Unecessary Escalation of Trafic Stop

[Glunar]

I would like to mention, before explaining the situation, that ''on paper'' no rules were broken  when it comes to this incident. I just felt it necessary to point out a few things that ought to be re-considered in this post. Today, I drove my car recklessly and I was speeding to reposition it parking from one point to another while I was working in one of the night-clubs as a security guard. I have three licenses which are PF, CCW, and Guard Card. I got stopped by a police officer who was named Hannah Kai. It was obvious that it happened due to my driving and I knew it very well. As soon as I heard the siren I stopped my car, and I co-operated the best way I could. She approached my vehicle after pulling me over and asked for licenses. I showed her all of my licenses and she told me to be back after checking on a few things and said "Sure. Well, mister Altin, I'm just going to run this quickly and be back with you okay?" So I kept waiting. I would like to mention here that I am aware of the fact that I have to let someone know whether I'm armed or not - however, I didn't know I was supposed to say it before being asked. I'm a fresh player and I thought I was supposed to answer their questions and that it wasn't the first thing I was supposed to say. In hindsight, I understand that I was supposed to mention being armed, and that this should have been the first thing to say after being pulled over. However, the way the situation was handled gave me the impression that the cop was robotic in their roleplay. She came back to me after doing her check-ups and asked me "Any firearms on your person sir?" and I answer "I have a firearm, yes.", as I’ve thought to be proper conduct. I did drive fast and I’d more than willingly take a ticket for it. But getting arrested, to a point where I lost all my licenses, was somewhat extreme to me - considering I am quite new to the server and I’m still getting a grip on how things work. I answered her question of whether I was armed or not. I’d also like to mention that I am not an English native speaker, and I do not know the workings of American laws to such an intimate degree to know exactly how to react in a situation like that. In my opinion it would be courteous to, perhaps, give my character a warning and advise them on how to properly inform an officer about being in possession of a firearm, rather than stripping my character of all their rights to possess one.

 

I understand my mistake, it was an honest one, but I didn't mean to do it maliciously - I merely did not know the exact workings of the law in question, as I am still learning the GTA World’s etiquette. I’d appreciate it if the punishment was reconsidered.

 

Here are the pictures:

 

I also informed the other player about this post.

@Sush

[Marksman]

Everything you've complained about is entirely an IC issue and the fault of nobody else other than yourself.

 

When you go through the process to acquire a firearm, especially a CCW or a Guard Card, you are supposed to learn about these things. You are told that you need to INFORM the officer that you're carrying a firearm. It's the first thing you're supposed to tell them. Not when they ask. 

 

You also mention your lack of knowledge of American law, again this is something you need to tackle yourself. Not everyone is an American citizen that plays on GTAW, yet we learn about the things we need to. Especially when we portray American characters. Judging by the speech of your character, I can assume that they too were not born in America so this is still considered an entirely in-character problem. Not Sush's, or any other officers.

[TritonXVII]

25 minutes ago, Marksman said:

Everything you've complained about is entirely an IC issue and the fault of nobody else other than yourself.

 

When you go through the process to acquire a firearm, especially a CCW or a Guard Card, you are supposed to learn about these things. You are told that you need to INFORM the officer that you're carrying a firearm. It's the first thing you're supposed to tell them. Not when they ask. 

 

You also mention your lack of knowledge of American law, again this is something you need to tackle yourself. Not everyone is an American citizen that plays on GTAW, yet we learn about the things we need to. Especially when we portray American characters. Judging by the speech of your character, I can assume that they too were not born in America so this is still considered an entirely in-character problem. Not Sush's, or any other officers.

I don't think that he was complaining about rules being broken.

 

I think the question he poses here is whether this is a realistic behavior on the cop's end. Of course, she did nothing wrong, just followed her textbook, however would a real life cop have fucked someone over that bad for a minor infraction like that? I highly doubt it. It's kinda like the "tint meter" thing where every single officer that pulls you over wants to check your vehicle's tints, when in real life next to no cops actually check for it. Again, no rules broken, but it just seems too robotic to follow the textbook word for word. A real cop would have probably considered the fact that were he to actually revoke three licenses and ruin someone's primary source of income, a civil suit would have followed and that any reasonable judge would have sided with the civilian on this, and probably would have given him a warning. I mean, why go out of your way to make someone into a criminal when they're clearly complying?

 

So tl;dr no rules were broken obviously, but the roleplay seems a little mundane. You could have NPC'ed the interaction and lost absolutely no roleplaying quality.

Edited November 14, 2020 by TritonXVII

[Garras Up]

6 minutes ago, TritonXVII said:

I don't think that he was complaining about rules being broken.

 

I think the question he poses here is whether this is a realistic behavior on the cop's end. Of course, she did nothing wrong, just followed her textbook, however would a real life cop have fucked someone over that bad for a minor infraction like that? I highly doubt it. It's kinda like the "tint meter" thing where every single officer that pulls you over wants to check your vehicle's tints, when in real life next to no cops actually check for it. Again, no rules broken, but it just seems too robotic to follow the textbook word for word. A real cop would have probably considered the fact that were he to actually revoke three licenses and ruin someone's primary source of income, a civil suit would have followed and that any reasonable judge would have sided with the civilian on this, and probably would have given him a warning. I mean, why go out of your way to make someone into a criminal when they're clearly complying?

 

So tl;dr no rules were broken obviously, but the roleplay seems a little mundane. You could have NPC'ed the interaction and lost absolutely no roleplaying quality.

IDK man imo many officers would definitely fuck someone over like that because of an infraction like that. It's a danger to the Officer. Especially in a city like LS where cop killings are common. Unfortunately it's an in character issue. The player should have looked into the whole SHAFT code thing.

 

As someone who has had a CCW on a previous character. It does say within the rulebook for having a CCW that you're legally obligated to immediately inform the officer that you're carrying a weapon.

[TritonXVII]

5 minutes ago, Ears Up said:

IDK man imo many officers would definitely fuck someone over like that because of an infraction like that. It's a danger to the Officer. Especially in a city like LS where cop killings are common. Unfortunately it's an in character issue. The player should have looked into the whole SHAFT code thing.

 

As someone who has had a CCW on a previous character. It does say within the rulebook for having a CCW that you're legally obligated to immediately inform the officer that you're carrying a weapon.

I don't know man, I still don't think any officer would have bothered to go through that process and paperwork when faced with a perfectly compliant, law abiding individual. We throw around the "it's IC" excuse way too often to excuse this kind of thing. Sure sure, I get it... It's IC, it's not against the rules. But take a step back and consider whether the fact that it falls within the rules means that it's actually within the scope of the game. Are you providing quality roleplay? No, you could have literally been replaced by an NPC at this point and no difference would have been made whatsoever. What about giving him a stern scolding? What about reminding him the process? So if he was slightly sleepy IRL and forgot to mention that he's carrying, that's reason enough to ruin his life? That's just a silly thing to propose.

 

Also he's clearly dressed like a guard, in front of the club DT... There was no threat to her life whatsoever. That excuse is just petty tbh.

 

And of course, he still has the option of disputing the charge and the revocations by going to court ICly, but what happened to "we're all here to have fun and help each other roleplay?". To force him to go through all that shit for nothing, literally nothing, is beyond cruel and inhumane.

Edited November 14, 2020 by TritonXVII

[Glunar]

1 minute ago, TritonXVII said:

I don't know man, I still don't think any officer would have bothered to go through that process and paperwork when faced with a perfectly compliant, law abiding individual. We throw around the "it's IC" excuse way too often to excuse this kind of thing. Sure sure, I get it... It's IC, it's not against the rules. But take a step back and consider whether the fact that it falls within the rules means that it's actually within the scope of the game. Are you providing quality roleplay? No, you could have literally been replaced by an NPC at this point and no difference would have been made whatsoever. What about giving him a stern scolding? What about reminding him the process? So if he was slightly sleepy IRL and forgot to mention that he's carrying, that's reason enough to ruin his life? That's just a silly thing to propose.

 

Also he's clearly dressed like a guard, in front of the club DT... There was no threat to her life whatsoever. That excuse is just petty tbh.

Place owner and the other security guard were also there, It was obvious that I was a security.

[JustAnM43]

Just now, Glunar said:

Place owner and the other security guard were also there, It was obvious that I was a security.

As a security guard, you should know the rules without any issues. Letting a cop know you're armed is the most basic thing there is. It's an IC issue.

[Glunar]

1 minute ago, JustAnM43 said:

As a security guard, you should know the rules without any issues. Letting a cop know you're armed is the most basic thing there is. It's an IC issue.

I'm not saying there isn't any issue about me not mentioning being armed. The issue here is the fact that the officer didn't struggle or think twice while destroying another person's career in one blink. I tried apologise several times.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Glunar

[Dalekfodder]

I guess the point here to consider is simply the fact that this person lost the character development he has been building, and practically put on a freeze for 3 months (provided that the SHAFT violation isn't dropped) based on a tiny bit of technicality. The only real complaint I could make here is the lack of care and sympathy on officer's behalf from an OOC perspective. When you approach it with an utilitarian approach, there's nothing the officer (or the community overall) gained from this except another quick "zinger", as I like to call it. The same point could have been made with a slap on the wrist and a warning and it could have been built into something better, rather than the destructive outcome this interaction had. There's Officer's discretion on purpose.

10 minutes ago, Ears Up said:

IDK man imo many officers would definitely fuck someone over like that because of an infraction like that. It's a danger to the Officer. Especially in a city like LS where cop killings are common. Unfortunately it's an in character issue. The player should have looked into the whole SHAFT code thing.

 

As someone who has had a CCW on a previous character. It does say within the rulebook for having a CCW that you're legally obligated to immediately inform the officer that you're carrying a weapon.

I can't find myself agreeing with this on this instance because when you think about it, his intention wasn't ever to hide that he has a gun. He simply didn't know when to tell. I would reach out to claim that this is obvious to most that reads this. If he had taken any action to escalate this further rather than trying in his best to cooperate, your point would have made complete sense. And intention matters, a lot.

 

From an ideal point of view I will agree that there's no point in claiming what's realistic on how a person would react but it's in my firm belief that, we as players should contemplate the OOC consequences of our actions to a certain degree and display some empathy in sacrifice of realism to produce a fun environment for everyone.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Dalekfodder

[celestialrage]

This is a perfectly reasonable response. SHAFT code tells you that the first thing you do when you get pulled over is inform the cop that you're armed