Several inconsistencies in the server continuity

[i dont wanna od in LA]

10 minutes ago, Keane said:

Sure, there is a considerable percentage of players that want us to emulate LA and California to a degree. But that degree varies. Take a look at the LSSD, LSPD, LSFD and SAPR factions. The uniforms and vehicles are all based on the real life agencies but beyond that, each of those four factions portrays the real life agencies to a different degree. I can only really comment on the LSSD because I'm one of the faction leaders. The LSSD as a faction has about three quarters of the faction that push for things to be more in line with the LASD. This is based on several polls recently on faction-wide changes. The most recent change to be more like the LASD had 80% of the faction members that voted in support. If you were to try something similar in the other three factions I mentioned, you would get very different results in each. All of the players in those four factions I mentioned are roleplaying in agencies that are portraying their LA or CA counterparts. From speaking to players in various levels in each of those factions though, I can tell you that there are many that completely disagree with portraying LA or CA agencies and want to change things up. The LSSD has been faction reported several times for being too similar to the LASD. At the same time, internal surveys have criticized the faction for straying too far away from portraying the LASD. No matter which way the faction goes, there will always be a group of players in the faction that will disagree.

This was quite literally my point. LSSD is a great example of incorporating the entire Californian vibe (consisting of the aesthetics, recognizing certain events from California, lifestyle, interactions) & the community HAS TO standardize it. Right now I could literally make up a drill rap group (heavily based on Chicago or NYC) and the administration would be unable to take any steps, because it would remain in that gray zone. You also need to realize that  you're missing out a very major point that I've brought up in the OP and that is caselaws, you as a faction RECOGNIZE those laws and abide them for the most part, but due to the continuity being full of loopholes (and the JSA ban on cali caselaw) it's physically impossible to held one liable for those violations. It just has to be standardized and regulated on a server-wide level.

Edit: Nobody has quite said that it must be a 1:1 simulation and I don't recall saying this myself either. A very close simulation, with some exceptions for the sake of balance and enjoyment are needed, yes, I don't claim otherwise. I think the community as a whole has to come to a consensus and say "hey, we want to mirror Cali in this this this and this aspect. We unfortunately wont mirror this this and that aspect because of xyz xyz".

Edited July 10, 2021 by i dont wanna od in LA

[Storm]

5 minutes ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

Edit: Nobody has quite said that it must be a 1:1 simulation and I don't recall saying this myself either. A very close simulation, with some exceptions for the sake of balance and enjoyment are needed, yes, I don't claim otherwise. I think the community as a whole has to come to a consensus and say "hey, we want to mirror Cali in this this this and this aspect. We unfortunately wont mirror this this and that aspect because of xyz xyz".

Nobody wants a 1:1 even if they say they do, it's unfun. What people want is for things to be grounded in reality and to fit the aesthetic that we're going for which is obviously LA and California. There's a difference between portraying and being. We should strive to take the LA and surrounding area culture and fit it into the game as best we can. We shouldn't be roleplaying GTA lore, that would be stupid in my opinion. I don't mind when people reference things that exist within the map that we play in (i.e. chains like Burgershot or Cluckin bell, because they literally exist within the world we're playing in), but that doesn't mean that we have to acknowledge the other fictional states/cities that GTA games have included in the past. I like the idea that we replace LA and CA even if there is some suspended disbelief in roleplaying invisible land bridges that connect us to the rest of the United States. I would love for the pursuit of better portrayal of LA and it's culture.

[waterwings]

you are telling so many untruths atm 

 

its quite simple

you can't have cali caselaw without having cali law

cali caselaw is either built on:

1. cali law

2. cali constitution

3. other cali caselaw (which eventually traces back to 1 and 2)

 

caselaw is made based on the laws a state has.

 

unless we say cali law = sa law, we can not have their caselaw

[i dont wanna od in LA]

3 minutes ago, BjornV said:

you are telling so many untruths atm 

 

its quite simple

you can't have cali caselaw without having cali law

cali caselaw is either built on:

1. cali law

2. cali constitution

3. other cali caselaw (which eventually traces back to 1 and 2)

 

caselaw is made based on the laws a state has.

 

unless we say cali law = sa law, we can not have their caselaw

It can be easily adjusted by simply allowing for only the usage of the opinion/verdict itself without any mentions and/or references to the paragraphs or the solution can be as simple as stating that the laws were then changed, so regardless of the verdict and law paragraphs mentioned in it, it keeps its' meaning.

[radreaper100]

if someone says liberty city to me i just assume its a nickname for new york, same with vice city for miami, doesnt particularly kill my vibe as much. i like ur threads perspective tho

 

@Storm the landbridge thing is what seriously kills my vibe, why cant we just RP it as an island still apart of san andreas and only a couple miles away from the coastline that requires ferry or air travel

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by radreaper100

[Vassilios]

11 minutes ago, radreaper100 said:

if someone says liberty city to me i just assume its a nickname for new york, same with vice city for miami, doesnt particularly kill my vibe as much. i like ur threads perspective tho

 

@Storm the landbridge thing is what seriously kills my vibe, why cant we just RP it as an island still apart of san andreas and only a couple miles away from the coastline that requires ferry or air travel

 

I'm with you on this one, if somebody says Liberty City I just assume they mean New York there's no reason to go "ackhually ...".

[Alyssa McCarthy]

People not involved / knowledgeable in law may not realise what a big deal the current situation is.

 

On a more general note, we should strive to make the server more realistic to both the USA and California.

 

Its far to convenient that we slip back to a UK / Euro mindset and we should strive to do better.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Alyssa McCarthy

[shaobadman]

42 minutes ago, radreaper100 said:

if someone says liberty city to me i just assume its a nickname for new york, same with vice city for miami, doesnt particularly kill my vibe as much. i like ur threads perspective tho

 

@Storm the landbridge thing is what seriously kills my vibe, why cant we just RP it as an island still apart of san andreas and only a couple miles away from the coastline that requires ferry or air travel

 

Some people in the community have strong feelings against it being an island. I don't know why it's so taboo, maybe they think an island has to be hundreds of miles away from any mainland and completely forget about places like Singapore.

[LAGhost]

1 hour ago, Keane said:

Sure, there is a considerable percentage of players that want us to emulate LA and California to a degree. But that degree varies. Take a look at the LSSD, LSPD, LSFD and SAPR factions. The uniforms and vehicles are all based on the real life agencies but beyond that, each of those four factions portrays the real life agencies to a different degree. I can only really comment on the LSSD because I'm one of the faction leaders. The LSSD as a faction has about three quarters of the faction that push for things to be more in line with the LASD. This is based on several polls recently on faction-wide changes. The most recent change to be more like the LASD had 80% of the faction members that voted in support. If you were to try something similar in the other three factions I mentioned, you would get very different results in each. All of the players in those four factions I mentioned are roleplaying in agencies that are portraying their LA or CA counterparts. From speaking to players in various levels in each of those factions though, I can tell you that there are many that completely disagree with portraying LA or CA agencies and want to change things up. The LSSD has been faction reported several times for being too similar to the LASD. At the same time, internal surveys have criticized the faction for straying too far away from portraying the LASD. No matter which way the faction goes, there will always be a group of players in the faction that will disagree.

We can expand on the point I made about the LSSD to the community as a whole. If there can be that much disagreement in a faction that very clearly wants to be similar to the LASD, the issue is a lot worse elsewhere in the community. Portraying LA and California or portraying something else isn't a heads or tails decision. Every single community member has a different opinion and sits somewhere on a broad spectrum. If we went ahead with what you were proposing, there would be a lot more players that disagree than you might think. It's why we're leaning away from the 1:1 California simulation. It just won't work in a community this big.

 

 

This is a funny subject, but I'll chime in.

The LSSD faction was made after server continuity was established, it had a set idea of what it aimed to become and ever since then, the idea has been molded more and more to that, which just so happens to be in line with California.

 

The LSPD was the first LEA faction on the server and established in 2017 as pretty much a copy paste from what we knew PD to be on old communities in SA:MP and MTA:SA. PD is slowly changing and adapting to this more-so, but it's more long term and gradual than immediate.

 

I can't speak on SAPR but I believe each emergency services faction should share a streamlined mindset of closely following their real life counter, and then if the individual faction wants to go above that, then they can at the discretion of their leader, as it's the leader's faction.

 

The 1:1 argument has been long said, by the party 'against' Cali, but the main principle behind this is that - nobody at all is seeking 1:1.

 

It's impossible. What is possible is inserting the culture and politics of CA into SA to the extent a game can allow for, hence the terms; "emulate" and not 'simulate'.

And to be honest, if it was possible to establish this San Andreas = California, Los Santos = Los Angeles realization in 2019 - and still carry it on today, then it's possible to slightly amend the continuity to keep it rather consistent, airtight.

 

We keep returning back to this European-inspired or influenced version of America and it's pretty silly. I say this as a British person, but if game developers can create a game taking place somewhere in North America and make it accurate? Then we as a community are capable of creating a consistent, airtight backstory of the world we roleplay in, as well as a world that we're taking real world CA law and politics from, to enrich the environment with and immerse ourselves into.

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Wynters

[Yoak]

The issue with the servers continuity is that it is not enforced and people dont follow it, yet it exists