Languages & Metagaming

[Trupiano]

I think there are a lot of issues surrounding language and metagaming, While Armenian is much more commonly spoken in LA then people believe (LA has the largest population of Armenians OUTSIDE of Armenia) You are right to assume that a majority of people would be unable to differentiate it from similar sounding languages, let alone be capable of identifying it as specifically Armenian. I don't think the issue is so much players identifying your ethnicity then it is players shifting everything they are doing based solely on what they see you saying IN that language. There is regular MGing and then there is internal MG, the act of shifting your mindset/interaction/actions based on what you perceive the outcome will be based on the knowledge you shouldn't have. Here's an example:

 

My buddies and I spot someone who we are interested in robbing, we express our desire to rob said individual to each other in our shared language (Armenian). The person might not turn around and act directly on what we said, but because they know they are going to get robbed OOCly they change what they are doing/planned to do entirely.

 

This is what frustrates me the most, not just because it ruins the RP for us. But also because it's so incredibly hard to prove, that a lot of players do it constantly. The only fix I can see is somehow making it so only players who have selected a language will be able to read what is being sent in THAT language, if that language is not selected by them as one of they're spoken languages the game won't print it out for them. But, I don't know if that's even possible and if it is it is unlikely easily done.

[arrdef]

@Five-oh If my character doesn't speak a lick of french and overhears french, he's going to be able to recognize a lot of words (even some insults and swear words!), because the english and french language share those words. Any kind of "script system" for languages would nullify these nuances.

Edited June 22, 2020 by arrdef

[Fireworks]

There's an open suggestion on a way to tackle this issue.

 

 

[WatchingEye]

2 minutes ago, bidi bidi bom bom said:

There's people who know up to 5 languages IRL, just be simply living in different environments as you're bound to catch on... doesn't mean a person needs to be 10/10 brainy. I'd like a system like this in game, but trying to find a midpoint is hard.

I agree with this.

[IrCam]

RPG elements honestly have to come in to something like this to make stuff work. There always needs to be an OOC influence on things to make sure IC mimics IRL to the best of it's ability. When creating a character I think you should have to select any other languages you'd know ICly and then provide a reason why. If deemed worthy enough it'd be accepted. It might create a lot more admin work yeah, but it's just one way to go about it.

 

Then when you see in chat it'd be like Firstname_Lastname says: KSFSDFASDGskfmsdjngsje afewausndasda sd. Or something along those lines. 

 

There could always be a way to learn these languages ICly too and with enough evidence be given OOC permission to a certain language. It'd bring RP in the sense people could literally RP teaching languages etc and all that good stuff.

 

Depending on how much you've learnt the amount you know of certain language could be like...Firstname_Lastname says: SAFanfasf and then I afsbfajfajsfasfda.

 

Or something along those lines. I get it would be almost RPGish, but sometimes those kind elements help in these kinds of situation.

[Five-oh]

2 minutes ago, arrdef said:

@Five-oh If my character doesn't speak a lick of french and overhears french, he's going to be able to recognize a lot of words (even some insults and swear words!), because the english and french language share those words. Any kind of "script system" for languages would nullify these nuances.

you're 100% right. although for me personally, it would be worth the trade off.

[sevo]

8 minutes ago, IrCam said:

RPG elements honestly have to come in to something like this to make stuff work. There always needs to be an OOC influence on things to make sure IC mimics IRL to the best of it's ability. When creating a character I think you should have to select any other languages you'd know ICly and then provide a reason why. If deemed worthy enough it'd be accepted. It might create a lot more admin work yeah, but it's just one way to go about it.

 

Then when you see in chat it'd be like Firstname_Lastname says: KSFSDFASDGskfmsdjngsje afewausndasda sd. Or something along those lines. 

 

There could always be a way to learn these languages ICly too and with enough evidence be given OOC permission to a certain language. It'd bring RP in the sense people could literally RP teaching languages etc and all that good stuff.

 

Depending on how much you've learnt the amount you know of certain language could be like...Firstname_Lastname says: SAFanfasf and then I afsbfajfajsfasfda.

 

Or something along those lines. I get it would be almost RPGish, but sometimes those kind elements help in these kinds of situation.

I understand where you are coming from with this suggestion, however I think this much depth and detail would prove to be superfluous. A simpler system, e.g. 'Samuel Lenero says some indiscernible words.' would be more than sufficient at tackling the presented problem of metagame. A system whereby players can 'adopt' new languages which they can understand seems ample. These requests could be approved by the support team in-game.

7 minutes ago, Five-oh said:

you're 100% right. although for me personally, it would be worth the trade off.

I agree with the above.

[Ketamine Kowboy]

45 minutes ago, Chef said:

It's a huge issue. Complex, ancient languages are being somehow understood by randoms with American surnames for example. Some languages are easier to pick out than others but c'mon. Italian Americans understanding Armenian? Give me a break.

Some people understand Armenian, Greek, Russian, French... languages which are completely different and all have different alphabets....

[mala]

It's an odd problem and certain people do MG or PG learning another language fluently & far too quickly. It's also hard to prove who's quietly MG'ing the info.

It gets more complex with certain languages that are part of the same group - for example someone who speaks Spanish could reasonably pick apart some Portuguese, Italian, or French. It'd be choppy, but they might understand some important words.  And someone who doesn't speak Spanish might still be able to say "It sounded like Spanish or something" or understand a few specific words.

The same carries over to the Slavic languages, though personally, they sound a lot more confusing, but they might be easier to tell apart if you grew up around them.

 

It's all a mess but I'm not sure a script can solve it without creating more problems. Just PM people you think are MG'ing what you're saying.

[Jura]

Only way to sort this is to report the person you believe to be MG'ing/PG'ing.