Whats with the admin response time?

[Viscaria]

Regardless it would be too much to ask with the current workloads, it would only serve to heavily slow down admin response times further adding to the heavy workload of admins, the solution would be to reduce them not increase them with more work.

[sparky]

1 hour ago, Viscaria said:

he other issue with this suggestion is how would you take the items from the property?

... /pinv? Give LSPD/LSSD access to just take the items. It's not difficult. If they do something fucked up, their LFM handler can give them a good telling off and void everything. It's not like admins are against voiding situations that legal factions spend hours+ RPing in because someone DC'ed or because they got banned for something stupid. You are creating more work because you don't trust players. Give players more autonomy. 

1 hour ago, Viscaria said:

IFM should trust official factions to be able to do burglary while having their faction leadership supervising.

... Yes? I do agree with this. Maybe we will have more higher quality factions that have proved they deserve this privilege. You don't trust players you give factions to. Hell, official factions should also be granted the ability to rob stores without admin approval. You're creating more work for yourself, halting and preventing RP because you don't think players who you already give a title to can be trusted to RP fairly and respectably themselves.

 

1 hour ago, Viscaria said:

only 1 LFM admin is able to do this

And whos fault is this? Is it the players fault? Maybe more admins should have access to logs to be able to help?

1 hour ago, Viscaria said:

Its not about having zero faith in faction leaders,

It is. Everything has to go through admins instead of letting players just get on with it.

Edited June 23, 2022 by shotgun_sam

[Mistery14]

At the end of the day of course there's going to be long response times if a lot of RP is behind supervision, and if the admin team is understaffed and whatnot. But where exactly are the alternatives to make it so that RP requires less OOC admin intervention to allow them to focus on other things like handling player reports and whatnot?

 

Scripts? Well, no. The more scripts you have the more things can be abused, therefore the more staff is needed to oversee that abuse factor AND the RP that comes with it, the more rules you have around those scripts and the RP around it, the more staff is going to be needed to enforce it as well. This is especially true for business robberies and burglaries. Can't have the equivalent of /vbreakin /vtitems happen for houses and businesses, you know?

 

But I do agree that things like OOC car crashes absolutely don't need admins to determine whether or not a crash is legitimate. If one of the players find the excuse of lag/desync, I mean.. The admins won't really know any more than that player does, no one knows whether they actually did experience lag/desync. Maybe it's frustrating to those who feel the need to RP everything no matter the circumstances or context, but unless it's blatant VDM, allowing for self-voiding in that situation until we can actually afford to dedicate time to them is just most optimal overall. This sort of stuff would allow for less workload and therefore less response time for other things, even if it's a little.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Mistery14

[Wuhtah]

2 hours ago, Kucheras said:

Every admin response seems to entice some sort of guilt trip or victimization over the fact that they are put in this position. Players should not have to feel bad, or demotivated because admins don’t feel like doing what they’re supposed to do. The volunteer excuse is so lame, because Volunteer Firefighters exist, and I promise you “this isn’t my real job so I’m not getting that fire” isn’t something they say. The entire way the server works and your procedures are here because the admin team made them that way. Players didn’t decide only one LFM could have logs, the admin team did. 

 

Please refer to my post. I accepted this position to help you guys - yes. I did not accept the position to get abused. If that's guilt tripping/victimization, my goodness has the world changed for the wrong if this is how you feel IRL too - or just over the internet. 

 

Players SHOULD feel bad when they are constantly shitting on us, for what? Because we told them no? How about instead of shitting and throwing a hissy fit - you talk to us like a normal adult and see if we can come to a compromise. If the admin comes back to you and blows you off - then go higher up and staff report. If you want to be listened to - be respectful. 

 

Volunteer Firefighters do exist, sure. However, they spend less than 10 hours most week because of it. They are also put in that position to try to get resume/job experience as they are in school or academy to get paid to become a firefighter. Let me reiterate what I just said:

- They spend less than 10 hours a week. Most actually spend 4-6. (Source: I'm in a family of volunteered firefighters.)

- This means, a bit more than 1 hour per day for a week. Some admins spend that 1 hour a day helping out. Most admins spend more than 1 hour a day (up to 6 and perhaps more) per day to make sure JUST the in game reports are handled. I'm not talking about anything else. An administrator can literally sit in game for 6 hours and still work their ass off to handle game reports because there are just so many. How is this something the way the server works? What exactly do you propose in this situation?

 

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The admin team or management on this server looks like it's intentionally spreading admins too thin, where they complain about workload, as if SAMP didn't already solve this issue ten years ago. From what I've read there needs to be a revamp. There are servers with a way more intense "workload" that don't have an issue with report response times, because they didn't set them selves up to literally NEED a report to continue roleplay.  In fact, I have never even heard the term "workload" to describe admin duty, and I've been an admin for over four years on SAMP and played for over eleven years. This server has an inefficient admin system that makes admins feel they are "against players" or "forcing more work" on themselves, even though players literally just want to play the game and are following the outdated and sluggish avenues forced upon them.

 

It's not intentional - the server grows more and more every day and at some point - it's going to burn administrators out, so the burnt out ones take breaks and the ones who are just placed within the staff team go full throttle. Thus is the cycle of life.

 

Please, enlighten me about the SAMP solving the issues instead of just pointing out flaws within the system that we literally already know and have been trying to work on. How was it solved? What exactly happened? Any information would be great.

 

I also don't know which servers you are referring to, but that's great on them that they have a shit ton of workload and do not have short response times. Could I ask what the playerbase is with them? 

 

Common Courtesy rule states: Even if someone did a rulebreak, you MUST continue to RP. So, if people are breaking Common Courtesy, I'm not sure how to respond to that - that's a player issue, not an admin issue. 

 

Could I also ask what the player base was like, in numbers, for the server you administrated on for SAMP?

 

I disagree and agree that the system is inefficient. In some ways, it works brilliantly. In other ways - there's room to improve. The server is evolving and growing, so yes, the staff team and rules need to as well which is slowly being worked on. 

 

I feel "against players" when they purposefully call me: A faggot, a bitch, that I'm power-hungry, that I am biased, that because I am a woman I showed my tits to make staff, etc etc. There are tons of insults that not just I, receive on the daily. That's where the mindset of against players comes in. I don't believe administrators are "better" than the players on this server. We aren't, we were just chosen because we're wanting to help players... amongst other things. Clean admin record, community presence, etc.

 

Topics like these do force us to take more "workload" or try to get on because in the end, we want to make it so you guys have fun/have the least amount of stress. Obviously, this doesn't happen.

 

So to be frank - yes. The admin times are horrendous and I have given multiple fixes on how to keep trying to work through it. Staff reporting is the biggest thing unfortunately. I don't want to see any staff member get reported for inactivity or not doing what they are supposed to do - but sometimes, a little kick in the ass needs to be done. 

 

Spoiler

I've never seen admins complain about sweating too much, dying digging their heels into the sand, swinging their pickaxe at a rock until they die, until I played this server. To me, this doesn't seem like an issue of players asking too much, but admins being put into a shitty position, breeding this weird toxic guilt tripping environment that isn't healthy for the server.

 

Again, I believe you might be a bit newish to the server and don't quite understand how much goes into this server. In SAMP, I did play for a bit, but it wasn't nearly as in depth as GTA5 is. If this is your first GTA5 server, welcome. If you have been on other text-based GTA5 servers with a huge player base, I'd ask if you could reach out to me personally in DMs and maybe we can think of a few things together to fix a bit of holes we have going on right now. 

 

You guys aren't asking for too much when it comes to response times. We never said that, nor did we guilt trip anyone. We are giving you information, as best we can in our positions, of why the response times may be slow. I'm not trying to justify it so to speak from MY perspective. I'm letting you know, that back a year ago - I was able to get on for 10-12 hours a day. Now, I'm lucky if I get on for a hour. However, I put my time and effort in a lot of other different places whether if it's pushing suggestions, picking up forum reports, asset transfers, refund requests or property management related items. This isn't me justifying anything - this is me letting you know that things have changed from my side and how active I used to be to not so active in game. On discord and the forums, I am insanely active because woo, mobile. 

 

I hope this sheds some light, and I do apologize if I came off too harsh within any of these words.

[Junx]

LFM is the biggest issue on this server not the report waiting times.

Try waiting 5 months for a decision on something instead.

[kuchera]

  

52 minutes ago, Wuhtah said:

 

Players SHOULD feel bad when they are constantly shitting on us, for what? Because we told them no? How about instead of shitting and throwing a hissy fit - you talk to us like a normal adult and see if we can come to a compromise. If the admin comes back to you and blows you off - then go higher up and staff report. If you want to be listened to - be respectful. 

 

I feel like we're talking about two different things in this regard. I one hundred percent agree with you that people need to be civil, etc. I didn't mean for it to come across as that, because I didn't once mention somebody shitting on you on whatever it may be. Having dealt with servers where racism and most OOC hate were tolerated and not against the rules, I feel for you here. I am glad that this server does take a better stance on allowing admins to have self respect and a backbone for themselves, instead of taking hate and not saying anything back. Someone getting banned for disrespect in an admin situation (what happens in this server, albeit rarely) is not something I'm familiar with, but I do agree with it. I was more specifically mentioning the more passive aggressive "I have a life, I can do what I want." -esque responses from not you specifically, but some admins on this post and other players. Again, this is true, everyone does have a life and can literally do what they want, but there should be a certain level of forced responsibility. Never have I disrespected an admin on this server nor caused an issue with them.

 

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It's not intentional - the server grows more and more every day and at some point - it's going to burn administrators out, so the burnt out ones take breaks and the ones who are just placed within the staff team go full throttle. Thus is the cycle of life.

 

Please, enlighten me about the SAMP solving the issues instead of just pointing out flaws within the system that we literally already know and have been trying to work on. How was it solved? What exactly happened? Any information would be great.

 

There should not be this cycle of huge workloads and burnouts like it's some sort of tech office in the first place. One of the most simple answers is that there needs to be more administrators. There has to be. More admins, less work for them, less chance to burn out. I do not know the vetting process for admins on this server, nor would I want to go through it, because it seems to be relatively and uniquely strict from what I've read from others on this post.

 

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I also don't know which servers you are referring to, but that's great on them that they have a shit ton of workload and do not have short response times. Could I ask what the playerbase is with them? 

 

Yeah, for sure. One where in it's prime circa had double the amount of players GTA:W has, needing two different hosted servers due to the player cap only being 1000 players per server, and both of those being filled consistently. (~1,500 daily) The other two, about the same player base as lower timezones on World. (~200-350 consistently). Keep in mind all three of these are roleplay servers. These being the English speaking servers I've administrated on, not including LSRP. (Wasn't an admin)

 

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Common Courtesy rule states: Even if someone did a rulebreak, you MUST continue to RP. So, if people are breaking Common Courtesy, I'm not sure how to respond to that - that's a player issue, not an admin issue. 

 

My main gripe is not with simple rule breaking reports. It is everything that needs an admin to be there. You CAN NOT just continue roleplaying a break in, a robbery, etc. Like the others mentioned. 

 

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 feel "against players" when they purposefully call me: A faggot, a bitch, that I'm power-hungry, that I am biased, that because I am a woman I showed my tits to make staff, etc etc. There are tons of insults that not just I, receive on the daily. That's where the mindset of against players comes in. I don't believe administrators are "better" than the players on this server. We aren't, we were just chosen because we're wanting to help players... amongst other things. Clean admin record, community presence, etc.

 

Again, not relevant to what I was talking about. Sorry this happened to you. But also, you were not just chosen. You specifically applied and went through the entire process and without a doubt had intentions to become an administrator long before applying, knowing the situation, knowing the state of the server, and knowing what's expected of you from players. 

 

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Again, I believe you might be a bit newish to the server and don't quite understand how much goes into this server. In SAMP, I did play for a bit, but it wasn't nearly as in depth as GTA5 is. If this is your first GTA5 server, welcome. If you have been on other text-based GTA5 servers with a huge player base, I'd ask if you could reach out to me personally in DMs and maybe we can think of a few things together to fix a bit of holes we have going on right now. 

 

Seeing my join date as three months ago and assuming I don't know what I'm talking about gives me no motivation to continue the conversation any further unfortunately. Your entire response reeks of passive aggressiveness, nothing related to my main point, and assuming I'm not knowledgeable because I haven't played this specific server for long. In my opinion, wouldn't newer players opinions be more important? You want new players to stay and be captivated and hooked. If someone is telling you they believe the system isn't working because from the few months they've been on this server they've experienced exactly that, the system not working; telling them they're new and simply don't understand it is not the way to have a conversation, nor make them understand, nor entice them to actually stay on the server despite them pointing out what they deem isn't right in order to better it and make a better time for everyone.

 

This is what I mean in my original post. In the most respectful way possible, it seems you took some sort of offense or as if my post was an attack on the server, when it's not. I truly already care about this server and want it to do good because I've already spent a lot of time here.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Kucheras

[sparky]

45 minutes ago, Wuhtah said:

I accepted this position to help you guys - yes

No one is denying this and I'm sure the majority of people think you're one of the most helpful admins out of loads of them.

 

However, no. Players should not feel bad when they're having to wait 1-3 hours when they see "there are currently 21 admins online". You and the admin team chose to be an admin. You chose to take on more responsiblities, knowing your IRL life, you choose to stay despite the workload. No one is asking you to stay (but we appreciate those who do) But to put it on us and say "we don't wanna come home to do admin duties" then don't.

[Wuhtah]

16 minutes ago, Kucheras said:

  I feel like we're talking about two different things in this regard. I one hundred percent agree with you that people need to be civil, etc. I didn't mean for it to come across as that, because I didn't once mention somebody shitting on you on whatever it may be. Having dealt with servers where racism and most OOC hate were tolerated and not against the rules, I feel for you here. I am glad that this server does take a better stance on allowing admins to have self respect and a backbone for themselves, instead of taking hate and not saying anything back. Someone getting banned for disrespect in an admin situation (what happens in this server, albeit rarely) is not something I'm familiar with, but I do agree with it. I was more specifically mentioning the more passive aggressive "I have a life, I can do what I want." -esque responses from not you specifically, but some admins on this post and other players. Again, this is true, everyone does have a life and can literally do what they want, but there should be a certain level of forced responsibility. Never have I disrespected an admin on this server nor caused an issue with them.

 

It seems like we were discussing two different things, I thought you were saying "You should deal with the toxicity back to you". I apologize for the miscommunication on my side of this conversation. There IS a certain forced level of responsibility - We are required to handle a certain number of reports in game and forum requests per month. However, the reports have become more increased over the past year or so, which is why the minimum amount may need to be raised perhaps. 

 

You are right with the statement "I have a life, I can do what I want" - 100%. But, I can't get mad at administrators for meeting the minimum requirements because I don't know what's going on with them IRL. I'd like to think that if they can't handle and keep up, they would leave the team instead of being forcefully removed.

 

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There should not be this cycle of huge workloads and burnouts like it's some sort of tech office in the first place. One of the most simple answers is that there needs to be more administrators. There has to be. More admins, less work for them, less chance to burn out. I do not know the vetting process for admins on this server, nor would I want to go through it, because it seems to be relatively and uniquely strict from what I've read from others on this post.

 

There definitely needs to be. I agree with you here, but let's be honest - We received 40-80 support applications. And probably.. 3-4? Look good enough to pass through. It is pretty strict IMO.. People are known to have made a mistake a year, maybe two years ago, and even with a perfect history - that small roleplay that they did might affect them in the application process. I believe I'm speaking a bit too much on this topic, so I will end things there - but I do believe that this might be getting changed or at least looked more into.

 

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Yeah, for sure. One where in it's prime circa had double the amount of players GTA:W has, needing two different hosted servers due to the player cap only being 1000 players per server, and both of those being filled consistently. (~1,500 daily) The other two, about the same player base as lower timezones on World. (~200-350 consistently). Keep in mind all three of these are roleplay servers. These being the English speaking servers I've administrated on, not including LSRP. (Wasn't an admin)

 

Did you leave the team because of burn out, or because it shut down? If this is getting too personal, just tell me to shut up. I just like to know how other people handled administration, why they left, etc. If you could give any suggestions from what you learned/seen from these servers, I'd honestly appreciate it. It may help us here. 

 

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My main gripe is not with simple rule breaking reports. It is everything that needs an admin to be there. You CAN NOT just continue roleplaying a break in, a robbery, etc. Like the others mentioned. 

 

I think we miscommunicated here as well. Most of the time - you can roleplay a robbery without administrative supervision, Rule 12 covers this a bit more in-depth, you only need an administrator in certain areas of the map. 

 

For warrants, I believe we should trust the more 'senior' officers within the faction and perhaps 'lead' the search warrant and go to the LFM handler who handles PD or SD with the logs of that search warrant. Then, the LFM handler can look over it (hopefully quickly, or even just a regular administrator since nothing was taken at the time) and then the admin could say "You guys would have found X" if the team looked in the correct spot. I think this might help with wait times in that regard, but I am not LFM and that's up to them ultimately. 

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Seeing my join date as three months ago and assuming I don't know what I'm talking about gives me no motivation to continue the conversation any further unfortunately. Your entire response reeks of passive aggressiveness, nothing related to my main point, and assuming I'm not knowledgeable because I haven't played this specific server for long. In my opinion, wouldn't newer players opinions be more important? You want new players to stay and be captivated and hooked. If someone is telling you they believe the system isn't working because from the few months they've been on this server they've experienced exactly that, the system not working; telling them they're new and simply don't understand it is not the way to have a conversation, nor make them understand, nor entice them to actually stay on the server despite them pointing out what they deem isn't right in order to better it and make a better time for everyone.

 

I stated this, and I felt like it would be taken the wrong way, to try to let you know there is a LOT more than what happens in SAMP servers. The passive aggressiveness you may have picked up, in which I did apologize for sounding harsh, was because I simply thought you were saying something that I did not agree with: "Admins deserve everything they get/signed up for." - roughly, of course. Which means the abuse. That's why I reacted the way I did. 

 

Again, you did take this the wrong way. It was just to alert you of how much is behind the scenes, and most of it is truly needed. You are correct that newer player's opinions are always welcomed, especially with those who have come from other big servers and can offer reasonable suggestions instead of others who just want to complain. I am not saying that this topic was created to complain (even though it harbors quite a few), it was made to understand why in the world is this going downhill. 

 

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This is what I mean in my original post. In the most respectful way possible, it seems you took some sort of offense or as if my post was an attack on the server, when it's not. I truly already care about this server and want it to do good because I've already spent a lot of time here.

 

I touched up on this previously in this response back to you. I'm glad you care a lot about the server, and I do look forward to reading any suggestions you bring forth from past experiences or even creative thinking. 

 

18 minutes ago, shotgun_sam said:

No one is denying this and I'm sure the majority of people think you're one of the most helpful admins out of loads of them.

 

However, no. Players should not feel bad when they're having to wait 1-3 hours when they see "there are currently 21 admins online". You and the admin team chose to be an admin. You chose to take on more responsiblities, knowing your IRL life, you choose to stay despite the workload. No one is asking you to stay (but we appreciate those who do) But to put it on us and say "we don't wanna come home to do admin duties" then don't.

 

Of course we did. I'm not saying you guys are in the wrong here for asking/complaining about it. But when you complain, offer helpful ways to improve. I never said players should feel bad when they're waiting 1-3 hours. I said players should feel bad for being toxic and rude towards administrators. 

 

Yes, but my workload hasn't changed since my year being here. In fact, I probably have taken on more (that I personally wanted to, not because I had to), but I have also given up being able to handle 400-600 reports per month. It's a give and take. 

 

Bottom line is that there is a quota that is being met by the administrators. If it's been met - they are in the clear of not being removed from the staff team. Then there are administrators who are doing more subteam work/forum work than in game reports - and this is also okay. However, we need to find that balance and that's on the staff team - not you guys. So, I apologize for you guys having to deal with it as of now. But please, use the temporary fixes I have stated within this thread to fix some of the issues you guys are having.

[pateuvasiliu]

On 6/22/2022 at 5:08 PM, joshua said:

t feels like this server's management prefers quantity > quality in the playerbase at the moment

Absolute facts. The server does NOT need 800 players, it needs 400 GOOD ROLEPLAYERS.

To me it's mind boggling when you see someone who can't even type a one line emote in proper English, I can only wonder how they got past the application.

Edited June 23, 2022 by pateuvasiliu

[Peak.]

1 minute ago, pateuvasiliu said:

Absolute facts. The server does NOT need 800 players, it needs 400 GOOD ROLEPLAYERS.

To me it's mind boggling when you see someone who can't even type a one line emote in proper English, I can only wonder how they got past the application.

Having this discussion yesterday amongst my faction. I'd rather have a lack of players that can actually RP and want to RP instead of every situation being turned into an admin situation because they think its NoPixel or some DM server.