Questions re: California in GTA:W

[Ink]

I did some searching on the forums and saw this was brought up before in other threads, but I didn't find any clear answers on the matter.

We know that California laws do not have automatic bearing in San Andreas. We know San Andreas is a state in the USA. We know we use GTA lore as much as possible (car brands, Liberty City, Vice City, etc) That's all we have right now in terms of official lore.

Here are some questions I have which come up in RP every now and then. While none of these are super duper important it seems every person just kind of picks an answer they like at the moment, and I've seen this create multiple IC arguments which are amusing but not really immersive. 
 

1. Is San Andreas a 51st state, or does it replace California?
2. Is San Andreas actually an island as it is portrayed in the game or is it connected to mainland USA? Is there "more" of San Andreas that we're not seeing in our GTA V map?
3. If California exists, does it also have its own Los Angeles or is there a San Andreas sized hole missing in California approximately where Los Angeles would be?
4. Does San Fierro exist in San Andreas even though it's not in our game world, and if so is it part of the island or some unseen landmass in San Andreas? Or is it part of California?
5. For that matter, is Las Venturas still part of San Andreas, or is it in Nevada?
6. Do we roleplay San Andreas, officially, as being larger than it is in-game close to "reality," or are we supposed to RP its size as being consistent with the in-game world? In real life, it takes about an hour and a half to drive from downtown Los Angeles to Bakersfield (Grapeseed) without traffic. In our game world it can take about 2-3 minutes. Is there a happy middle ground we're encouraged to RP where maybe ICly it takes closer to 30 minutes to an hour to get to the edge of the island? 
7. Is Los Santos roleplayed as having a real life population closer to Los Angeles irl, or close to our player count? Are we assuming we live in a city with a massive population, or are we living in a busy smaller city? IRL Los Angeles is composed of like 20+ cities and has a population of close to 4 million people. Our game server has, what, 60,000 registered characters iirc? That's already an impressive population, but it doesn't account for any NPCs like our highschool systems, sewer systems, electrical companies, hospital staff, etc.

 

My goal with this thread is less about speculation and debate about these points, but hopefully about the administration/roleplay quality team/whatever making a "lore" thread answering some of these questions. If necessary, I can remake this as a suggestion thread, but figured this may be more apt a place for it for now.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Ink

[Valkyria]

Remember to keep the thread civil and keep your replies on-topic.

[Garras Up]

I prefer not to RP California's existence. If the state/city has a GTA alternative, I roleplay that city. I RP Miami as Vice City, New York as Liberty City and anywhere else that has a GTA alternative. If a state or city doesn't have a GTA alternative, I call it by its real name. I also prefer to go with what Rockstar themselves said, San Andreas isn't an island, it's merely like that ingame due to limitations. ICly, there's more land just east of the city, along with south of the city in certain areas. California doesn't exist imho, what does exist is Northern San Andreas to the north, Mexico/Baja San Andreas (Baja California) to the south and other states to the east. personally doesn't make sense to me when the real life cities are bought up, it's a huge grey area that I prefer to avoid.

 

As far as the city population goes, I prefer to rp that the city's populated. My faction for example (which is portraying MS-13 as a whole roleplay that we're just 10-15 members of a larger gang, as opposed to acting like we're the only members of that gang in the city. It works better when it comes to roleplaying as you've got more to talk about.

 

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by El Ghetto Man

[arrdef]

San Andreas is a state in the United States, everything in the game points to that (radio stations, signs, etc). With that in mind, I prefer to see it as a state that exists in addition of the other states, not instead of any of them.

 

The notion of randomly disregarding the existence of for example California (especially since events there and in any other states can definitely shape the opinion of our characters etc.) is what I would consider immersion-breaking. I also prefer to mention NY over LC, especially since my character sometimes talks about football (and LC isn't in the Super Bowl).

 

As for population, I think the characters portrayed are just that: The characters portrayed. It makes sense to assume that there are a lot more unseen characters. It's like a in a book; most books only mention a dozen or so characters, but that doesn't imply the absence of a world around them.

 

Regarding geography, I generally prefer to roleplay in a way that keeps my character in one general area, and I dislike the trend of characters who live in Morningwood yet randomly go for a drink at Outpost 13 in Mirror Park. It seems more interesting to roleplay in a way that creates local cultures.

Edited July 4, 2020 by arrdef

[Law]

Replies based on previous discussions that I’ve visited or participated in. It’s also going to be hard to source these since such topics crop up often with no concrete mega thread.

1) San Andreas does not replace California, it’s a fictional state in USA. This way characters who want to roleplay being from California can do so. There’s also the acknowledgment of the San Andreas state not only from USA but the world as you tend to meet characters who’ve ended up here from Russia for example. 

 

2) In this universe, Los Santos and Blaine county are on an island in the state of San Andreas, west coast. Staying consistent to the lore, this state has other cities such as Liberty City which is why many characters I encounter state they’re from there.

 

3) Los Santos doesn’t (and/or shouldn’t) replace Los Angeles the same way Las Venturas shouldn’t replace Las Vegas. It’s in its own state as far as I’m aware.

 

4) Once again, sticking to the consistency, San Fierro would be in the state of San Andreas. But since we’re physically limited to the island of Los Santos and Blaine County, it only makes sense for it to be on a different island.

 

5) As stated above, Los Santos shouldn’t replace Los Angeles, applying same logic to Las Venturas and Las Vegas

6) Larger than it is from what I’ve seen from admins, you should also have a reason to travel there. Same way you should only be a resident of Paleto Bay if you have a job in the nearby area.

7) Los Santos isn’t as developed as Los Angeles but developed enough to say that it should be roleplayed with a large population in mind, which is why even though there’s no one around during your robbery, it’d be unrealistic to rob someone at the Downtown Square where surveillance and passerby’s would be present. 
 

A lot of the lore contradicts reality but that’s the current way I look at our universe. It hasn’t ever caused issues to others who view it differently because it’s not something that affects story telling too much.

[Shaderz]

1: San Andreas is indeed a 51st state. It is /based on/ California, however, it doesn't mean it /is/ California. Being based on implies taking inspiration from something or using particular ideas from something in order to developing something conceptually different. That is the difference between San Andreas and California.

 

2: San Andreas is an island. The state is literally surrounded by water which is what defines an island in the first place. There is more to San Andreas that we can not see in our GTA V map, such as San Fierro, Las Venturas, Red County, Bone County, etc). It's part of the lore.

 

3: California exists in our universe just as it exists in real life. Again, they are two entirely different states. One should replace the other.

 

4: San Fierro exists in our universe and is part of San Andreas. It's an unseen landmass in our map as you said, however, due to game limitations.

 

5: Las Venturas is part of San Andreas. Las Vegas is part of Nevada. Again, just because X is based on Y, doesn't mean X is Y. It's a logic thing.

 

6: This is a grey area. I respect people who roleplay taking hours but I personally roleplay taking five minutes give or take to drive from the city to the county. Taking longer has a powergame-ish side to it. If you roleplay taking hours but only actually drive for five minutes, how can you be sure nothing would happen to you during that time that is otherwise impossible to happen within said five minutes? My opinion here is roleplay what you see, not what you imagine. 

 

7: This is another grey area. I believe it makes sense to passive roleplay the population of an actual city in some cases, but not in some other cases. Things that are not actively roleplayed by players or are not roleplayed at all but are essential to the mundane day to day things are fine to be NPC'ed occasionally (e.g. cargo shippers coming in the city by the docks, teachers in Los Santos schools and college. bank branch managers, etc). However, roleplaying NPC's  noticing you while you're being robbed in a public place does not make sense to me, as the current playerbase is more than enough to tackle down the need for this. 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Shaderz

[HaveADream]

Speaking personally, I don't see a version of this that means that California can exist. Los Santos was based off of Los Angeles, LSPD/LSSD are both based directly on LAPD/LASD, our faction and city culture and subcultures are based off of LA. I understand why people are hesitant about this, but honestly it's better to simulate California as replaced by San Andreas state.

 

If we're sticking to Rockstar lore, California does not exist.

Edited July 4, 2020 by HaveADream

[MickeyO]

San Andreas is clearly a parody of California. Everything from Vespucci to K-Town to Downtown Los Angeles these are actual locations in California, hell Blaine County takes a lot from the Palm Springs/Coachella/Bakersfield area.

[Declan]

It just makes no sense to have California as a state alongside San Andreas. Why would there be two identical states? Rockstar quite clearly used California as their influence for San Andreas, it makes no sense for someone to fly from LSX to LAX to visit the sights in LA that are the exact same as they are in LS.

 

Everything we portray is based off of California, except our laws weirdly enough.

 

[Ink]

Just now, Declan said:

It just makes no sense to have California as a state alongside San Andreas. Why would there be two identical states? Rockstar quite clearly used California as their influence for San Andreas, it makes no sense for someone to fly from LSX to LAX to visit the sights in LA that are the exact same as they are in LS.

 

Everything we portray is based off of California, except our laws weirdly enough.

 

 

I agree with this notion. I would personally be much more immersed in our Los Santos if it was the "Los Angeles" of GTA:W, and that there wasn't a real Los Angeles hiding just out of sight across the water. "Come visit Los Santos, it's basically Los Angeles but just a lot shittier and all the people are really tall."