Revamping Arrests - Points based system

[Omnia]

3 hours ago, Engelbert said:

This is heavy roleplay server, people are expected to invest some time and efforts into their character and their respective behaviours and actions, This is roleplay, not just a game, you know. This isn't a place where you log in after work for an hour or two, shoot some of your competition being on your turf and go to sleep. No it doesn't work like that. Roleplaying takes time. Considerably big amount of time, because roleplaying means to write a story, your story, in realistic manner, which includes penalties if you are caught doing crimes.

I mean, it is a game. A lot of people come or for an hour or two, usually three-four. If you're spending upwards of ten hours a day on the game you have to seriously reconsider your life.

1 hour ago, SugarDavis said:

As someone who played on Owl for 5 years, that had nothing to do with its downfall. You can blame that on Chaos' leadership after Maxime left and the fact the two head admins, ThatGuy and Wright, were literally neo-nazis. That whole UAT leadership contributed to the fall of the server. 

 

I've been doing police RP on this server for about a month. In that time I've only been in 2 pursuits and 1 shooting. In OwlGaming I easily got into at least 1 pursuit an hour and 1 shooting a day. That's with ~150 players vs the ~450 players we see here per server. 

 

Owl was extremely lenient with criminal RP. They were however strict about CK if you did something that blatantly disregarded your life (ie: deciding to pull a gun with 20 cops already aiming at you) whereas on this server it takes an act of god to force a CK. 

 

One problem I think this server has is that its over-policed. Even the littlest calls like a noise complaint will have 3 cars enroute to handle. I have yet to do criminal RP on this server but I imagine its extremely hard to get off the ground with an army of cops constantly patrolling places like Davis and Strawberry.

It had a lot of things to do with its downfall. I remember a specific faction who wanted to CK people, but the admins didn't let them, so they kidnapped them and put them in makeshift cells. A few of them appealed to the admin team saying "If they aren't RPing feeding us, let us be dead". The criminal restrictions were ridiculous near the end. Want to rob someone who has a licensed weapon? Hah, only a level 3 admin can let them even DROP the licensed weapon. The faction management thought they were a faction in and of themselves.

ThatFag wasn't a Neo-Nazi. Our government IC was though.

It is certainly overpoliced. There should be a limit to how many cops can go on duty/patrol at any one time, and it should scale with the players online.

1 hour ago, Tseard said:

 

 

Other servers had 911 calls coming in every 10 minutes, this server has times where only one call comes in a hour. If you have a dozen cops online, it's safe to say that they all respond. It shouldn't be happening though because I think it's very unrealistic and overkill to have a dozen units on scene for smaller crimes. This is an issue that should be tackled by the supervisors and the faction's leadership. I know for a fact that we at the LSSD delegate units to calls and ensure that calls like that are not being swarmed by our units. You won't see us turn up in a tactical unit at a noise complaint, house alarm or welfare check. 

 

Entirely off-topic but I felt the need to clarify this.

OwlGaming reunion? They need to limit the disproportionate responses big time.

3 hours ago, LoneRider said:

This doesn't seem like a worthy addition in my opinion, and you know why? People can just decide to stop committing violent crimes altogether to avoid losing their characters, because at the end of the day it is just a game and people come here to relax after work or school. Criminal roleplay shouldn't be punished. 

Does anyone remember OwlGaming on MTA? Their strictness when it came to roleplay, especially criminal roleplay, killed the server(along with many things, like instant bans and not utilizing ajails etc, however that's not the point).

It's funny when I see someone saying "Oh, so what if you lose a character with many hours? Just start another, lulz". Well, not everyone has 10 hours everyday to dedicate to a video game, and we should keep in mind that a sizable portion of the playerbase consists of such players. I just don't want this server to go down OwlGaming's route, that's all.
 

Amen. There's a good number of people on RP servers with no lives who substitute these games for a life, almost entirely. These players are usually the most vocal, in-depth and attached and so admins/devs listen to them the most. So they make things increasingly more 'realistic' for these players at the expense of fun, of opportunity to roleplay freely, without spending excessive amounts of time. A considerable number of relatively quiet players fit the latter camp, and they make up a large bulk of pedestrian and petty criminal-type characters. When Owl was dying there was a shit Government ruling over nobody except Russian Mafia #2, Watts Rider Reborn, and whatever admin owned IGS.

 

[Omnia]

Just now, arrdef said:

Opposition to this update seems to be based on the false notion that jail is an OOC punishment that takes away fun.

 

Characters in prison enrich criminal roleplay because prison is a big thing in the criminal world IRL (who would have thought). It's not harder to roleplay in jail than anywhere else, and your character can still interact with the world at-large from jail; it's not a gulag, you have visits and phone calls, mails, etc. You can still murder people, deal and do drugs, and do organized crime while incarcerated. It's simply a new scenery for your character.

 

This update is needed to encourage criminal roleplay that can portray the most basic and obvious consequences to criminal ways of life. Long term jail is a source of character development in that regard.

Most are angry that if you rack up misdemeanours and hit the 30 mark you can get a CK

[Mitch]

On 6/2/2020 at 7:51 PM, Notbond said:

You will now accrue a number of points for the felonies only

It should be fairly obvious that its for Felonies only, I'm assuming the other points are by mistake? @Brett

[arrdef]

Just now, Omnia said:

Most are angry that if you rack up misdemeanours and hit the 30 mark you can get a CK

Good thing it's not an automatic "CK if you get 30 points" system then.

Edited June 4, 2020 by arrdef

[Brett]

2 hours ago, SugarDavis said:

I just arrested someone in game 2 days ago for 2 misdemeanors and the penal code said 3 points. 

No misdemeanor should have a point value assigned. If this is indeed true, please pm me the charge it's on as that is incorrect. 

 

EDIT: I just ran through the Penal Code again and I can say this is false. There is no points on any misdemeanor charge, so you have messed up somewhere.

 

  

9 minutes ago, Omnia said:

Most are angry that if you rack up misdemeanours and hit the 30 mark you can get a CK

And this is part of my issue. Misdemeanors are not on the point system. It's ONLY felonies. 

 

  

6 hours ago, Tseard said:

The main reason why I see this being implemented is because of the people who fail to roleplay their criminal record, I quote Brett down below:

 

''To avoid people treating felonies like nothing, and going around with 10 of them on their record to just continuously harass LEO's and civilians and act like they're the most hardest people on the server.''

 

Is this not something that should be handled by the individual himself? If people fail to properly roleplay and constantly harass LEO's, should it not be up to the administrators to step in? 

 

People who will eventually rack up to the 30 points and will either get life, a CK or life with parole, will eventually find another way to get their pleasure. They can make another character or namechange and start off new. 

 

We won't be able to mimic this to real-life, we will never have people who have only a handful of charges or a clean record and I have never really been bothered by it. People who constantly evade or shoot for little reason should be reported. 

 

Nevertheless, I'll try the system out like I do with all the changes.

If you are going to quote me on something, please actually quote the full thing. The full response was this:

 

"To avoid people treating felonies like nothing, and going around with 10 of them on their record to just continuously harass LEO's and civilians and act like they're the most hardest people on the server. It's a way of implementing fear, and ensuring that there is some true consequence at some point for major items. This isn't applying to like Assault, or Criminal Threats, or low level stuff. It only applies to felonies." 

 

Only the really up there crimes are attached to this system. It's not easy psychologically or otherwise on a person to actually attempt to murder someone, or ruthlessly beat them with a blunt object, or something like that. And those are the crimes this covers. You wanna get into numerous fights on the street, that's a misdemeanor. You want to criminally threaten people? That's a misdemeanor. There's a ton of charges that are a Misdemeanor or below that is not related to this system. The ONLY people who will end up getting this are people who are habitually committed the worst crimes. I know this part wasn't too much what you were on, but it is worth pointing out. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Brett

[Kenshi]

13 hours ago, Pingu03 said:

I see where you are coming from but surely if you have put in 200/300 hours on a character, worked your way into a gang, get guns, drugs, etc. And then you get sentenced to death or life imprisonment. 

 

Welcome to life.

[Syrike]

13 hours ago, Five-oh said:

 

don't you think there's a great difference between coming to terms with the end of your character and settling on a new one, when you are ready to do so, as opposed to others telling you, that your character is done or unrealistic? to me, this whole system looks like a similar concept that was once utilized to de-script entire factions, albeit on an individual level. it just seems driven by a misguided ooc agenda of fighting off crime, when in reality it should be promoted (at least imo). 

 

and for the most part, i just don't see the need to increase punishment on players that dedicate their time to roleplaying career criminals. they already get mandatory, hefty fines and are confined to jail roleplay for (imo) mindbogglingly long terms. adding to that, that being a criminal isn't even lucrative or remotely easy money, compared to the legal job opportunities and scripted jobs - i'm starting to ask myself why anyone would commit to the illegal side.

 

instead of this point system, i'd rather continue as is, let career criminal roleplayers be and deal with extremely unrealistic portrayals via admin intervention.

 

also, everyone in favor of this implementation is touting more realism, which sure enough, it is more realistic, but I have serious doubts that those people are in touch with the majority of players, who engage(d) in illegal roleplay, and probably don't frequent these type of discussions as much. everyone with the "don't do the crime, if you can't do the time" mentality, you guys gotta get past that 10 y/o GTA roleplay argument - or at the very least, lose some of that bias directed at illegal roleplayers and apply your high standard to every player across the board. might as well enforce roleplaying injuries for longer duration hospital stays, implement 1-month suspensions for law enforcement roleplayers who were involved in a shooting and so forth. 

 

 

 

Nothing about this is to fight off crime, the only thing this will affect is whether or not someone will commit to that sixth shooting in the same area. Think a crime is a little bit too risky to do right at this moment? Don't do it. Nothing about this kills crime, it just makes people do it smarter. There are so many factions that make a lot of money that are also illegal, they also do not draw attention from law enforcement. I would also like to point out that nearly all the responses to this thread are being made by LEO roleplayers, specifically from one faction with very little coming in from illegal RPers. So I am failing to see the huge impact as the people this affects most are not the ones complaining about it.

[Copacetic]

Just now, resick said:

so when are we going back to the old system

We're not. At least not for a while. 

[Copacetic]

Just now, resick said:

well the feedback that this is getting says otherwise 

Well unfortunately, that's not how this works. Many individuals put dozens of hours or more into this system. Illegal faction leaders, legal faction leaders, FM and Server Management all had input into this system and I am currently reaching out to more illegal faction leaders to further explain this system and get even more input from their side of the RP. You may not like it and others may not like it but you will have to live with it until this is found to have a negative impact on the server or until admins make the call to end it. It's been up for two days now and we've had no issues so uh, I'm not sure what the problem is. 

[Copacetic]

Just now, resick said:

I could agree with what you're saying, but at the end it comes down to what the community thinks. afaik updates are meant to improve everyone's gameplay and not only a certain group of people. Also that negative impact that this could have on the server is already on the rise even though it's been only one or two days since this was implemented.

Would you elaborate on the negative impact you see? The only negativity I see is coming from people who refuse to give this system a chance.