]

Supporting the idea!

[taboume]

This concept would attract more people to the liquor stores, and allows for more sophisticated RP. I'd like to see this invented. +1