Player-Kill Rework

[Guest]

There should be a /Dice system for  injury situation so player himself can't PK himself out of everything. Other option would be that the FD  on scene can decide if the player dies or not.

[Björk]

On 11/4/2018 at 7:29 AM, Tr1bal said:

There should be a /Dice system for  injury situation so player himself can't PK himself out of everything. Other option would be that the FD  on scene can decide if the player dies or not.

Giving FD that kind of power can be a little dangerous at times, in my opinion. Yes we declare people dead while on scene, but in some circumstances it may be beyond our reach to declare it a CK. I do however believe in a very unforgiving CK system, because if you're going to rp dead to just get out of something, there needs to be repercussions to said death, but we also have things that go out of our control too. A player can CK before PD and FD can even have a say. Example being I was in the LSPD cells applying CPR to a dying person. They took a hit from a baton and rped dying there on the floor and were Cked the next minute before anything was done

My point being, if a CK is being handled, It should either be up to the parties involved, lenient for legal factions in some cases to avoid just letting people get away for something for example what @Law said where they would come out scott free even after being put in the morgue the other day. Either that or the admin in which would be handling the CK could have a say in order to make it a more -realistic- CK or PK in order to preserve the heavy rp standards on the server.

[Rekhoem]

BUMPERS

 

 

Can we get this finally forwarded or something? The problem is still there. 

 

The most annoying thing is the fact that people still don't die if they make the police shoot them...

Edited November 19, 2018 by Rekhoem

[Fremie]

As I'm in the Fire Department, it hasn't really brought much trouble for me, I can't exactly speak for the majority of us but it's not exactly a big concern or problem for us, hell I don't even think we talk about it. If someone accepts their player death, we still take the time to arrive and radio in that they're dead on arrival after doing our vital checks and everything else because we've accepted that not everyone is gonna be alive when we arrive.

[Law]

2 hours ago, Fremie said:

As I'm in the Fire Department, it hasn't really brought much trouble for me, I can't exactly speak for the majority of us but it's not exactly a big concern or problem for us, hell I don't even think we talk about it. If someone accepts their player death, we still take the time to arrive and radio in that they're dead on arrival after doing our vital checks and everything else because we've accepted that not everyone is gonna be alive when we arrive.

I respect your view on the current situation but there's a bit more to it than Fire Department treating people, a lot of people are claiming player kills to escape consequences whilst others are punished. It's broken and a push factor the longer people play. 

[Fremie]

2 hours ago, Law said:

I respect your view on the current situation but there's a bit more to it than Fire Department treating people, a lot of people are claiming player kills to escape consequences whilst others are punished. It's broken and a push factor the longer people play. 

 

Yeah of course, but your original post makes it seem like it bothers the Fire Department when it really doesn't. However I agree that a player-kill needs more consequences to push people to survive more encounters if they've been downed but obvious injuries that would lead to death and a player-kill shouldn't have any consequences.

 

IE: Headshot, Motor Vehicle Accidents, 5x Stab Wounds, Blood Loss, etc.

[Koko]

Agreed. I find it terribly silly to have someone RP dying in my arms, surrounded by official departments, having been officially declared dead by a professional, and the only consequence is sometimes some vague amnesia that I'm not sure everyone RPs. Jail sentences are already lenient enough as they are, at most two or three days without playing your character.

 

The Criminal system has to be reworked imho, or at least make it so that sentences grow through repeated crimes until eventually a character is sentenced to death. It feels terribly deflating to risk my legal characters to be robbed, beaten, crippled and even have attempts to a CK by criminal groups, to then see that these same criminals are shot down by the police several times a week and if they just RP flat-lining and dying they can continue their RP, because it also forces on the players involved in that scene to have to forget that they saw that character actually play out their death, having to call in Coroners to take them to the morgue and perform an autopsy. A PK wipes the specific character involved's memory, it shouldn't have to make me forget what you decided to type out and play. 

 

A major RP point in FD for many new Firefighters is coming to terms with how rough it is to have patients die on you. Some have terrible psychological consequences to nights with several dead, or a particularly rough week of calls. But then sometimes those people who vividly describe dying are on a scene two days later, and it's silly, because in that particular EMTs world that character's dead, and they personally declared them dead.

 

As an FD member, I never force CK on anyone, regardless of my own opinions on the magnitude of someone's wounds. All my RP is reactive to what you tell me your character's diagnosis is. I'll accept how you crashed into a wall at 120 mph in a sports car and just got a small cut on the forehead and the car is miraculously fine. That's just how things work, and I might grumble about it on the low, but I'll never contest a player on this.

 

... but If you don't want your character to die, don't make them die. Simple as that. A "PK" system in a Heavy Roleplay server that accounts for people actually emoting their death is pointless imho. If you don't want to risk your characters' life, don't take them into constant risk and into situations that will get them shot at by half a dozen police officers. Or survive the encounter and face the legal consequences. We can't have our cake and eat it too. If you describe your character dying in text, then they're actually dead, it's NOT a PK, by definition. As per official departments and their reports, that specific person actually died that day. To then have it all be meaningless for one of the parties but not the other is just odd, to say the least.

 

This is what we're talking about: people actually playing out that their characters succumb to their wounds willingly to escape consequences, while people like PD do suffer tangible consequences in the form of Suspensions, Terminations and personal IC harassment from criminal organizations that can and has led to CKs, not about you being rammed by a courier who's grinding money when the server's practically empty.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Koko

[Robyn]

Stop the arguing on the thread, this isn't the place to be throwing things back and forth. Make reports if there's a problem.

[Koko]

I don't agree on the solution being that every death is a CK either, because we all die in terribly unsatisfying, dumb and non-RP ways multiple times a week, but I think we really need to define very clearly what a PK is and what a CK is, and what each entail and under what circumstances they can each be applied, particularly when it involves other players and interference with each one's particular development.

 

... I've only been here for a bit over two months, and I'm also new to GTA RP in general, but I for one had always assumed that if someone actually RPed their own death via a narrative around people that that instantly meant that the character was for all intents and purposes declaring a CK. Only recently did I learn that you apparently can do that and treat it as a PK, which is terribly strange to me. I always understood a PK as an OOC agreement that when your hit points reach zero, you do not roleplay your death, but rather wake at a hospital, because the character hasn't been killed. But the case seems to be that you can have it be an OOC agreement to roleplay your character's death, but not make it permanent. 

 

This is particularly messy when others have to face the consequences of another character's explicitly declared and described death (be that emotionally, legally, or whatever), to then simply see them the next day, with one facing no significant consequences, and the other still doing so (and again, I don't just mean this in the legal sense). All I'd want is for a clear ruling to be made, because it lends itself to constant continuity messes and bad blood in the community with one side, the other or both walking off disappointed.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Koko

[Law]

2 hours ago, Rumbunctious said:

Here lies your problem. Going to jail, where there are no RP opportunities, is not fun for criminals. Criminals need a way to have an opportunity for RP while jailed, and the only option I can think of is adding a Bolingbroke faction and lengthening sentences. There are so many opportunities to be had in prison RP.

1

Okay, so what I'm getting from your quote and response is that it's not fun for either of the parties involved, I agree with you. But it's not meant to be fun if you're doing something illegal; mainly because a) your roleplay personally involves resources of legal factions and b) there needs to be risk for reward, claiming a player kill to escape jail time is dissolving the risk. As for prison roleplay, if it's required to resolve the issue that illegal roleplayers have, I support that. Also, criminals don't have to sit there after the crime scene, typing out the documentation on the situation, respawn and run away.

2 hours ago, Rumbunctious said:

The other option of course is to add consequences to PK's. Like making the character unplayable for a few days, or a week. Something that makes dying less attractive than being arrested. However, I'd much rather see a Bolingbroke faction than this.

1

As for this, my suggestion is exactly that, consequences to player kills; mine being that you either roleplay heavy injuries and survive or you roleplay death. The consequence of this would be additional character flaws due to injuries and being able to be charged for the crime they did. Currently, there's no risk for reward in the illegal sector, at this state, you can go chain robbing and claim a PK when PD finally end your temporary "fun". Theoretically.

2 hours ago, Rumbunctious said:

As for every death being a CK - sounds good, doesn't work. Every OOC medium will be filled with complaints of their characters permanently dying, etc. You'd be catering to a niche audience within the niche audience that is GTA RP.

1

Personally, I'm still sticking with the fact that once you roleplay death, it should be a permanent death. If you're script-killed in a player kill fashion, it's too stupid to end your character's development so you should be able to roleplay heavy injuries, perhaps fall into a coma or just something along those lines. This would also give the opportunity for a hospital faction to open.

10 minutes ago, Koko said:

I don't agree on the solution being that every death is a CK either, because we all die in terribly unsatisfying, dumb and non-RP ways multiple times a week, but I think we really need to define very clearly what a PK is and what a CK is, and what each entail and under what circumstances they can each be applied, particularly when it involves other players and interference with each one's particular development.

1

I appreciate your addition to the discussion and I have yet to be player killed on this server because even if I were to be script-killed in "unsatisfying, dumb and non-RP ways" then it'll be more sensible to get the situation sorted with an admin rather than let that kind of behavior plague your roleplay. I feel like that's why people have formed such a comfort layer around the current player-kill system because they let others kill them with little to no reason. I also agree with you on more defined rules when it comes to PKs and CKs because I feel like they're not enforced correctly.

10 minutes ago, Koko said:

... I've only been here for a bit over two months, and I'm also new to GTA RP in general, but I for one had always assumed that if someone actually RPed their own death via a narrative around people that that instantly meant that the character was for all intents and purposes declaring a CK. Only recently did I learn that you apparently can do that and treat it as a PK, which is terribly strange to me. I always understood a PK as an OOC agreement that when your hit points reach zero, you do not roleplay your death, but rather wake at a hospital, because the character hasn't been killed. But the case seems to be that you can have it be an OOC agreement to roleplay your character's death, but not make it permanent. 

 

Exactly what I thought and want to argue in this suggestion, people are claiming and/or roleplaying death, claiming it as a player kill to escape whatever situation they're in. As for the last part, that's what a player kill should be, roleplaying heavy injuries by respawning at a hospital ONLY if there are no admins or EMS to revive you and roleplay taking you to the hospital. Other than the last sentence of this quote, this is exactly what I'm pushing for.

10 minutes ago, Koko said:

This is particularly messy when others have to face the consequences of another character's explicitly declared and described death (be that emotionally, legally, or whatever), to then simply see then the next day, with one facing no consequences, and the other still doing so (and again, I don't just mean this in the legal sense). All I'd want is for a clear ruling to be made, because it lends itself to constant continuity messes and bad blood in the community with one side, the other or both walking off disappointed.

1

I agree with this part too. It's quite silly to see people die; friend or foe and then see them walk again, are we also meant to roleplay amnesia effects of their death? Or do we roleplay a shock emotion that the corpse is walking?

 

Thank you for chipping in, there are mixed opinions and I would love for there to be a middle ground rather than the current, broken system.