Making Gun Shot Wound roleplay more enjoyable - but how?

[JayO]

I joined FD based on how detailed and immersive the RP is. People take the piss in replying and that's what puts me off going to certain calls.

I remember on one scene asking an officer 4 times in a /do something. This took about 15 minutes just to get the injuries so I can treat them. 

 

I for one am not gonna push it sub par RP for the sake of some half arsed person not wanting to go along with RP, most if the time a situation THEY got themselves involved with. 

 

As for 'speeding' our /me's and /do's, what we ask are basics and making medical RP short is something I am against completely. For instance an MVA, paramedics dont spend two minutes and throw the person in the back to transport. They are there for a long time, assessing each victim and prioritizing. 

On another note, using these fancy machines is not a part of our training so we cant be expected to RP it. Our BLS training is severely out of date and needs a full revamp which I think is currently being worked on. 

 

What you see on scene is the bare minimal basics we are trained to use. Shortening that further just makes the RP bland and uninteresting. Sounds like people are asking for sub par RP to save a bit of time which is a joke. We should be promoting RP, not minimizing it.

Edited June 2, 2019 by JayO

[Fraggloid]

12 minutes ago, JayO said:

I joined FD based on how detailed and immersive the RP is. People take the piss in replying and that's what puts me off going to certain calls.

 

I for one am not gonna push it sub par RP for the sake of some half arsed person not wanting to go along with RP.

 

What you see on scene is the bare minimal basics we are trained to use. Shortening that further just makes the RP bland and uninteresting.

Quoted for truth.

 

Should we ask PD to stop roleplaying arrests fully, and just use commands to drag people into cells?

Should we ask mechanics to use script commands and /me paints the car?

No, we expect everyone to RP to their fullest at all times. Asking one person to not do that defeats the point of a roleplay server. 

 

The issue is the sheer volume of shooting callouts we recieve. Since this thread was posted, there have been what, 6 shooting calls? And that happens EVERY day. We don't have the manpower, the willpower, or the desire to deal with that number of calls in such a short time, when the RP is exactly the same every single time. There are more shootings in GTAW's LS, with a population of a few thousand - and a few hundred at any one time - than there are in most cities in real life, with populations of millions. This is wrong for a server that's meant to be about heavy roleplay, and we need stricter enforcement of fear to reduce that number.

Here are some of my thoughts for 

• If a non-PD player opens fire without first being fired upon/having their life threatened, they are automatically CKed upon death in that scenario.
• If a player is lawfully killed by PD, they risk a CK.
• If a player is lawfully killed by PD with more than, say, 5 cops present, they're force CKed.
• A CK must be approved by staff on a PD/FD member who is killed during a shootout.

I feel these points will even the balance of people simply shooting their way out of arrests, will reduce the number of shootings taking place, and will prevent PD and FD taking disproportionate amounts of CKs - We spend a LOT of time working our way into the factions, and a lot of OOC effort goes into our applications, interviews, and trainings. For us to be liable to being targeted at random for 'being in the wrong place' is wrong. There is NO reason to shoot at on-duty FD members, and shooting at a cop has grave circumstances IRL - ones that aren't able to be enacted in-game, such as nearby CCTV, witnesses (there'd be millions of people in LS, not a few hundred), etcetera.

[1357]

3 hours ago, Fraggloid said:

Quoted for truth.

 

Should we ask PD to stop roleplaying arrests fully, and just use commands to drag people into cells?

Should we ask mechanics to use script commands and /me paints the car?

No, we expect everyone to RP to their fullest at all times. Asking one person to not do that defeats the point of a roleplay server. 

 

The issue is the sheer volume of shooting callouts we recieve. Since this thread was posted, there have been what, 6 shooting calls? And that happens EVERY day. We don't have the manpower, the willpower, or the desire to deal with that number of calls in such a short time, when the RP is exactly the same every single time. There are more shootings in GTAW's LS, with a population of a few thousand - and a few hundred at any one time - than there are in most cities in real life, with populations of millions. This is wrong for a server that's meant to be about heavy roleplay, and we need stricter enforcement of fear to reduce that number.

Here are some of my thoughts for 

• If a non-PD player opens fire without first being fired upon/having their life threatened, they are automatically CKed upon death in that scenario.
• If a player is lawfully killed by PD, they risk a CK.
• If a player is lawfully killed by PD with more than, say, 5 cops present, they're force CKed.
• A CK must be approved by staff on a PD/FD member who is killed during a shootout.

I feel these points will even the balance of people simply shooting their way out of arrests, will reduce the number of shootings taking place, and will prevent PD and FD taking disproportionate amounts of CKs - We spend a LOT of time working our way into the factions, and a lot of OOC effort goes into our applications, interviews, and trainings. For us to be liable to being targeted at random for 'being in the wrong place' is wrong. There is NO reason to shoot at on-duty FD members, and shooting at a cop has grave circumstances IRL - ones that aren't able to be enacted in-game, such as nearby CCTV, witnesses (there'd be millions of people in LS, not a few hundred), etcetera.

This topic goes hand in hand with one i have created myself recently this month discussing CK's and not only do i agree but glad to see others who somewhat do as well. I can easily imagine how dull and mind numbing paramedic role play must be, is a reason why this faction specifically has always been undermanned.. and a few examples i can provide..

 

1. It seems like /damages(?) is hardly used as a reference point for role play or isn't enforced.. is irrelevant and instead left up to the player to decide where their person was hit which is counter intuitive to why the system should have been made in the first place.. so if a player is shot in the arm they role play being shot in the head with no pulse and as a result die to escape IC punishment. There is a similar problem with PD and criminals who get into a full fledged shoot outs so they don't have to spend hours and face other consequences that pertains to criminal role play. Would you rather get into an action packed shoot out with a dozen LEO and/or SWAT and die or surrender.. or live and try to beat your case? 

• Elaborating further with the text in bold.. while it is off topic i also feel that police shouldn't be able to dictate times. Lawyers and Judges should be more influential in criminal cases and will make a lot more sense if in the future forced life sentences are introduced with a prison interior. 

1. Injured players probably do not feel like a priority and it makes sense because they aren't.. I already know 9 times out of 10 when you respond to one of these calls.. the opposing player role plays dead.. over time it becomes so repetitious and mind numbing that it's not enjoyable and instead feels more like a chore.. for the EMS and the player in critical state because that's just how it is with PK's. It practically encourages this kind of player behavior. Responding to calls and saving someones life should feel rewarding for both sides, but right now that's hardly a variable when most players practically suicide to avoid otherwise useless RP and IC punishment and consequence at any given chance.

You see people denying that encouraging CK's would provide more depth to role play but this is just another example of so. Right now everyone has infinite lives which encourages brash decision making with extremely minor consequence that follows along with it.. i can only assume there will be changes soon with this.. role play would be a lot more interesting and right now how it is.. it's not interesting and this is a clear example of a system like PK affecting other aspects of role play negatively.

 

It's not as perfect as some people claim it to be.

[Cobra]

When the discussion has progressed some more, and I can find a moment to have a break (and no doubt enjoy some fruit on the sunny grass of some park somewhere), I will give my views on the matter via phone as the points raised have brought to me possible solutions from all 3 parties (FD, PD, patients). 

 

Thank you for discussing so far. ?

[Keane]

My first post was intentionally short so I could gauge other's opinions. I've admittedly just skimmed over the replies since then so I won't be specifically responding to anyone's posts. This point was the main one that I wanted to bring up.

I'll bring up a term that isn't used commonly, but it is the best way to describe one of the main issues. Everyone who has spent more than five minutes on an RP server knows what a robocop is and has probably dealt with one. What people don't complain about are robomedics. Those exist on all RP servers too but due to the fact that factions that provide medical roleplay are typically smaller and the time spent around them is shorter, they're noticed and complained about less.

What is a robomedic? It's a bit like a robocop. They show up on scene, do their job and then move off to the next call. They do what I like to call roleplaying "at" someone rather than roleplaying "with" someone. They get tunnel vision and focus on rewording their handbook above all else. How many times have you seen someone get treated initially by the LSPD, only to have the LSFD member repeat the exact same treatment when they showed up? How many scenes have you had where the LSFD member says nothing more than "Hi PD", "What's their pulse?" and "We're taking them to X Hospital?". 

 

Roleplay requires everyone involved to participate. If one party doesn't want to participate, it becomes less enjoyable for everyone else involved. Everyone is blaming the patient here but if their only experience is typing /do Yes/no or typing a random number for a pulse or breathing rate they don't fully understand, there's no strong reason outside of server rules for them to fully participate. This makes the responding medic frustrated and frustration usually leads to someone acting differently in-game. Is this the LSFD's fault as a whole? No. It's the fault of the individual that doesn't want to roleplay in the first place and the medic that decides to roleplay at them instead of with them.

 

How can we fix this? A lot can be done without making a report and have an admin remind the person to roleplay every thirty seconds. Both the LSFD and LSPD have to take the initiative here to put roleplay first and their IC function on a scene second. If the patient and the rest of the people on the scene see more roleplay involved, they'll be encouraged to do the same. The LSPD can do a lot more than standing around without typing any RP lines outside of "Hurry up FD" or "Move back or I'll arrest you". The LSFD can do a lot more than reword a handbook. The patient can take the initiative to be unique rather than roleplaying unconscious due to a stubbed toe. 

 

When I used to do medical roleplay, I made sure to show the IC sense of urgency through roleplay rather than actually rushing things. Something like dropping a piece of equipment on the ground shows urgency and adds variety to the scene while not extending it by five minutes. I'd usually ask whoever is on scene if they did any treatment, was the patient unconscious at any point, what are the injuries etc. This gives other people some involvement outside of just reading what's going on. Then comes the most important part of roleplaying WITH the patient rather than AT the patient. I'd usually ask in /do if the patient is unconscious or not. If the patient is conscious, you can have a conversation with them. It provides them with more to respond to than medical terms they are unlikely to understand. I started doing medical roleplay back in 2013 so I have a great understanding of most of the terms. But your average player will not. Medical roleplay has to be simplified to cater to this.

The suggestion I'm trying to get across isn't about rushing scenes. It's more about finding a balance between typing 15 lines to set up an IV or taking three lines to do the same thing. If a person wants to know the exact dosage down to the milligram they'll ask. 99% of players just want to know the result of the medical treatment that was done. I've seen an attitude on another server where medics act extremely selfishly. It's "their" roleplay that you're ruining by asking them to shorten it. If you think you typing a book to describe one part of the treatment is more important than providing an enjoyable experience for the other players involved, then this isn't the right server for you. I just hope the same attitude isn't present here. I'm glad I haven't seen it yet.

 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Keane

[Tseard]

13 hours ago, Duke said:

It does depend on how many officers there are, but what I said isn't untrue. Everything I described would happen in real life, it does happen in real life, whether you have the manpower to replicate that in game is another story. 

 

I'll say one thing, this isn't Iraq or Afghanistan, to say officers simply carry out over-watch duties like there's hostiles engaging with you in guerrilla warfare and we're some type of combat medic is insane. 

 

Yes, officers provide medical treatment to members of the public, but a part from that and crowd control it's all they do at scenes in-game and it shouldn't be. There's no peripheral Roleplay regarding the fact they just shot a member of the public. information should at-least be gathered to be investigated a later time, such as what small police forces do in the U.S. Incident logs are set up and the supervisor notes down who shot, how many rounds they shot and so on for accountability purposes and future investigations into the shooting. 

 

When the medics are gone what do you do? You just leave and that shouldn't be the case, you need to properly RP shootings instead of getting antsy at FD for not bagging and tagging them quick enough. 

 

It depends on the circumstances but usually when someone is shot, there is someone providing backup by keeping guard on the scene, not only for the safety of the officers but also for the LSFD and the person who is being treated. There have been occasions where officers and LSFD personnel got shot at when they are dealing with the aftermath of a scene. This is something that happens on the server and we have to react at that, at that time, we can not simply ignore it and keep doing what we were doing. 

 

It is not unrealistic for officers to provide overwatch on a scene when a shooting has just occurred, especially in gang-infested areas. That does not have to do anything with Iraq or Afghanistan. We adjust to how the scene unfolds and plays out and take the dangers and risks into account when dealing with this even if this means armed overwatch is needed. You can all battle that OOCly over the forum that it is not right but from an IC standpoint these people guard their colleagues and the public in order to prevent more casualties. 

There is no division that currently handles officer-involved shootings, simply because it takes manpower and time to do this and it needs to be done with great care. If an officer has gunned down a civilian and people feel like it has unlawful, they can always submit an IA report and it will be investigated. If every OIS is being investigated, then people should be hired solely to investigate that due to the rate of when shootings happen.

 

Back to the topic. Care is being given by officers until LSFD takes over and do their profession, they are more specialized and it's their jurisdiction to do so.  

[Fraggloid]

45 minutes ago, Keane said:

Removed for post size

All of your points? We do that already. The only time I ever see robomedic RP is when the injured player simply can't be bothered to roleplay, or doesnt answer us - and that happens daily. People think that they can just afk while we patch them up, and that's not true. the vast majority of FD members are very good roleplayers who do their best on scenes to provide a positive experience for all those involved, as well as a balance between detail (to satisfy our nerdisms) and speed (to satisfy the average player who couldn't give a shit and just wants a revive and a hospital trip). As I said previously: ILS, AKA IV treatments, is used so rarely it's a non-factor. The only time it's ever used is if the person is literally dying and the IV going in now would stop that. Otherwise it's generally safer to load them up and transport them to hospital - which, funnily enough, suits most people's desires for fast, get-it-over-with RP. 

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: getting 6+ GSW calls a night is not and will not be fun and interesting in the current level of RP these scenes and the average players involved provide. Less, better quality calls is the only solution; that means less shootings, and in order to have less shootings, you need graver consequences for initiating them.

[JayO]

As for this robomedic statement, we turn up on scene and see what PD have done initially for treatment and take it from there. We do NOT care what happened on the scene or who shot who and so on. Our only priority Is the patient/s at hand and that alone. Do you want us to have a fully blown conversation with all the PD while on scene? No, that takes up time for all of us and the patient themselves. I get on scene ask PD what we have and say hello, I'm not gonna fanny around and talk about what I've had for tea. 

 

The whole point of this is to make things quicker from the sounds of it and it's a complete joke. Promote RP, not diminish it.

[Duke]

2 hours ago, Keane said:

Big quote

 

I'll take your robomedic comments on board, I had a nice scene yesterday with PD when I taught them how to use a tow truck to flip a rolled-over SUV.

 

The only thing with having a conversation with someone, they can barely handle reading RP at a scene, nevermind replying to dialogue and roleplay. 

 

Whilst conversing with patients is encouraged, even from a medical stand point keeping a patient engaged in conversation is widely beneficial, it doesn't seem possible in game. 

 

As for the detailed RP, it's nice to see, it just takes skill to implement it in your roleplay whilst keeping the scene flowing as to not slow the roleplay down. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by Duke

[JayO]

27 minutes ago, Duke said:

I'll take your robomedic comments on board, I had a nice scene yesterday with PD when I taught them how to use a tow truck to flip a rolled-over SUV.

 

The only thing with having a conversation with someone, they can barely handle reading RP at a scene, nevermind replying to dialogue and roleplay. 

 

Whilst conversing with patients is encouraged, even from a medical stand point keeping a patient engaged in conversation is widely beneficial, it doesn't seem possible in game. 

 

As for the detailed RP, it's nice to see, it just takes skill to implement it in your roleplay whilst keeping the scene flowing as to not slow the roleplay down. 

Our main issue here is people not responding to us. Time and time again people just either ignore us or tab out. When they do reply, we've asked them at least 4 times the same question. 

 

As I stated earlier, the RP you see on scene from us is the BASICS, bare minimal. I would love to go into a lot more detail but other people don't like waiting around which is stupid in itself seen as they are here on a 'Heavy' RP server.

 

I would love to see you guys handle an evening shift at FD where you are inundated with 10+ GSW calls a night, along with the lack of responses and poor RP we see. Only then would people actually understand our point here. 

 

At this point in time, peoples perspective towards FD RP is completely delusional. We're trying to promote RP with detail and people are seeming to want to shoot us down for it. There's no skimming out details in medical RP, medicine is a complicated subject for a reason, there's LOTS of what may seem 'minor' details involved that are actually critical in stabilizing a patient. 

 

Maybe people should learn a thing or two from FD RP and improve their own RP first.

Edited June 3, 2019 by JayO