Illegal RP and excessive violence

[Copa Cabana]

I've been around for a bit now and I notice that illegal RPers, especially particular groups will engage in violence to show they're "tough" at literally any given chance or at any slight inconvenience. Yes, some groups are supposed to be more violent but everyone wants to be violent in GTA:W. Matter of fact even civilians can't escape it. If you RP a regular civilian there's high likelihood you will meet and befriend someone who isn't a keen follower of the law who will crack some skulls of those that bother you. I shit you not, there's tons of illegal RPers who will murder someone just because they harrassed a friend of theirs. That's a huge risk of significant prison time over someone you barely know.

 

With everyone acting tough nearly every situation of conflict RP ends up in a beating (which leads the losing side to hunt down those that wronged them) or a shootout which isn't healthy for nobody. Matter of fact, if the IG police had same tools and way higher numbers of cops as IRL departments do, I bet 80 percent of illegal RPers would be serving long sentences right now.

 

Another excessive use of violence comes within illegal factions themselves. Let's take the LCN factions here and I am /NOT/ poking a stick at ANY of the LCN factions that exist, just saying there is a general trend like this. Essentially after a few fuck-ups guys get shot in the head and then buried in some hole. These factions also still roleplay you having to murder someone to "make your bones". What's the reality? LCN factions in real life aren't doing either of these two any more. The trend started in around mid 2010s so I guess not a lot of people caught up with it but essentially if a wiseguy fucks up he is put on the shelf (also known as shelving). What is that? It means that the mobster in question is barred from even talking to other members of the organization. Nobody will recognize or talk to him anymore. Some IRL mobsters have even stated that this is sometimes worse than being killed off as they lose everything they built and can't do nothing about it. What about making your bones? Surely the mob needs you to whack someone to get made. Nope, that is also untrue for these days. You still need to prove yourself though, the mob will most likely ask you to seriously injure or cripple someone to prove your worth.

 

 

All these things combined cause an illegal scene where literally every disagreement is solved with fights and shootouts, bodies are dropped everywhere and the PD has no chance to take a breath or spend time investigating any of these cases in detail (with few exceptions).

 

I want to know what could be done to fix this from all sides, from the faction management, to faction leaders, to casual roleplayers.

[wizardofxyz]

Here b4 the thread is inevitably locked when the illegal vs legal sides come in

Anyway, I think that the escalation that arises from any GTA RP server I've been on has always been this way, and it kinda sucks. I'm not too wholly sure if there is a concrete way to stamp out this 'problem' and some people might have very different experiences to me. This is just my anecdotal experience, so I won't paint the picture that this is 100% the case. Either way, if you think that someone has poorly escalated a situation or that some of the roleplay that's being facilitated by illegal factions isn't realistic, then I'm sure you can report it to administration and try solve your issue there.

[Knooflook]

I think the proclivity to violence comes from the nature of the scene really. It's very unfortunate that a lot of factions in general will aim towards violence, murder or even outright faction war. Especially in organized crime. These days an outright crime war is beneficial to NONE of the involved parties and there's such a vacuum of potential underworld politics that go untapped because there's both a general inclination towards being the king of your own little kingdom and just in general wanting to be a hard man who takes no shit. 

 

It's a shame especially because all the violence borders very much on lack of fear RP, not just from illegal RPers, but also from legal civilians at times. 

 

That's at least my personal experience, not that everyone is like this, far from it, but it is still a noticeable amount. 

[Ketamine Kowboy]

Realistic escalation of violence has been an issue as far back as I can remember. I'm not gonna get up gonna on a soapbox and say I've never done it myself, I have, but some people will end up shooting their own guys in the head for calling the boss "chubby" in a private conversation to another memeber. That and people stabbing someone for calling their girlfriend/wife sexy. 

 

 

[Armaros]

Seeing as I've been rping it for ages now, yes, you're right. Violence is always a first call for many illegal roleplayers, but it stems from the fact that most of them roleplay usually hotheaded, young immgirants - or hood rats. You'll rarely see an old head do it, and we actively encourage not attacking people in our businesses for the sole reason that it brings attention. 

I think the ideal thing is to NOT LOOK for trouble in the first place, don't talk back to someone who's obviously affiliated. Start roleplaying some fear there and there, some people are just about ready to shoot you and smack you in the mouth for talking to them like you would to anyone else. Pay attention to your surroundings
 

[Harbinger]

Almost everyone roleplays a tough guy without any remorse or emotions, they don't think about roleplaying a situation, the one thing in their mind is winning or losing the situation. People need to stop treating a roleplay server like it's GTA Online, it's downright ridiculous. Not only are people incredibly quick to pull their guns out, but they're usually extremely toxic as well. You barely see any well-developed characters, it's all about violence and money. Once they get caught they don't want to roleplay the consequences of their actions, they just killed someone and ten minutes later they're acting as if nothing happened. Not everyone should be a cold-blooded psychopath/sociopath. But the truth is people simply don't like losing and that's what they see.

[Jennie]

GTAW characters lack feelings, killing a person is not so easy even if you are part of a gang or mob or your character is a normal citizen with mental problems, but here everyone is John Wick and their characters is emptier than a mannequin inside.

[Copa Cabana]

I think Knooflook put it very well, everyone wants to be king of their little kingdom, but in reality a lot of groups, especially those engaged in organized crime are intertwined and can actually sit down with each other to sort out disputes or even beefs between members. I think that a fix for all of this really should come from Faction Management's way otherwise it won't work, because right now any faction that decides to refrain from violence and take it easy is on the weaker side. Let's say I run Faction A and I've told all my members to take it easy and chill, try not to commit violence unless it is really necessary. Faction B, on the other hand doesn't really care. Next thing I know they'll start beating my guys up on nearly a daily basis and ask for a tax. If I fight them then it's again the same unrealistic situation again, if I cave to them then I'm simply on the losing side.

 

I know FM in this server isn't seen in the best light, but I think it'd serve all sides well if they came up with some sort of initiative or solution to reduce violence. I truly believe that the management has enough smart people to figure something out, especially when FM has quite some influence in this server.

[mj2002]

1 hour ago, Harbinger said:

But the truth is people simply don't like losing and that's what they see.

 

In the more general sense, it is also that players simply want to experience only the satisfying aspects of character stories. They want the flashy action, the violence, just like many legal roleplayers drive expensive cars rather than the equivalent of a Honda CR-V or Toyota RAV4. This mentality is not black and white either, you see groups move beyond this and create more depth in their roleplay. However, at its core the mentality exists with every player to some degree. The way in which is expresses itself differs per player. The violent aspect is just very visible and easily conflicts with other players' experiences.

 

You can nudge this behavior in certain directions with rules, IC punishments for certain actions, etcetera, but this is mostly ineffective when it comes to those who fit the description of the player made in the first post. They're here for the action only. The best solution is curtail the excesses with rule enforcement, more strict entry applications, and otherwise simply avoid interacting with them altogether. Groups of like minded players can lift their quality of roleplay among themselves and perhaps with adjacent groups, but this isn't something that will ever be truly resolved. Its just the way people are.

Edited August 3, 2021 by mj2002

[Bellagio]

It all depends on both factions, as a leader of a big OCG I have already witnessed multiple situations that I had a sit down with another faction to talk about differences or beef and solve it.

I also came across certain situations that a random DM fest comes up with everyone been killed and the situation is over with and the entire RP between both factions is also done. I am a fan of sit downs to solve certain situations and even bend a knee if necessary recognizing a bigger power is never wrong, it is character development and faction development. If there is a faction around for 8+ months that spread their arms all around the city you don’t go and try to tax/kill/beat certain members of said faction because you might have 4-5 people more, they would have allies that can cut you off or assist them in retaliation.

This has been a problem for years in multiple communities and I do not see it change anytime soon, people do not wanna take losses and only wanna win.

aslong as that mentality doesn’t change these discussions will stay a thing.