Roleplay Isolation Discussion

[Martyn]

1 minute ago, Viscaria said:

The topic at hand is roleplay isolation as more often that not it puts characters into a state of stasis in the game environment, very often minor characters are being placed into these as well and for them to hire a lawyer when typically they wouldn't have the funds or knowledge about that wouldn't make a lot of sense from an IC perspective. In an ideal world this would be an IC discussion and it could definitely go that route too, however not everyone has a character that is seated in politics or even one that can bring up the matter to a point of conference either. The claim that this is an IC issue could be said for a number of other things that have occurred, such as LEO helicopter limitations on how long they can hover around a certain location, among many other things.

 

 

Again, sounds like an IC issue to me. The problems you've outlined are problems prevalent in real life as well, it's kind of part of the life. A minor IRL likely doesn't have the funds nor the knowledge of contacting a lawyer either and this is fully taken advantage of by certain law enforcement officers in real life. Said characters don't have to take action themselves in relation to politics and the likes of that, community leaders should pick up on it and do it on their behalf. That's what they're there for, that's what creates roleplay for these specific characters too. 

 

In relation to the helicopter limitation, should've also remained IC. The fact there's far too much admin intervention and rule books the length of the old testament is an entirely different topic which I won't get into here any further. I think the more we stay IC, the more options for roleplay as a community, the more importance for a solid political foundation which in turn increases the immersion of the server and makes things actually feel lively and interactive.

[Viscaria]

2 minutes ago, Martyn said:

 

 

Again, sounds like an IC issue to me. The problems you've outlined are problems prevalent in real life as well, it's kind of part of the life. A minor IRL likely doesn't have the funds nor the knowledge of contacting a lawyer either and this is fully taken advantage of by certain law enforcement officers in real life. Said characters don't have to take action themselves in relation to politics and the likes of that, community leaders should pick up on it and do it on their behalf. That's what they're there for, that's what creates roleplay for these specific characters too. 

 

In relation to the helicopter limitation, should've also remained IC. The fact there's far too much admin intervention and rule books the length of the old testament is an entirely different topic which I won't get into here any further. I think the more we stay IC, the more options for roleplay as a community, the more importance for a solid political foundation which in turn increases the immersion of the server and makes things actually feel lively and interactive.

Your debate seems to be pertaining to the outline of how things are in real life, however if everything were to be as how things are in real life then the server would be nothing but a chaotic bombshell at every corner. Guns are extremely easy to come by in America, everyone and anyone would be able to get their hands on one without much hassle at all, which in turn would mean more than twice the amount of shootings that occur on the server already. It would also mean that any and all Police file cases are thoroughly checked and monitored, as well as much more punishments being handed out for even the simplest of things such as miscommunications over radio protocols. Currently there is no one that really checks over case files besides detectives and judges if there's investigative roleplay and/or a court case. In a real life environment if people were being placed on 48 hour holds unlawfully then it would most certainly be picked up on and handled with an iron hammer, yet there is no current way for this to happen on the server when it comes to the Police as its own entity thoroughly checking over cases and arrests.

The whole "it happens in real life" argument becomes null with certain things in a game environment to ensure a fun server exists.

I did edit my post above to go into more detail;
"To touch on that a little further, this discussion isn't about whether or not a character was placed on 48h hold over nothing, its about if it should be allowed for things such as IC spite and corruption, and potential other alternatives to allow characters to roleplay with anything else but walls. IC laws adjusting could definitely be a potential solution as well."

[Martyn]

1 minute ago, Viscaria said:

Your debate seems to be pertaining to the outline of how things are in real life, however if everything were to be as how things are in real life then the server would be nothing but a chaotic bombshell at every corner. Guns are extremely easy to come by in America, everyone and anyone would be able to get their hands on one without much hassle at all, which in turn would mean more than twice the amount of shootings that occur on the server already. It would also mean that any and all Police file cases are thoroughly checked and monitored, as well as much more punishments being handed out for even the simplest of things such as miscommunications over radio protocols. Currently there is no one that really checks over case files besides detectives and judges if there's investigative roleplay and/or a court case. In a real life environment if people were being placed on 48 hour holds unlawfully then it would most certainly be picked up on and handled with an iron hammer, yet there is no current way for this to happen on the server when it comes to the Police as its own entity thoroughly checking over cases and arrests.

The whole "it happens in real life" argument becomes null with certain things in a game environment to ensure a fun server exists.

I did edit my post above to go into more detail;
"To touch on that a little further, this discussion isn't about whether or not a character was placed on 48h hold over nothing, its about if it should be allowed for things such as IC spite and corruption, and potential other alternatives to allow characters to roleplay with anything else but walls. IC laws adjusting could definitely be a potential solution as well."

 

Extremely arguable, perhaps if guns weren't as hard to obtain on GTA:W people would have LESS shootings and there would be less crime as people know everyone carries a firearm and their life is in immediate danger if they withdraw their own firearm or try to mess with people. This is a debate we're never going to see eye to eye on, its something they've been arguing about in America for decades so you and I are not going to resolve this particular subject.

 

I don't think the "it happens in real life" argument becomes null just to ensure a "fun server". If that's the case give people the ability to join an OOC deathmatch arena when in prison so they can have "fun" while their IC character spends time in jail. I think if you join a "hardcore" roleplay server, you pretty much agree to the hypothetical terms and conditions that come with such an environment. Which means consequences and repercussions for your character that you would also typically encounter in real life. That's the entire reason most people are here and not on some low-tier roleplay server. 

 

There's no other way to go about this, the same argument goes for the female pod. Sure it sucks you have little to nothing to do in there, but it would be extremely selfish of a single player to demand shorter sentences or more leniency being given due to OOC reasons, you'll be ruining the immersion for everyone involved in your arrest. If you get put in investigative hold and you're out in 2hours your char goes up to his homies (or any spectators who witnessed the arrest) just to go "Damn man I just spend a few days in the can!" and then everyone around you is supposed to apply the "suspension of belief" and have their scene ruined due to the fact one solo individual didn't feel the need to apply to the same standards other people do thrive for.

 

There's no winning here, it literally boils down to "If you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime" as shitty as this sounds. Don't roleplay certain things if you can't handle everything that comes with the territory. This is why I personally also do not roleplay certain characters or themes, I know I'm not okay with certain things that comes into play so I avoid it and do myself a huge favor because it allows me to have more fun. 

[Viscaria]

I appreciate your opinion above, allow me to elaborate on some things that have already been discussed. This discussion isn't to make character sentencing less strict, or to get illegal characters off of any hooks with what crimes they have willfully committed, it is to discuss matters of roleplay isolation, that pertaining to a character essentially being put offline with no reason for the player to log in on the character. Is there alternatives we could provide that do not interrupt the investigative side of things while still allowing characters to roleplay with anyone at all? These type of questions are what is being discussed, there is no back and forth between whether its right or wrong to have characters in these environments given that the reasoning is just.

The discussion is basically - Are there improvements that can be made to roleplay isolation environments that is a fair solution to both angles?

[Anders]

It is what it is.

No but like said elsewhere in the thread, ultimately it is an IC thing because if you do crime and get caught, you should be punished for it. 48 hours seems rather excessive on paper but you also need to understand everyone have lives, even the criminal in question. Nobody is going to login for 48 hours to get out of the hold, it'll take like a week or two while the court case and so on goes on. 

 

Some cases takes more then that obviously due to the workload and limited amount of attorneys and DA there is plus waiting for evidence to be sent.

Solution? 

Have the counter run offline maybe if it's a investigative hold, maybe let the leading detective get a warning in the UCP or when they login when someone is about to be released urging them to get their things going.

[Martyn]

4 minutes ago, Viscaria said:

I appreciate your opinion above, allow me to elaborate on some things that have already been discussed. This discussion isn't to make character sentencing less strict, or to get illegal characters off of any hooks with what crimes they have willfully committed, it is to discuss matters of roleplay isolation, that pertaining to a character essentially being put offline with no reason for the player to log in on the character. Is there alternatives we could provide that do not interrupt the investigative side of things while still allowing characters to roleplay with anyone at all? These type of questions are what is being discussed, there is no back and forth between whether its right or wrong to have characters in these environments given that the reasoning is just.

The discussion is basically - Are there improvements that can be made to roleplay isolation environments that is a fair solution to both angles?

 

The entire point of investigative hold or isolation is to you know... Isolate people, ensure they can't interact with the outside world to tip people off and share information. The only people who are allowed to interact with these individuals by default are law enforcement officers and the characters lawyer. Your only solution to ensure people in isolation/investigative hold have someone to roleplay with is by having them roleplay with law enforcement officers. Even roleplaying with other prisoners can disrupt the investigative hold significantly. They can share information with a fellow inmate and they can use their phone privilege to tip people off, etc. I don't really think there's any solution to this due to the nature of what you're asking. 

[Eastside.Shady]

54 minutes ago, Martyn said:

In relation to the helicopter limitation, should've also remained IC. 

No, no they shouldn't. Helicopters are incredibly over powered even with the 100 LEO RPers constantly chiming in with how the IG camera isnt even as powerful as the RL camera. Sure, but IRL a LAPD helicopter doesnt look over an entire neighborhood and see 3 parked cars and 4 people outside. The traffic, foot traffic and just overall visual pollution is insane when compared to the peak 400 players not in interiors SERVER WIDE. It's been shown time and time again how LEO helicopters watch cars for no reason other than the fact that it's the only one on the road, then they see that magical /me above their head and they call in a 3 agency operation over someone doing a line off the dash. I urge you to be on the receiving end of this once and tell me how it feels to be under constant surveillance by an invisible all seeing eye.

 

But back to the point of RP isolation, the main point being made is that clearly investigate holds are IC, the argument of "if you can't do the crime don't do the time" just can't apply because once you're sentenced you CAN roleplay in prison, but investigate holds are just ajails doled out by LEOs. You can call them necessary evils all you want, but you're just putting someone in a holding cell for 2 days, to eventually not even charge them with anything.

 

I've always disliked this air of superiority some LEO rpers have where somehow a 15 day sentence isn't enough to compensate for the 15 min report they have to write up, not even counting the 45 minutes to an hour you tend to spend in the back of a cop car by yourself as the cops/deputies wrap up a scene. Having your RP derailed for 2 weeks isn't a slap on the wrist and we all need to respect each other's time. We're not getting that back.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Eastside.Shady

[Martyn]

4 minutes ago, Eastside.Shady said:

No, no they shouldn't. Helicopters are incredibly over powered even with the 100 LEO RPers constantly chiming in with how the IG camera isnt even as powerful as the RL camera. Sure, but IRL a LAPD helicopter doesnt look over an entire neighborhood and see 3 parked cars and 4 people outside. The traffic, foot traffic and just overall visual pollution is insane when compared to the peak 400 players not in interiors SERVER WIDE. It's been shown time and time again how LEO helicopters watch cars for no reason other than the fact that it's the only one on the road, then they see that magical /me above their head and they call in a 3 agency operation over someone doing a line off the dash. I urge you to be on the receiving end of this once and tell me how it feels to be under constant surveillance by an invisible all seeing eye.

 

But back to the point of RP isolation, the main point being made is that clearly investigate holds are IC, the argument of "if you can't do the crime don't do the time" just can't apply because once you're sentenced you CAN roleplay in prison, but investigate holds are just ajails doled out by LEOs. You can call them necessary evils all you want, but you're just putting someone in a holding cell for 2 days, to eventually not even charge them with anything.

 

I've always disliked this air of superiority some LEO rpers have where somehow a 15 day sentence isn't enough to compensate for the 15 min report they have to write up, not even counting the 45 minutes to an hour you tend to spend in the back of a cop car by yourself as the cops/deputies wrap up a scene. Having your RP derailed for 2 weeks isn't a slap on the wrist and we all need to respect each other's time. We're not getting that back.

 

I never said helicopters weren't overpowered? I just said it should've been kept IC, this could've been done in various ways. Democrats could've complained about saving the environment, not wanting to burn through gasoline and pollute the sky and what not. Locals could've went to politicians about noise complaints, just two examples of the many in character reasons/approaches that could've been taken that would of resulted in the exact same thing. Less usage of helicopters, but instead of admins having to step in this could've all been done naturally. All this OOC shit really takes all the fun out of playing a server like this, nothing happens natural.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Martyn

[Viscaria]

20 minutes ago, Martyn said:

 

The entire point of investigative hold or isolation is to you know... Isolate people, ensure they can't interact with the outside world to tip people off and share information. The only people who are allowed to interact with these individuals by default are law enforcement officers and the characters lawyer. Your only solution to ensure people in isolation/investigative hold have someone to roleplay with is by having them roleplay with law enforcement officers. Even roleplaying with other prisoners can disrupt the investigative hold significantly. They can share information with a fellow inmate and they can use their phone privilege to tip people off, etc. I don't really think there's any solution to this due to the nature of what you're asking. 

Perhaps the solution could be a more productive means for LEO's to roleplay with people on these holds in some way, this is what we're here to discuss as well. If you have any suggestions on that topic feel free to add them.

On another note let's all please keep the topic the main point of discussion, there are other places to discuss other topics!

[Martyn]

1 minute ago, Viscaria said:

Perhaps the solution could be a more productive means for LEO's to roleplay with people on these holds in some way, this is what we're here to discuss as well. If you have any suggestions on that topic feel free to add them.

On another note let's all please keep the topic the main point of discussion, there are other places to discuss other topics!

 

Considering people in investigative hold are completely restricted to interacting with law enforcement officers, the only thing I can think of other than the usual interactions (passing food, water, etc) would be to introduce minigames (that were already promised years ago) such as chess, checkers, uno, you name it. These can then be played with law enforcement officers if they choose to engage with you. Just one of the things I can think of that would make investigative hold a little more fun and interactive. Would also give law enforcement officers some incentive to interact with people in holding a bit more.