Characters should have more abilities to directly and quickly influence government and hold LEO's accountable.

[eTaylor]

1 minute ago, OkLibrarian said:

This "PKs aren't real deaths" is a terrible argument anyway. As long as you have cops, medics and coroners responding you can't then expect them to pretend the scene didn't happen. What if I spend half my gta time at a murder scene? Am I suddenly supposed to forget about it because it wasn't a real death? Go home and say nothing happened on patrol? 

 

No, PKs are part of the crime stats. You don't get to invalidate the RP of dozens of people because it doesn't fit your agenda.

I’m yet to meet someone who roleplay every single death in either PD or SD. But I suppose in general it’s dependent on who you ask. I personally don’t really value PKs, and as far as the dead go I never roleplay it as the character but just “an officer” or “a suspect” and so forth. I’m not going to roleplay a buddy dying over and over again

[OkLibrarian]

13 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

I’m yet to meet someone who roleplay every single death in either PD or SD. But I suppose in general it’s dependent on who you ask. I personally don’t really value PKs, and as far as the dead go I never roleplay it as the character but just “an officer” or “a suspect” and so forth. I’m not going to roleplay a buddy dying over and over again

That's not what I'm saying. Of course you don't RP Bob dying every time, but your character still saw someone die. You can't pretend the death didn't happen when you spent 1 hour on the scene. 

[eTaylor]

1 minute ago, OkLibrarian said:

That's not what I'm saying. Of course you don't RP Bob dying every time, but your character still saw someone die. You can't pretend the death didn't happen when you spent 1 hour on the scene. 

Sure you can. The high death ratio isn’t something that’s roleplayed. It’s consciously ignored by everyone. You don’t go to a coffee shop on your break talking about the 30 people who died on your shift. You just had a few stops and a few scenes here and there, maybe you elude to the chaos in the jungle but other than that it’s non existent. And why would you want it any other way? We’re all roleplaying in different ways at different depths, most of us take the game with a grain of salt. We accept that the deaths we see most frequently are part of this being a video game. We try to tell a story based in a real world setting as opposed to the crazy crack cocaine realm we have. I think that’s what sets us apart. You can go two ways, embrace the GTA matrix and turn into NGRP or anchor yourself trying the opposite.  

[Amellis]

4 hours ago, Invictus said:

we need more bureaucracy and politics rped in game.

There aren't that many players interested in RPing that and the few who do enjoy it are overwhelmed by the requests of... Hundreds of people?

It's also why you always see the same 3-4 lawyers in court cases. Not only do you have to really want to do it to stick around for long, but the entry barrier is one of the highest.

 

1 hour ago, sky~ said:

I usually don't really chime in on these things, however, I do wonder, which tools are exactly missing which allows you to investigate someone or something properly?

 

If there are no witnesses you got away, plain and simple. Why do you think the meta is all black, mask and gloves?

We can't RP face recognition but we can get descriptions. There are barely any places with CCTV (which is still kinda useless when a mask is on) and the few that have them... Well. You need an admin to get it, might take time, but the admin needs cooperation from the other party too.

We CAN RP fingerprints if you have the appropriate units (qualified) to gather them, but if they haven't been put to your name beforehand they're worthless.

 

Your phones (smartphones only) can only be tracked by a select few and with very good reason (a.k.a. being already certain that you've done something wrong). Corpses disappear (and sometimes desync and become invisible), injuries can be wiped clean with /changechar, clothes can be swapped instantly anywhere and never get bloody...

 

Plates are hard to read unless you're within like 10 meters, basing an investigation out of "It was a black four-door Primo" because there's only one car spawned matching that description is metagamey af and doesn't really make much sense. Realistically speaking there'd be dozens of cars like that and having no plates (that you can now remove temporarily) makes it a weak lead. That is ignoring the fact that you can /vpark and that marks the end of it.

 

Just to name a few...

Those are only to name a few.

[Invictus]

6 minutes ago, Amellis said:

Why do you think the meta is all black, mask and gloves?

 

rate my fit

 

[OkLibrarian]

19 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

Sure you can. The high death ratio isn’t something that’s roleplayed. It’s consciously ignored by everyone. You don’t go to a coffee shop on your break talking about the 30 people who died on your shift. You just had a few stops and a few scenes here and there, maybe you elude to the chaos in the jungle but other than that it’s non existent. And why would you want it any other way? We’re all roleplaying in different ways at different depths, most of us take the game with a grain of salt. We accept that the deaths we see most frequently are part of this being a video game. We try to tell a story based in a real world setting as opposed to the crazy crack cocaine realm we have. I think that’s what sets us apart. You can go two ways, embrace the GTA matrix and turn into NGRP or anchor yourself trying the opposite.  

Yeah, sorry, but that's straight up bad roleplay. Going " LALALALA " and ignoring roleplay you don't like is basically mixing OOC and IC. If you make a mistake on those PK murders you get fired, but suddenly you're supposed to ignore them when the shift's over? Not to mention this voids most of your shift. If I patrol 4 hours and 3 hours get voided why am I even logging in at that point?

It's not my fault 30 murders happened during my shift, and I sure as hell am not going to pretend they didn't. It's not my job to make the server realistic, that's supposedly the admins/LFM/IFM's job. I simply react to what happens around me.

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by OkLibrarian

[pateuvasiliu]

28 minutes ago, eTaylor said:

The high death ratio isn’t something that’s roleplayed. It’s consciously ignored by everyone.

That's... a complete headcanon? DMEC has released official stats in a blog post with the homicide count last year, so clearly they're not ignored. And people call 911 when someone gets shot/killed so clearly that's not ignored. 

 

Don't do that. You can't void events just because you don't like them. That's something an admin does and even then I've seen admins NOT void scenes where clear rulebreaking happened, so where'd you get the idea that you're allowed to self void scenes nilly willy?

You have rules saying you're not allowed to go back on duty if you were shot for one hour and to RP injuries, if PKs don't count why would this rule even exist? What am I healing from, a ghost shooting me? I'm in the hospital recovering because I got shot by a criminal who PKed. I can't just NOT RP that, it's literally against the rules.

Edited September 26, 2023 by pateuvasiliu

[Barbary]

I'm going to chime in here about something that happened yesterday that I'm still absolutely tilted about.

There was an anti-IMEX protest going on at Signal Street. It had been a thing that was occurring on and off for the past few weeks, and we'd gotten reports that there were trucks blocking the roads. We arrived, went back and forth with the protest line, then pulled back to Davis Sheriff's Station so we could regroup and organize a coordinated response. We had probably about 16 Deputies locked, loaded, getting set up in riot gear. We were gonna make an actual Goddamn RP scene out of this, because let's be honest, how many times on this server do we have a protest that's anything more than three guys holding up posters on the side of the road?

 

And then a bunch of people start a massive shootout across the street from the station with automatic weapons. Which meant that all of us had to, instead of go engage the protestors and get involved in a genuinely unique RP scene, whip out our guns and deal with the LITERAL FUCKING GANG WAR on our doorstep.

 

Mind you, at the same time, someone decided to also shoot up the fucking cookout on Atlee Street! So that's two mass shootings in the span of 10 minutes!

 

We had to have 10 Deputies sit on their asses, waiting to get cleared for a good half-hour because we had opened fire. Which meant that instead of being able to do something else, something actually fun and entertaining for I'd imagine those at the protest, we got dragged into yet another blockwipe. I had to stop myself from logging off from the sheer demoralization, and every Deputy who was in the channel I was in was also either depressed or pissed off.

 

So yes, OP, we try to respond to non-shootings. We fucking prefer them. But when people start letting loose with Uzis, AKs and I dunno what else outside of a marked Sheriff's Station for God knows why, I don't know what to tell you anymore.

 

Shit's fucked.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Barbary

[ZaE]

1 hour ago, pateuvasiliu said:

they're not ignored

Yeah they are who cares about the homicide count in a video game. (let alone a gta roleplay server.)

Edited September 26, 2023 by ZaE

[Keane]

2 hours ago, Vash Baldeus said:

The bigger issue is that some cops are not held accountable to their actions, even if you go the IC route of IA/Lawsuit it usually stalled and goes nowhere due to the drag out of the situation over forums in case of a lawsuit and a cookie cutter reply from IA where almost no action was taken against a Deputy or an Officer for doing something illegal or harming to the victim or suspect.

I'm pretty qualified to answer here because I oversaw LSSD IA for quite some time, both as the Undersheriff and as a Division Chief. I have not been in any LEO factions for over a year though, so this post does not reflect current practice in any LEO factions.

The purpose of IA isn't to punish cops. If it is set up correctly, it's a separate part of the faction that is there to strictly investigate complaints and form a conclusion. Once that conclusion is formed, the investigators move on. It's then up to the department's leaders and lawyers to figure out what to do when the investigation is concluded. The faction leaders and lawyers want to protect their faction as best as possible from lawsuits, so it's in their best interest to have an accurate investigation. The more information they have, the better. In my case, the policy was to attempt to settle out of court by giving a generous offer if it was found the deputy did wrong. There was only one case during my time overseeing IA of someone that refused the offer we sent back when the deputy was at fault and wanted to take it to court for publicity. This case was then lost in court so they missed out. It was in our interest as a leadership team from an IC perspective to keep the department out of court, and from an OOC perspective we wanted to help players avoid court if possible.

In my own experience, the vast majority of IA cases came from people who, at the time, did not have a good understanding of why a deputy was doing what they were doing. This could be due to a lack of knowledge of US law or due to a lack of knowledge on department policy. Other times it came from people who didn't have enough context to see what's going on, for example deputies being aggressive when issuing orders to disperse when a shooting just happened. Because of this, many people make a report to IA, IA investigates, faction leaders conclude that the actions of the deputies at the time was reasonable given the circumstances and then the person making the report isn't happy. This makes them complain to other people that IA doesn't do it's job. 

There's a few options if an IA report doesn't go your way. The courts are probably the best bet. Sure, it can take months to conclude a case but it's the fairest way of solving an issue. I'd only recommend going to court if you have a strong case though and IA actually messed up, and not just because you disagree with the decision. You could also go to the faction leaders themselves for clarification. Or, in the case of you thinking there is OOC issues, LFM can investigate. 

Government RP is gaining some momentum following the mayoral election so there's plenty of avenues there. Politicians can put pressure on departments to be stricter. After all, they control the budget of these factions. Laws could be proposed that promote transparency more in line with how it currently is in California. Perhaps a government department could be created and funded to oversee LEO agencies, much like LA in real life. These are things that could have happened before, but there was a never a push from them. I might be biased because I've been heavily involved with IA on the cop side for so long, but my own theory is that IA in the current factions have typically done a good job at investigating and coming up with fair conclusions over the years. There will always be exceptions where people should have been punished and got away with it instead, but that can be said for every single system in the world.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Keane