Force a % of prison sentence to be IC [G]

[Tseard]

2 hours ago, Vash Baldeus said:

I'll quote myself:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

My issue according to your comment is, not enough people to manage the separation of different levels of in-mates? as @Tennplugg said that should be  a thing, you can not put MEN & WOMEN in same blocks, this ain't Co-ED Prison. You claim it's HEAVY RP server? They expect us to Roleplay heavily? Then they should properly staff the Prison with Correctional Officers, and if they will Force regular players to Roleplay some of their sentence, they should FORCE also the Correctional Officers to be on to manage those in-mates. Because being locked inside the cell on your own, without any Officers around what is the point of being online if you can't even interact with other in-mates/officers if you are locked and can not get out to the hall of the block to interact with others. Role-playing Alone? Doubt anyone wants to do that.

 

If the prison was ALIVE, so to speak. Trust me people would be role-playing in there and serving some part of their sentencing. But most of the time it is not, because honestly Prison Roleplay is not as fun as you think, not when you meet people who AFK or there are not enough online or not at all. Why would someone be online during their sentence remain locked in their cell ALONE, without any interaction with anyone else (in-mates/officers), no one will do it. You can no demand people serve their time In-game and role-play that on the pretense of HEAVY RP while not having people to Staff the prison even, what is the point of LSSD having control over that place if they prefer to Patrol the City without staffing anyone to take a shift at the prison?

 

You can not claim HEAVY RP, while there is no one to Roleplay with inside (Staff / In-mates) who are there to do the same as you. Sounds like Double Standards, to me. Explain to me how you can Roleplay ALONE without any interaction or anyone to see you do those things? I am not against people serving their time, but for that to happen, the environment has to be ALIVE, meaning other people there as well, that includes not only in-mates, that includes Officers, that includes separating Minors, Men, Women into different blocks, along with security level separation, that includes chow hall, that includes GDU education classes with a teacher and in-mates who want to accomplish their studies, that includes church (Jewish, Muslim, Christian), that includes more than you think, also commissary store the inmates can go and buy things. There's a whole environment and life style in prison you forget about, you want people to do it, you need to provide the proper environment. More over after each Server restart all the cells are locked, in all honestly by default all the cells should be unlocked unless an officer locked it, not the other way around.

 

Meaning you'll need to have Department of Corrections established, given it the authority over the Prison and County Jail (also, what is the purpose of the prison if there's country jail if there's a prison) a bit redundant if LSPD sends people into Country Jail for lets say Homicide, what is the use of the Prison in that case then? You want something without providing proper arguments as to how accomplish the goal of encouraging people to Roleplay inside Prison except "HEAVY RP". I'd gladly create a character who's serving life in there if there will be Staff and other In-mates around, with proper separation of Minors, Men, Women, according to security levels, having Death row and all the other things I've mentioned above. Alas I doubt that will happen.

 

When you force a human to do something, he/she will rebel against it, if you give a choice they will choose.

 

P.S.

If you want to get a glimpse on Prison life, there are a couple of shows you can check out.

 

• AfterPrisonShow
• HardTime

 

Your reply astonishes me. 

 

There are not enough people to man the jail (yes it is a jail, not a prison) and to get separate cell blocks for different groups. If we did that, that would mean that the current roleplay in the jail, would suffer even more because the attention would need to be divided between the groupings. Our deputies (they are not correctional officers) are manning the jail whenever they are in-game and there are inmates ingame. It's not as easy as you say to simply pull a bunch of people together and allow them to help out in the jail. We've actively hired for new deputies and they will be trained soon. 

 

Many people have been in jail and roleplayed together, there have been many interactions between inmates themselves and the inmates and deputies. What you are saying about the LSSD preferring to patrol the city is just a dumb argument that holds no weight whatsoever. Deputies who are granted patrol rights are still forced to go to jail whenever inmates are around. If someone is on duty, and there are no inmates online, then they can go on patrol (if they have the privilege to do so.)

 

It's also a county jail, not a country jail. 

 

My advice to you is to actually do some research on the topics that are available for the public regarding the jail, the LSSD and their responsibilities before you start rambling on a public forum with little to no facts.

[Declan]

here's a better source @Vash Baldeus

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Declan

[Vash Baldeus]

35 minutes ago, Tseard said:

 

Your reply astonishes me. 

 

There are not enough people to man the jail (yes it is a jail, not a prison) and to get separate cell blocks for different groups. If we did that, that would mean that the current roleplay in the jail, would suffer even more because the attention would need to be divided between the groupings. Our deputies (they are not correctional officers) are manning the jail whenever they are in-game and there are inmates ingame. It's not as easy as you say to simply pull a bunch of people together and allow them to help out in the jail. We've actively hired for new deputies and they will be trained soon. 

 

Many people have been in jail and roleplayed together, there have been many interactions between inmates themselves and the inmates and deputies. What you are saying about the LSSD preferring to patrol the city is just a dumb argument that holds no weight whatsoever. Deputies who are granted patrol rights are still forced to go to jail whenever inmates are around. If someone is on duty, and there are no inmates online, then they can go on patrol (if they have the privilege to do so.)

 

It's also a county jail, not a country jail. 

 

My advice to you is to actually do some research on the topics that are available for the public regarding the jail, the LSSD and their responsibilities before you start rambling on a public forum with little to no facts.

Yea', at the very least, separate Minors from Adults. Don't try to do double standards claiming it's Heavy Roleplay yet not adhering to keeping realism of putting everyone in same block.

 

P.S.

 

Deputies are NOT Correctional Officers.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Vash Baldeus

[Vash Baldeus]

10 minutes ago, Declan said:

here's a better source @Vash Baldeus

 

Thank you, I'll have  a look.

[Tennplugg]

5 hours ago, Vash Baldeus said:

Yea', at the very least, separate Minors from Adults. Don't try to do double standards claiming it's Heavy Roleplay yet not adhering to keeping realism of putting everyone in same block.

 

P.S.

 

Deputies are NOT Correctional Officers.

Can you not read? I’m not trying to bash you or anything. But we’ve literally mentioned several times. There’s not enough deputies to man two cell blocks. If they were to separate cells, then one of the blocks would not have any deputies at all. Which creates A LOT of issues. 

Thank you. 
 

EDIT: The system we currently got works perfect. But people cannot accept that stuff they do have consequences such as jail time. 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Tennplugg

[Tennplugg]

8 hours ago, Vash Baldeus said:

the prison was ALIVE, so to speak. Trust me people would be role-playing in there and serving some part of their sentencing. But most of the time it is not, because honestly Prison Roleplay is not as fun as you think, not when you meet people who AFK or there are not enough online or not at all. Why would someone be online during their sentence remain locked in their cell ALONE, without any interaction with anyone else (in-mates/officers), no one will do it. You can no demand people serve their time In-game and role-play that on the pretense of HEAVY RP while not having people to Staff the prison even, what is the point of LSSD having control over that place if they prefer to Patrol the City without staffing anyone to take a shift at the prison?

The jail IS alive. Just because YOU haven’t seen someone does not mean that the Jail is dead. And I RP in jail. I find it fantastic. As I’ve said earlier towards the rest of your arguments. If you cannot do the time , then don’t do the crime. 
 

I’ve not seen a single LSSD officer prefer patrol over jail, but whatever you believe man 

[np]

9 hours ago, El Ghetto Man said:

Too many people such as those from greenlit street gangs, people with sexual charges and other players just log off to avoid confrontation while in prison. It needs to stop, and this suggestion is the way it can be stopped.

As much as it may surprise you, sex offenders are one of the most segregated and protected demographics in prisons and for good reason. If you saw a sex offender, you would most likely either have a violent confrontation with them or at the very least create conflict with them. Street gangs who are in opposition to most prison gangs are also protected in the same way, they are segregated from the general population. You can look at the Fresno Bulldogs or other gangs with the same relation to the two dominating Hispanic prison gangs (i.e. The Mexican Mafia and Nuestra Familia).

 

Females and juveniles shouldn't even be able to see adult male prisoners in the same cell block because that would be a HUGE safety concern, especially for females. Do you really think that a violent gang of people who are in jail for murder, theft, and assault would control themselves if and when they saw a female prisoner? God no. Female inmates would have an astronomically high chance of ending up pregnant or raped. It would be absolute chaos and a violation of someone's 8th Amendment rights. The prison would either immediately be sued and forced to change their rules or just shut down.

 

What this topic is suggesting is for forced interaction to take place between individuals where it would make next to zero sense for it to take place. Additionally, it would mean a certain character kill for someone who were of this opposing gang demographic (i.e. the greenlit gangs that you mentioned), making it both an IC and OOC punishment to those who are arrested IC. When you have a prison where all ages and genders are forced to interact with each other on a daily basis, it makes the roleplay in the prison highly questionable, if not immersion breaking.

[Garras Up]

3 hours ago, qcumber said:

As much as it may surprise you, sex offenders are one of the most segregated and protected demographics in prisons and for good reason. If you saw a sex offender, you would most likely either have a violent confrontation with them or at the very least create conflict with them. Street gangs who are in opposition to most prison gangs are also protected in the same way, they are segregated from the general population. You can look at the Fresno Bulldogs or other gangs with the same relation to the two dominating Hispanic prison gangs (i.e. The Mexican Mafia and Nuestra Familia).

 

Females and juveniles shouldn't even be able to see adult male prisoners in the same cell block because that would be a HUGE safety concern, especially for females. Do you really think that a violent gang of people who are in jail for murder, theft, and assault would control themselves if and when they saw a female prisoner? God no. Female inmates would have an astronomically high chance of ending up pregnant or raped. It would be absolute chaos and a violation of someone's 8th Amendment rights. The prison would either immediately be sued and forced to change their rules or just shut down.

 

What this topic is suggesting is for forced interaction to take place between individuals where it would make next to zero sense for it to take place. Additionally, it would mean a certain character kill for someone who were of this opposing gang demographic (i.e. the greenlit gangs that you mentioned), making it both an IC and OOC punishment to those who are arrested IC. When you have a prison where all ages and genders are forced to interact with each other on a daily basis, it makes the roleplay in the prison highly questionable, if not immersion breaking.

That should be dealt with IC. You can't just give these people permission to /q and hide from any confrontation and/or repurcussions for their actions simply because them being there is unrealistic. Things happen in the real world, people end up in the same cellblock. People should have to roleplay it.

 

Oh, and Sex offenders aren't as protected in jail as you like to think. There's been numerous cases of guards letting people into the same cells as sex offenders, simply because of how immensely hated they are.

 

None of that can happen here though, because if you're a sex offenders or a greenlit gang member all you have to do is log off as soon as you see names associated with a prison gang in there.

 

And why would expecting people to roleplay in jail on a roleplay server be an ooc punishment? That makes zero sense whatsoever. If you don't want to be cked for being a sex offenders or being from a greenlit gang and you consider any confrontation for your IC mistakes to be an ooc punishment, don't join a gang or rape people in the first place.

Edited February 9, 2020 by El Ghetto Man

[Rascal Doporto]

I don't have much more to add after my previous post and what other people have already said but I'm not entirely sure where people are coming from when they say that male and female or minors can't be separated when that's in fact not the truth. I'm going to assume that these people have only heard this and have not even bothered to look into it or see for themselves. Segregation is a real thing and it can happen in game, people are just too lazy to find out and would rather cry about it. Is it a thing that happens automatically? No. Should it be something that happens automatically? Maybe.

 

For the no argument people shouldn't automatically assume that just because they have a certain charge or they belong to a certain gang that they're going to be stashed away so they can do their time in peace and have no struggles. It is up to those people to specify that they want to be segregated from general population which in most cases in considered going into protective custody, jails do not start housing one or two people in new pods just because their gang is the minority and it'll cause issues. Lets also not forget that in some jails and prisons that admitting you're from a gang during processing will earn you what they call points/strikes and ultimately see you spending a lot of your time in the SHU.

 

The maybe argument is aimed towards minors and females who enter the jail. Some of these people don't want to be separated from the rest of the jail. Why? Because they want to come in and roleplay and enjoy the prison environment, they don't want to sit in a pod which is empty and where they get no interaction with others unless someone of their age group or gender is also in there. In cases like this most of the time, and this is aimed toward female inmates, they are ignored and aren't taken notice of by the male inmates. It's a work around that's been happening as early as 2013 on other roleplay platforms and aside from irritating the female inmates who want to try and roleplay with male inmates it has worked fine. In cases as minors coming into the system then it is what it is. You can't expect a 3rd cell block to be put in and make the LSSD stretch their resources even further because one or two people can't be in the same pod as others. Imo minors who are in the jail can be classed as awaiting trial as an adult or something along those lines.

 

As for proof that segregation is possible and is happening here's a screenshot of the current cell blocks, if you roleplay in jail you should already be aware of this, if you don't then here you go. Sign up to the LSSD forums and go through the process of getting the inmate role and you'll see there's a lot more happening behind closed doors.

 

 

All of the black inmates moving into block 2 makes little sense to me but it is what it is. If these people and the LSSD would be willing to I'm certain that block 2 could be formed into the female block. These groups will still meet on the yard, however. You can't offer people every possible work around that would be fine from an IC and OOC perspective and then still ask "how high?" when they tell you to jump.

[Caracosa]

Obviously total realism is impossible, but for anyone who is curious:

"Where Gangs are housed in LA County Jail"

Quote

 South Siders:
• TTCF (All of Tower Two) (Security Levels 8-9)
• NCCF (Module 800 & ½ Module 700)
• EAST (6 Dorms) (Also “Residents”: IMs that live in gang neighborhoods)
• PDC-South (S/S, Residents, Piasa (Pie-sas) – in Mary & King Compounds)
 

• Nortenos (K-10): MCJ 1750 Hi-Power
• Crips & Bloods: Integrated into General Population (GP)
• Prison Gang Members (K-10): MCJ 1750 Hi-power
• White Power: Integrated into General Population (GP)
• Asian Gang Members: Integrated into General Population (GP)
• Green Lighters (MCJ 2300)
 

• PDC-S (Levels 1-7) Basically Inmate Workers & School (Im’s separated by race)
• PDC-N: General Population (All)
• MCJ: General Population (Except 1750)
• NCCF: General Pop (Modules 600 & ½ of Module 700)
• PDC-E: General Population (1/2 Facility)
• CRDF: Females

Source: Deputy John Williams, "Gangs 101", an internal presentation by the Custody Training Unit of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, 2010.

Acronyms weren't explained, but here are a few guesses:

TTCF: Twin Towers Correctional Facility
NCCF: North County Correctional Facility
PDC: Pitchess Detention Center
MCJ: Men's Central Jail
CRDF: Century Regional Detention Facility (all female facility)

Greg Hill & Associates provides another perspective on sorting/segregation. They are criminal defense lawyers in Los Angeles County, who obviously provide services in Spanish too:
https://www.greghillassociates.com/i-visited-someone-in-jail-what-do-the-shirt-colors-mean.html

That's a POV from County Sheriffs and some defense lawyers. For a more a more inmate-oriented POV on the relationship between jail/prison segregation and street culture, I suggest the work of Patrick Aguado-Lopez, especially "Stick Together and Come Back Home: Racial Sorting and the Spillover of Carceral Identity". He looks at how the jail system actually changes the dynamics on the streets, for both the established gangs and the break-away/greenlight gangs, reinforcing identity/culture/loyalty based on race/geography/neighbourhood.