Roleplay Isolation Discussion

[Invictus]

the 48h investigative hold is useless and not needed at all. the only real investigation done is testing the player's patience to stare at 4 walls within 48 hours. 99% of the time there's no roleplay, no investigation. i'd understand it if cops would rp pressuring you or something, yknow something to pass that time, but nope it's just you and your shadow in a cell. 

 

as for prison/jail stuff, i think its fine the way it is.

[AM]

As a det, I've only really used a 48 hour hold once; in which a suspect had the chance to possibly get rid of a murder weapon, and as such, we needed a pause to effectively raid his place to grab it, analyse it, and make sure that he wasn't able to communicate with his associates. People might think 48 hours is long, and frankly, it kinda is - but that's by virtue of the inherently long, dragging bureaucracy that comes with the vast bulk of investigative RP.

 

If I wanna file a warrant, I can pound it out in thirty minutes flat. Okay, then I gotta get it approved. That's a pager if it's an 'emergent situation', and can take up to a day to get approved. Alright, now I need to execute it. That's probably anywhere from 8-24 hours of notice to organize a warrant execution team so everyone has notice. Then, you have to /actually/ execute the warrant, file for whatever analysis you need, speak with whatever admins you have to in cases of requesting geolocation data or account details in regards to ESWs, so on, so forth.

 

Executing a warrant can easily stretch into a multi-day process, let alone when you start touching on edge cases where you have to begin communicating with LFM for evidence; at which point, it can easily drag into a week, or more, on casefiles that typically end up stretching out into months long affairs.

 

SD recently has implemented a policy, at least at SEN, of having minor misdemanour charges result in being jailed at the station, as opposed to being shuttled up to SADC. It only applies if the charge is below a specific time, and it requires a deputy to remain with the suspect at all times to provide them with roleplay as opposed to effectively being left captive in the middle of the drunk tank with fuck all to do.

 

48 hour holds are inherently a shitty tool, but a tool that exists for a reason. Implementing more guidelines around communication with the suspect'd work, and would honestly just solve the vast majority of issues people have with it.

 

 

 

 

[Viscaria]

50 minutes ago, AM said:

As a det, I've only really used a 48 hour hold once; in which a suspect had the chance to possibly get rid of a murder weapon, and as such, we needed a pause to effectively raid his place to grab it, analyse it, and make sure that he wasn't able to communicate with his associates. People might think 48 hours is long, and frankly, it kinda is - but that's by virtue of the inherently long, dragging bureaucracy that comes with the vast bulk of investigative RP.

 

If I wanna file a warrant, I can pound it out in thirty minutes flat. Okay, then I gotta get it approved. That's a pager if it's an 'emergent situation', and can take up to a day to get approved. Alright, now I need to execute it. That's probably anywhere from 8-24 hours of notice to organize a warrant execution team so everyone has notice. Then, you have to /actually/ execute the warrant, file for whatever analysis you need, speak with whatever admins you have to in cases of requesting geolocation data or account details in regards to ESWs, so on, so forth.

 

Executing a warrant can easily stretch into a multi-day process, let alone when you start touching on edge cases where you have to begin communicating with LFM for evidence; at which point, it can easily drag into a week, or more, on casefiles that typically end up stretching out into months long affairs.

 

SD recently has implemented a policy, at least at SEN, of having minor misdemanour charges result in being jailed at the station, as opposed to being shuttled up to SADC. It only applies if the charge is below a specific time, and it requires a deputy to remain with the suspect at all times to provide them with roleplay as opposed to effectively being left captive in the middle of the drunk tank with fuck all to do.

 

48 hour holds are inherently a shitty tool, but a tool that exists for a reason. Implementing more guidelines around communication with the suspect'd work, and would honestly just solve the vast majority of issues people have with it.

 

 

 

 

Great input. As a detective are there any guidelines around communication with the suspect that you would like to see? Or perhaps something from the suspects themselves as measures of increasing roleplay opportunities.

[Kari]

9 hours ago, Viscaria said:

I like your suggestion to make the 48 hours count towards time served, it would give people some peace of mind knowing that the hold is serving them in some capacity rather than it just taking their character completely offline with no purpose on their side of things. When I called it "pointless" I did not mean in regards to the investigative side, I mean in regards to the other side as they have quite literally no reason to log in and play on said character unless as mentioned, something is arranged on Discord with the detectives, poor wording from my side.
 

This is referring to playing on an alt. Yes it definitely is a solid alternative for those who do enjoy alts, not all people do however and I can speak from experience that if a main character in a faction is jailed for an extended time (this is usually long court cases) people will just simply get approved for an alt in the same faction a lot of times, or sometimes people play an alt in other factions, its definitely a good solution but its not a solution for everyone. The idea behind this discussion is to talk about the isolation and if we can find any alternative solutions that will aid in this only occurring when absolutely necessary, as well as finding a potential solution that isn't putting a character in a locked box for the duration without the compromise of investigative roleplay.

The difficult truth of the matter is that any half measures that deduct from the nature of a 48 hour hold; being entire isolation, basically makes them pointless. You can't half-measure a thing that only works in a whole-meausre, unfortunately. 

The ONLY solution I can see for this is a total overhaul (again) of the jail system, featuring Custody Services in both the LSSD and LSPD, and force any criminals held to be held in one of the LSPD or LSSD's holding facilities; which would be located within their respective stations. This is a monumental undertaking to provide the rare application of 48 hour holds with RP, and would require multiple restructures within factions - addition of more roles, mapping, etc. I don't see this as feasible in any form, as I don't know why someone would sign up to be a station corrections officer instead of a state one, with a whole prison. 

I think the only thing that can be done is including the 48 hours in their sentence. I don't think anyone has provided a single solution otherwise that doesn't remove the needed aspect of the 48 hour hold; total isolation with an inability to contact anyone else besides a lawyer when being questioned. Prison would, unless entirely segregated, allow talking to other inmates who make get out earlier than the 48 hour hold, and at that point, they're just isolated in another spot. 

[Kenshi]

@Viscaria

The consequences of your characters action should not be mitigated just because it inconveniences you OOCLY. There's other games that meet that goal. But for an RP server that is literally meant to be as realistic as possible, you can't have it so that you can skate through murder & mayhem without suffering the consequences if you fail. Wether that's busted, or killed. 

 

God forbid your character undergoes any sort of character development because they got their ass handed to them, or things didn't go their way.. 

Where is the appeal in having a character that is 100% succesfull all day, every day, at all times. Never faces any adversary, always gets what they want. And can get away with anything without any fear of failure or repercussions?

 

Inconveniences are part of the story. They give meaning. If you pull off a succesfull evade from police during a chase, it'll have that more meaning knowing if they DID bust your ass, you'd be spending a few days in jail. 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Kenshi

[munnezza]

2 minutes ago, Kenshi said:

@Viscaria

The consequences of your characters action should not be mitigated just because it inconveniences you OOCLY. There's other games that meet that goal. But for an RP server that is literally meant to be as realistic as possible, you can't have it so that you can skate through murder & mayhem without suffering the consequences if you fail. Wether that's busted, or killed. 

 

God forbid your character undergoes any sort of character development because they got their ass handed to them, or things didn't go their way.. 

Where is the appeal in having a character that is 100% succesfull all day, every day, at all times. Never faces any adversary, always gets what they want. And can get away with anything without any fear of failure or repercussions?

 

Inconveniences are part of the story. They give meaning. If you pull off a succesfull evade from police during a chase, it'll have that more meaning knowing if they DID bust your ass, you'd be spending a few days in jail. 

 

There is no development opportunity in a 48h ajail. 

[Viscaria]

2 hours ago, Kenshi said:

@Viscaria

The consequences of your characters action should not be mitigated just because it inconveniences you OOCLY. There's other games that meet that goal. But for an RP server that is literally meant to be as realistic as possible, you can't have it so that you can skate through murder & mayhem without suffering the consequences if you fail. Wether that's busted, or killed. 

 

God forbid your character undergoes any sort of character development because they got their ass handed to them, or things didn't go their way.. 

Where is the appeal in having a character that is 100% succesfull all day, every day, at all times. Never faces any adversary, always gets what they want. And can get away with anything without any fear of failure or repercussions?

 

Inconveniences are part of the story. They give meaning. If you pull off a succesfull evade from police during a chase, it'll have that more meaning knowing if they DID bust your ass, you'd be spending a few days in jail. 

 

The discussion here is not to reduce any consequences of a characters actions nor to have them mitigated, it is a discussion to discuss if there are other options other than placing a character into a point of stasis. If a potential solution was to have more LEO's interact with suspects, that would aid in the topic at discussion, hope that helps.

[Kenshi]

39 minutes ago, Viscaria said:

The discussion here is not to reduce any consequences of a characters actions nor to have them mitigated, it is a discussion to discuss if there are other options other than placing a character into a point of stasis. If a potential solution was to have more LEO's interact with suspects, that would aid in the topic at discussion, hope that helps.

Could always have the 48 hour hold take place in prison instead of a police station. Doesn't make much sense realism wise, but the prison is big enough it can house a temporary hold section. We put people in prison for less than 2 days that the investigative hold takes. That way there might be more possibility for roleplay. Interaction with CO's. The hold is secure enough. If the suspect contacts anyone it'll have to be through a jail phone which is tapped. Through lettering which is checked, or through a snuck in phone, which got there through means of RP. 

 

We send literally everything else up to prison anyway. Might aswell go all the way. 

 

Possible solution?

Edited November 8, 2023 by Kenshi

[Viscaria]

29 minutes ago, Kenshi said:

Could always have the 48 hour hold take place in prison instead of a police station. Doesn't make much sense realism wise, but the prison is big enough it can house a temporary hold section. We put people in prison for less than 2 days that the investigative hold takes. That way there might be more possibility for roleplay. Interaction with CO's. The hold is secure enough. If the suspect contacts anyone it'll have to be through a jail phone which is tapped. Through lettering which is checked, or through a snuck in phone, which got there through means of RP. 

 

We send literally everything else up to prison anyway. Might aswell go all the way. 

 

Possible solution?

The issue with this is that it could potentially ruin detectives investigative roleplay as we previously discussed, giving access to phones and other means of contact could potentially result in tip offs and the likes. I do however think that this may be the solution in some sense, even if they are in a full hold there it gives the possibility of more roleplay with CO's and any detectives. The solution to many of these issues may arise if we throw enough at the new prison, in turn it could also spark more interest in joining the new faction.

[Kari]

6 hours ago, Grover The Good III said:

 

An IC equivalent of the LAPD Security Services Division, which would've taken care of station jail duties among other things, took 40 minutes to be planned under exigent circumstances, without requiring any restructure of the faction whatsoever aside of a new faction rank and a new forum role. The plan wasn't even taken into consideration for what you may call management issues, but it goes to show that there's nothing monumental about integrating a make-believe component into a larger make-believe law enforcement organization and, instead, in many cases is the off-scale grandiose delusions some faction leaderships have that ruin the roleplay.

 

As for why someone would roleplay a custody assistant instead of a State corrections officer, there's plenty of reason. Sticking to purely in-character grounds, characters under 21 cannot become corrections officers, whereas they can be custody assistants, giving teenaged characters and college students a chance to roleplay a first step towards a career in law enforcement without breaking immersion. But if you want OOC grounds, some people just don't enjoy the run-and-gun of frontline law enforcement nor the unbreakable cycle of violence that is a constant of prison roleplay, preferring instead a more laidback role where they can just hang out with the occasional "tourist" who is spending the night in jail.

 

And of course, there is also reason to believe that the server's 5,000 rent-a-cops that roam Los Santos in their customized modded uniforms using their Guard Cards to kill Sheriff's detectives and/or shoot at teenagers in the back for the unforgivable crime of crossing an empty dealership lot on their bike would better serve in an unarmed role such as custody assistants, a rank which can serve (and served) as a training ground for future law enforcement leaders (of the future and of the past). This would provide those who are arrested in station jails (ideally, all those who committed a misdemeanor and investigative holds) to have someone to roleplay with most of the times.

 

Of course this demands that the players put in charge of such jail details are creative roleplayers, not the LEO LARPers that make up the majority of law enforcement factions these days, for the jail/prison setting is particularly challenging and imagination is required tenfold since there are no scripts to serve as smoke and mirrors and hide your inability to make up interesting scenarios in those circumstances. Unfortunately, their kind is not as plentiful as it once was around these parts.

 

The problem is not the system. The problem is, as in most cases, the people.
 

I mean hey, fair enough, if this is a thing deemed reasonable, I'm all for adding another thing to the faction. It only serves to add another avenue to get players interested and would be generally RP heavy, as opposed to the normal faction duties that can feel a bit race n' chase-y sometimes. I definitely over-estimated the difficulty!

I think interest would still be limited - or interaction in general, but, SD have recently started allowing certain misdemeanours to be served out at the station, and this would be a good way for PD to follow suit. Maybe this could be feasible, after all.