Player-Kill Rework

[Law]

Hello,

 

I would like to invite the administration to chime in on my suggestion as I suggest a rework on how the current player-kill system works. For those who do not know, a player-kill is a non-permanent death which involves respawning after being killed script-wise. That's as barebones as it gets and the cons of this are that, it can be used to escape punishment from the police, escape roleplaying your injuries with the paramedics and escape roleplaying flaws that you pick up from these heavy injuries.

 

I would like to suggest that a player-kill should not be used as a means to escape heavy injuries UNLESS there are no emergency services available to respond to a call about the shooting, crash or whatever may have script-killed you.

 

I don't want to make it about myself and my faction but as a Coroner service, I am constantly called to scenes where the player has been player-killed, it simply doesn't make sense for someone to accept a player-kill, get transported to the morgue and then walk down the street the next day. Player kills should be heavy injuries that don't suffice a character-kill so IF there are emergency services available, an admin would revive you from the downed state to carry on roleplay instead of avoiding it.

 

It has brought a lot of frustration to the Police, Fire and finally, myself that people are using the player-kill loophole to escape punishment by simply claiming their wounds would kill them. If your character claims death, it should be actual death, not a respawn to escape roleplay. It's not fun that these departments have to produce documentation on players kills with wording such as "deceased" which isn't true because the player gets to respawn.

 

My next point is "What if my injury would realistically end me? How can I roleplay heavy injuries like that?"

 

For example, if you've been shot dead by a headshot; and the motive was to player-kill you, I believe it should be agreed between the party that it would hit a non-fatal spot in the head/neck.

 

Player-kills would need to be more thought out than just aim and shoot, if your motive is to player-kill someone, you wouldn't leave them tied to a tree in the middle of the forest with no way of them surviving, this would realistically kill your victim. 

 

Anyway, please do feel free to chip in, what other ways this issue can be fixed.

 

EDIT: Player-kills would cause amnesia to make players forget about the events leading up to their heavy injuries, making it far more viable than dying but still being alive by respawning.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Law

[M52B28]

my grandpa always told me that if you rp a death u get cked. no matter how hard the crash was or how hard you got shot - if u wanted to keep playin on that char you had to rp a miracle.

[Rekhoem]

I'm personally for a much less forgiving system in general when it comes to kills - deaths are a way in which roleplay progresses. If people die for a good reason, be it that they are gunned down by the police, or murdered by someone else, it should /ALWAYS/ be a CK as long as the death is properly reasoned. In my opinion, PKs bring zero development to either side, and are merely used and abused to change outcomes and fix errors one did in the past by wiping himself off other's memories. Thus there are no consequences one has to fear from fucking up, leading them to much more unrealistic behavior in some scenarios since 'they can always just do a PK to fix it'.

[Paris]

This might be a reasonable request for regular people, but those who are Police Officers are killed at a much higher rate than regular players. I disagree with the suggestion that you should "lessen" the damage caused to avoid what would in reality be death. I've always liked roleplaying injuries to my full extent when something happens, and if that should lead to my death then so be it. A good example that happened a few weeks ago is a great example of why I disagree with this suggestion. I pulled over a linerunner in a regular traffic stop, the driver explained aberrant behaviour so I asked him to step out of the truck. I took a few steps back and began typing down what I was about to say next when he started his truck and ran me over while I was typing. Not much to do from my side, I got flattened by multiple tons of steel, so I roleplayed my injuries accordingly. The fire department arrived and began roleplaying with me, and they attempted to force-ck me because I was roleplaying my injuries correctly, in a situation where there was no build-up, no reason to force a CK.

 

I understand that it might be frustrating to see the person walking after a PK death, but that's the work-around we have to allow people to have their characters alive for more than a week. I personally like the concept of PKs, and it's one that has worked for over a decade across multiple RP servers. If we began having different rules for regular players and LEOs that would not be okay, hence we should keep the playing field level and allow the person themselves to decide when they want to CK their character or not, unless you go through the process of trying to force CK them. We should never forget that some people attach a lot of time and effort and emotion into their characters, that might no longer be possible if the character can't live longer than a month due to these proposed rules.

 

As for people mentioning consequences, the consequence for murder comes from the law. If you are found to be guilty of murder, you'll have to serve your time in jail (and soon hopefully prison). Once the prison system is in, the times you have to spend inside for crimes will go up by a lot, and the consequence will be more severe.

[Rekhoem]

1 hour ago, Paris said:

 

As for people mentioning consequences, the consequence for murder comes from the law. If you are found to be guilty of murder, you'll have to serve your time in jail (and soon hopefully prison). Once the prison system is in, the times you have to spend inside for crimes will go up by a lot, and the consequence will be more severe.

One of the issues with the PK system as it is used now - escaping those consequences. If the LSPD is attempting to arrest someone, they perform a 'suicide-by-cop' and then call it a PK, saying "its voided im pk'd noone can do anything anymor!!"

Here an example of such happening, a player attempting to use a 'PK-by-cop' to escape actual IC Consequences for his actions: 

 

Law fine & good, but the PK-System is much too lax and forgiving. In my opinion (still), any properly reasoned death, be it based on personal trouble, you having hurt them before, or you being a blackmailer/rapist/robber that attacked them, should result in a CK as it is a consequence of your very own action ESPECIALLY if you make the police shoot you to escape further consequences.

[Law]

1 hour ago, Paris said:

This might be a reasonable request for regular people, but those who are Police Officers are killed at a much higher rate than regular players. I disagree with the suggestion that you should "lessen" the damage caused to avoid what would in reality be death. I've always liked roleplaying injuries to my full extent when something happens, and if that should lead to my death then so be it. A good example that happened a few weeks ago is a great example of why I disagree with this suggestion. I pulled over a linerunner in a regular traffic stop, the driver explained aberrant behaviour so I asked him to step out of the truck. I took a few steps back and began typing down what I was about to say next when he started his truck and ran me over while I was typing. Not much to do from my side, I got flattened by multiple tons of steel, so I roleplayed my injuries accordingly. The fire department arrived and began roleplaying with me, and they attempted to force-ck me because I was roleplaying my injuries correctly, in a situation where there was no build-up, no reason to force a CK.

4

I don't see why police officers should be excluded from the same system, after all, they're also "regular players". In context to the damage being lessened to survive the situation, of course, if you want to roleplay the full extent, that's up to you but in situations where you don't deserve a permanent death, it should be roleplayed that you survived with heavy injuries rather than escape roleplay by clicking respawn. I get the whole realism roleplay but if you're ready to end your character's development over a petty traffic stop with no valid reason to get run over, that's up to you.

1 hour ago, Paris said:

I understand that it might be frustrating to see the person walking after a PK death, but that's the work-around we have to allow people to have their characters alive for more than a week. I personally like the concept of PKs, and it's one that has worked for over a decade across multiple RP servers. If we began having different rules for regular players and LEOs that would not be okay, hence we should keep the playing field level and allow the person themselves to decide when they want to CK their character or not, unless you go through the process of trying to force CK them. We should never forget that some people attach a lot of time and effort and emotion into their characters, that might no longer be possible if the character can't live longer than a month due to these proposed rules.

5

Yes, it's not only frustrating but broken too, I don't understand how police, fire and myself are expected to produce documents on a person that has died multiple times in comparison to them claiming heavy injuries and respawning if no EMS is available; or being revived from a downed state to roleplay survivable injuries to simply... not escape roleplay. It may have worked across different roleplay servers but since we're talking about roleplaying realistic injuries, is it realistic to see the person you killed walking the next day? Again, this rule is suggested for all players, regardless of their profession, if a police officer is killed for little to no reason, why should they have to roleplay being shot dead center in the head instead of the neck?

 

Again, if you have a character that's developed to get itself killed, that's merely based on the leniency of the current player kill system; "I'll go rob a bank because I know I can claim a player kill and won't be arrested, charged or anything of similar". People need to really worship the development they're making on their character, at the moment, I've witnessed far too many avoiding flaws like being hospitalized and instead claim death, respawn and run around like a heavy pup. I don't know how the police are okay with that. They spend multiple resources to track, hunt and arrest the person, only for them to arrive at the hospital and claim death because they know they'll have to go through the process of being arrested or taken to court.

1 hour ago, Paris said:

As for people mentioning consequences, the consequence for murder comes from the law. If you are found to be guilty of murder, you'll have to serve your time in jail (and soon hopefully prison). Once the prison system is in, the times you have to spend inside for crimes will go up by a lot, and the consequence will be more severe.

 

As mentioned above, you can simply claim a player kill and the server would shrug their shoulders and move on instead of calling the person out for escaping consequences. I don't know how many times you've experienced this but I've seen this far too often.

 

1. A criminal provokes the police, engages firefight first (CK-able clause already)
2. The criminal is gunned down and taken to hospital by FD
3. FD calls in over the radio that the suspect is at x, y and z hospital
4. suspect hears it, doesn't want to be arrested so they claim they died of their injuries.
5. respawns and sprints back to their house or the location of their death.

 

Then again, this is my opinion on what I've experienced, I'm sure you've experienced different things. I personally think the current system is a massive loophole to escape any consequences that could be applied by the police (in terms of charges), paramedics (in terms of a wound taking time to heal), courts.

 

 

[Topinambour]

Making CKs more common could work - with an entirely different community.

 

I played on other games before, with very different communities. On the last one I played, the rule was "the killer decides whether it's an injury or a CK". That community is highly mature, very friendly, people talk a lot more, so cases of abusive CK are very uncommon. And even in a case of an unjustified kill, the community is smaller and admins are much more involved, so they can easily act as an arbiter and determine whether there was an abuse or not. They know who's RP'ing with whom, who's whose enemy, etc. 

 

Here... We have some good RP but let's be honest, the level of maturity is far from the same. OOC'ly we have disgusting amounts of racism, sexism, OOC harassment, insults contests to make a specific player leave, bullying, ... So it's hard to trust the player to make a justified decision and not be an ass / kill you for dubious reasons. And we have people getting shot for the most insane reasons in highly unrealistic conditions ("he didn't pay me a beer, I'll gun him down on Mirror Park Plaza at 12:00 midday"* ok.jpg). And since we have a lot of players, admins can't be expected to know every RP storyline of every player, so it makes it easy to come up with a "good enough reason" after the fact. Admins could work as arbiters, but... It works when you have 6 admins for 90 players, not when you have over 600 players. Admins already asked to do a lot, and asking them to follow everyone's RP would be way overboard and completely unreasonable.

 

The risk here would be to have good RP'ers being CK'd way too often - before they manage to properly develop their character and start interesting storylines and relations. While some people don't mind having to reroll a new char every few weeks, many do and in the long run... It could hurt the server a lot more than expected - and make some very good RP'ers flee, while having the not-so-good ones staying around. Because let's be honest: the people abusing that new system and CK'ing everyone left & right would most likely not be the RP'ers we want to keep on the server, but those we'd rather not have around.

 

A few people mentioned here that some players escape consequences by PK'ing themselves. But they don't seem to think of the surprisingly high amount of players who got PK'd over almost nothing. Forcing CKs on script death could (would) very well end up penalizing the latter, and not the former.

 

* I know this example looks a bit overexaggerated, except it actually happened. Sadly =/ And it's one among many.

[Law]

I've read all the above and yeah, I agree that if good roleplayers were character killed for petty reasons, it would result in their leave. So I don't think making character kills more common is somewhat of a bad idea.

 

45 minutes ago, Topinambour said:

A few people mentioned here that some players escape consequences by PK'ing themselves. But they don't seem to think of the surprisingly high amount of players who got PK'd over almost nothing. Forcing CKs on script death could (would) very well end up penalizing the latter, and not the former.

 

* I know this example looks a bit overexaggerated, except it actually happened. Sadly =/ And it's one among many.

 

 

Those players who get killed over almost nothing should then report the situation rather than allowing that kind of behavior to become normal. However, my suggestion doesn't imply that character kills should be forced, I'm suggesting that instead of allowing players to claim death and respawn with no consequences for their wrongs, they should be roleplaying heavy injuries so they can get charged.

 

I'm basically suggesting that instead of claiming death on a player kill, it should be heavy injuries with amnesia effects just the same as the current system. It simply doesn't make sense to witness a friend get brutally killed and then see them walking the next day. All because they got player killed by getting run over. I would love to see some staff chipping into this because I'm sure I'm not alone on this thought. I don't know, it just seems like something a darkrp gmod server would have, respawn, new life rule.

[hectic]

Should be a CK if you are gunned down by 4 or more officers

all other deaths should be a PK unless agreed by the player for a CK and an admin

and a PK should be you , when your character dies, you spawn and wake up in the hospital, having forgot everything leading up to the events which led to your death and you're free to rp injuries. They shouldn't be allowed to take part on ongoing disputes for atleast 48 hours

rpg-mode pls, nobody wants perma death for characters they've worked on for months/years for -reasons-

 

[Franelli]

Players put a lot of effort into their characters and most of the time they contribute a significant amount of hours towards developing and designing them properly. Therefore, CKs should never be forced upon a player unless he specifically agrees to it one way or another. 

 

If you're aiming to solve the problem of players' suicides in order to avoid legal consequences with LSPD - the said issue can be handled with a different approach: 

 

For starters, a proper damage system needs to be introduced to the server so everyone can examine the damages of a brutally wounded player. If the said player suffers from multiple gun shot wounds to their chest or head, it would be alright for him to roleplay his character being killed. When police officers fire upon a suspect, they do their best not to get him killed but heavily injured instead; just as they are trained to do in the academy. With that being said, if the wounds are not too severe and the injuries are treatable - FD will be called on scene and take care of the recovery process of the brutally wounded suspect. It would bring a proper chance to everyone and would introduce a fair game for PD, FD and the criminals on the server.

 

Other than that, I don't see any problem with seeing a character you've previously killed walking down the street the following day, as some of you have described in this thread. There is no relationship whatsoever between the deceased character and its killer after the deed is done. Let's say you're roleplaying a robber and events lead to you shooting somebody dead. It's not like the deceased character will walk up to you minutes after getting gunned down and start roleplaying with you from scratch. However, you will most likely run into the same character sometime after the conclusion of the situation due to fact our playerbase isn't that high, and when you do you just go ahead and roleplay not knowing each other. That's what PK stands for.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Franelli