FLD is broken.

[Kel Init]

8 minutes ago, Undercontrol said:

Guarantee you if you were to get a CCW right now with no questions asked you'd close this thread within an instant LOL.

 

There's people who got 300 points - 400 points - 600 points per month.

 

There's people who go out of their way to actually allow other people to message them privately cause they are incapable of posting a passport photo(Which by the way isn't a requirement)

 

There's people who proactively help & have an open approach on it, and immediately take & handle apps. 

 

I've seen people first hand who've either just joined the server or have been on the server ace the exam without any fails or difficulties. It is quite literally an open book exam. Refer to the shaft code & penal code.

 

You do not need a gun to roleplay a civilian...

 

 

I have my CCW. PF reissuance would be nice, but I'd keep the thread open 😄

[LennyVL]

Allow me to bring up some points:

• It's hard to find people for FLD. It's fun in the beginning but becomes a drag very quickly as it's a purely administrative job with no reward, a very high workload and a lot of repetition. People tend to leave very quickly or become inactive after a few months. The only things keeping us going are the few people who keep their interest for FLD for a very long time (mvp's) and the regular influx of probationary officers who we can convince to join FLD for a few months until they get tired of it. It's a problem that's always been there and probably always will be...
• The above applies too for people in higher positions which also affects for example, the rewriting of the CCW exam. We've been meaning to do it for a long time, but it's summer which means most of us are out having a good time, are busy or otherwise. Revising the exam is a task that would take quite a bit of time to do properly and nobody really feels like it when they just got home from work or are about to head out for a good time in this weather. And since it's hard to find people for FLD, it's also hard to regularly cycle the supervisory team within FLD.
• The argument that "PF abuse is already super high" and that we should relax our application process for that reason is bullshit. At that point you might as well just remove the entire system and allow everyone to /getgun. The last you want to do is allow the abuse to rise up even higher than it already is.
• Lastly, the FLD website being down is a huge issue, yeah. But the website is hosted by Skent who has given up on PD and GTA World all together long ago (his last post on the LSPD forums was literally almost a year ago) but there's literally nobody else that's willing to develop a website and maintain it outside of maybe GTA:W's own web developers but they have a high workload too. (Absolutely no blame to Skent btw, I know he's busy IRL and all)

 

I literally cannot agree more that the entire process behind firearm licenses needs a HUGE refactor but unfortunately there's just not many people that are willing to spend time doing that... a proper system would have to be thought out from scratch, a new portal developed and people found to maintain it.

 

EDIT: I'd like to note that there are people within FLD who are spending crazy amounts of their own time handling applications et cetera who I can't thank enough. Let's not forget them.

Edited September 3, 2023 by LennyVL

[Kel Init]

48 minutes ago, LennyVL said:

Allow me to bring up some points:

• It's hard to find people for FLD. It's fun in the beginning but becomes a drag very quickly as it's a purely administrative job with no reward, a very high workload and a lot of repetition. People tend to leave very quickly or become inactive after a few months. The only things keeping us going are the few people who keep their interest for FLD for a very long time (mvp's) and the regular influx of probationary officers who we can convince to join FLD for a few months until they get tired of it. It's a problem that's always been there and probably always will be...
• The above applies too for people in higher positions which also affects for example, the rewriting of the CCW exam. We've been meaning to do it for a long time, but it's summer which means most of us are out having a good time, are busy or otherwise. Revising the exam is a task that would take quite a bit of time to do properly and nobody really feels like it when they just got home from work or are about to head out for a good time in this weather. And since it's hard to find people for FLD, it's also hard to regularly cycle the supervisory team within FLD.
• The argument that "PF abuse is already super high" and that we should relax our application process for that reason is bullshit. At that point you might as well just remove the entire system and allow everyone to /getgun. The last you want to do is allow the abuse to rise up even higher than it already is.
• Lastly, the FLD website being down is a huge issue, yeah. But the website is hosted by Skent who has given up on PD and GTA World all together long ago (his last post on the LSPD forums was literally almost a year ago) but there's literally nobody else that's willing to develop a website and maintain it outside of maybe GTA:W's own web developers but they have a high workload too. (Absolutely no blame to Skent btw, I know he's busy IRL and all)

 

I literally cannot agree more that the entire process behind firearm licenses needs a HUGE refactor but unfortunately there's just not many people that are willing to spend time doing that... a proper system would have to be thought out from scratch, a new portal developed and people found to maintain it.

 

EDIT: I'd like to note that there are people within FLD who are spending crazy amounts of their own time handling applications et cetera who I can't thank enough. Let's not forget them.

I understand and appreciate all of these points - I never said 'PF abuse was super high', but I do believe the current system is open to persistent abuse from people who are half smart about it. I don't think a strict automated process (with SOME human oversight) would be the worst idea, but what would be your idea of a better system?

(I'm not asking you to do it, just curious what you'd imagine in a perfect world!)

[LennyVL]

In my eyes, the ideal scenario would be a FLD portal hosted, developed and maintained by GTA world rather than by a player. This makes it much more reliable and not prone to the player losing interest and basically abandoning the website. The entire process would have to be redefined and automated mostly. Say the FLD website could be integrated with GTA world’s database, licenses could literally be 99% automated as all the standard checks could be performed automatically using information from that database. All that would have to be (potentially) manually checked is criminal record and administrative record, and even that could be displayed right there for the handling officer to quickly approve or deny within a second. For GC, CCW and renewals the justification would also need to be checked, but if all the basic checks are handled automatically then this is done within a minute. This would also leave very little room for player error (entering wrong age etc.) again drastically lowering handling time.

 

This would also solve the understaffing issue as applications would take drastically less time to review and thus we wouldn’t need as much staff to handle the workload.

 

Then again, this is all in an ideal world… we would need to find people to rethink the procedures, develop the portal and Nervous would probably have to sign off on using GTA world web developers etc.

[Chaozuo]

2 hours ago, Jaz said:

You do not need a gun to roleplay a civilian...

This argument is null and void when you consider the quantity of the server who work in security or LEO agencies and still rely on FLD for issuance of various licenses accordingly.

 

Anyone who thinks that the FLD system isn't long overdue an overhaul is a joke. I've had no issue with CCW or GC exams nor the wait times for PF applications, Although the wording is difficult at times. (its very easy to say how easy the CCW exam is to complete when you have the answers).

 

FLD right now works, It just doesn't work very well. That's the main point here and if you ask anyone who actively has to deal with FLD regularly on the side of the civ in comparison to those who actually work for FLD, You'll see that everyone says the same thing. Its great to have people reviewing things essentially for free, And nobody's saying that the people reviewing should be stressed and getting these apps thrown through asap. However having something to streamline the process in comparison to what we have now isn't a negative thing, It'd positively impact both the players on the civ side and those who work for FLD.

 

If you believe honestly and truly that FLD is 10/10 great and there's nothing wrong/ no room for improvement,  You're smoking harder drugs that I am. 

[Late]

Why are people in the PD getting offended and upset that we're asking for a different system?  No one is suggesting you don't put effort into processing the application, but you're defending a system that isn't fit for purpose rather than coming to the conclusion "hmm, this does suck, it does take a lot of time and effort, maybe we could have a better system that makes everyones lives easier."

 

Sure the exam isn't inherently hard, but it's cumbersome and time consuming for a game. I assume very few people ENJOY logging onto your FLD website, writing an application and trying to justify why their character should even own a gun, making up false scenarios and then stressing if it'll get accepted. Very few people enjoy doing this after a long hard day of work/school etc. Most people just want to log on and play the game, not jump through hoops for something so basic and let's be honest, i'm going to make an assumption here, i'm sure you guys in FLD would much prefer being IN GAME also! 

 

We shouldn't derail this and make this thread and make it about should civilians have guns. We live in a Republican run state with a crime level higher than Haiti and South Africa. Realistically, we'd be allowed to open carry our AR15's like in Texas or Montana... but this is a whole different argument. 


 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Late

[Martyn]

11 minutes ago, Late said:

Why are people in the PD getting offended and upset that we're asking for a different system?  No one is suggesting you don't put effort into processing the application, but you're defending a system that isn't fit for purpose rather than coming to the conclusion "hmm, this does suck, it does take a lot of time and effort, maybe we could have a better system that makes everyones lives easier."

 

Sure the exam isn't inherently hard, but it's cumbersome and time consuming for a game. I assume very few people ENJOY logging onto your FLD website, writing an application and trying to justify why their character should even own a gun, making up false scenarios and then stressing if it'll get accepted. Very few people enjoy doing this after a long hard day of work/school etc. Most people just want to log on and play the game, not jump through hoops for something so basic and let's be honest, i'm going to make an assumption here, i'm sure you guys in FLD would much prefer being IN GAME also! 

 

We shouldn't derail this and make this thread and make it about should civilians have guns. We live in a Republican run state with a crime level higher than Haiti and South Africa. Realistically, we'd be allowed to open carry our AR15's like in Texas or Montana... but this is a whole different argument. 


 

 

As always, something about a nail and a hammer... It's honestly baffling and rather telling to me you have certain people shilling on this thread claiming you don't need a certain thing to roleplay. Well you're right, you don't. But it sure does make said players experience more fun and if they're not breaking server rules its absolutely none of your business why and what they want to do with their legal firearms. It's America, people own guns just to own guns. People have concealed carry licenses just because they feel more comfortable with a firearm on them despite having no intend to maliciously use it. This is the American mindset and we roleplay in America. Stop ruining shit for other players, it's next level cringe.

 

CCW exam is ridiculous and you can tell whoever made this up ran out of shitty questions to ask you since it legitimately starts asking you questions in relation to regulations that have absolutely NOTHING to do with CONCEALED CARRY. It's just a hostile exam created to make people fail.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Martyn

[Kel Init]

2 hours ago, LennyVL said:

In my eyes, the ideal scenario would be a FLD portal hosted, developed and maintained by GTA world rather than by a player. This makes it much more reliable and not prone to the player losing interest and basically abandoning the website. The entire process would have to be redefined and automated mostly. Say the FLD website could be integrated with GTA world’s database, licenses could literally be 99% automated as all the standard checks could be performed automatically using information from that database. All that would have to be (potentially) manually checked is criminal record and administrative record, and even that could be displayed right there for the handling officer to quickly approve or deny within a second. For GC, CCW and renewals the justification would also need to be checked, but if all the basic checks are handled automatically then this is done within a minute. This would also leave very little room for player error (entering wrong age etc.) again drastically lowering handling time.

 

This would also solve the understaffing issue as applications would take drastically less time to review and thus we wouldn’t need as much staff to handle the workload.

 

Then again, this is all in an ideal world… we would need to find people to rethink the procedures, develop the portal and Nervous would probably have to sign off on using GTA world web developers etc.

@Nervous could we look into a system like this? The current system is not working 😟

[Reece?]

Just to chime in, the exam is currently being rewritten.

[Kel Init]

9 minutes ago, Reece? said:

Just to chime in, the exam is currently being rewritten.

Appreciate that, been hearing it a long time though 😞