Why is LCN RP so stigmatized?

[el capo]

23 minutes ago, NickyW said:

 

 

I don't hate you, at all.

 

In fact, I think it's sort of concerning that you're getting so spun up and I'd advise you to take a step back and maybe go for a walk or something. I can't imagine it's healthy to get so upset about a video game that you start hurling insults and taking things personally.

 

But--you want to talk about facts, so let's do that real quick. Let's talk about facts.

 

1. "LCN barely exists in Califas (whatever that means), whilst FAIM dominates NorCal and has reach in Central and some SoCal Counties"

 

This is...not really accurate at all. FAIM is nearly dead in in general, let alone in California. There's a small presence in the East-Bay, but it otherwise is almost completely extinct. The Contra Costa gang's most well-known founding member is not only in prison, but has denounced Nazism. There's been almost zero movement in the Bay area from FAIM or affiliated peckerwood gangs since around 2018, nearly five years ago. Their most recent headline is involves someone claiming membership with them being killed by police officers.

 

The majority of their former membership has been absorbed by the Aryan brotherhood and practically doesn't exist today on the West Coast. In fact, it's most prevalent in the federal prison system (as with most peckerwood gangs), particularly in Oklahoma and the rest of the Midwest.

 

As for whether it "dominates" anything, most people don't have any clue what "FAIM" stands for. It really only exists in the Rodeo/San Mateo/San Jose area, and has almost zero influence anywhere else. In fact, it's one of the least reported and least notorious street gangs in California at this point, having fizzled out in the early 2010's. 

 

So that statement is just...sort of...false. 

 

You are correct in stating that LCN is almost completely gone in California, a fact I haven't disputed. Of course--the Mob's MO these days is to stay off the radar, but, we'll assume for the sake of argument that they're not being heard from because they're not there anymore.

 

Just like FAIM.

 

2. He said NorCal isn't LA, Therefore I responded saying PB and Grape resemble Bakers and Fresno, which are Centro and So. based towns.

 

So, there's a couple things here.

 

First of all, I'm seeing three ways to interpret this statement. Feel free to pick which one is more accurate:

 

A. You're saying that the GTA V map includes not only SoCal locations, but also Central Cal locations, therefore, it makes sense that FAIM would exist on the server.

 

Sure. This is a sound, logical argument to make. Unfortunately, FAIM doesn't really exist in Southern California or Central California, and is prevalent really only in the East Bay, as we've previously gone over. Of course, you could make the argument that "well, it's different comparing LCN and FAIM because FAIM is in a different part of the state, meanwhile LCN isn't in the state at ALL". 

 

Well...I mean, that doesn't really make sense though, does it? Because where do you draw the line? The Mob is in New York, and New York and California are in the same country, just like how Rodeo and Los Angeles are in the same state.

 

Surely that's not the same thing, though, right? NY is thousands of miles away, LA and the East Bay are right next to eachother!

 

But wait a minute...LA is six hours away from Rodeo. Yep. That's right. The hot-bed of the FAIM, and in fact the only place it's still known to exist today on the West Coast, is a six hour drive from Los Angeles. For comparison, St. Joseph Missouri, where the Mob has never existed, is six hours away from Chicago, Illinois, the biggest Mob hotspot in the country outside of NYC.

 

I mean, Las Vegas is only three hours away from LA. Scottsdale is five hours. Phoenix is six hours. All of these places have had Mob activity in the last decade, and they're all closer to LA than the East Bay is! Reno's only seven hours away--Salt Lake city is only 8 or 9. Where do you draw the line?

 

 

B. You're saying that Bakersfield (I don't think I've ever heard it called Bakers, what part of California are you from?) and Fresno are Northern California locations, and therefore, the GTA V map does in fact include NorCal locations, so it makes sense that FAIM would exist on the server.

 

We've already discussed this. Bakersfield is decidedly Southern California, and Fresno is typically considered Central California. Neither location has any history whatsoever of FAIM presence.

 

Also...Paleto Bay is definitely not based on Fresno. Firstly, Fresno is completely land-locked, and is also fairly flat with few conifers, a significant amount of urban sprawl, and significantly less temperate-climate. Paleto Bay is a coastal town likely based on (and named after) Morro Bay, with attributes from places like Gorman. Both of these places are both also in Southern California.

 

C. You're saying that Paleto Bay and Grapeseed are based on Bakersfield and Fresno, which are southern and central Californian towns...and...that's it. That's all you're saying.

 

In which case...I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out why that's at all important to the discussion. How does pointing that out counter his argument that LA isn't NorCal? 

 

 

So, to wrap all of this up, I didn't really want to waste the better part of thirty minutes telling you specifically why and how you've been misguided in your last couple of replies, but you've basically dragged it out of me by not only insulting me several times, but also by blindly insisting that you're correct despite, in all likelihood, you having never lived in or even visited the Golden state, nor have I doubt you've ever interacted with any of the groups or locations you keep telling us you know so much about.

 

 

Sources:

 

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/05/26/ya-win-some-ya-lose-some-says-irish-gang-founder-after-life-sentence-in-crockett-murder/

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/world-crime/125-people-convicted-after-mass-investigation-into-irish-mob-gang-in-us-prison/41527470.html

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2016/07/22/contra-costa-da-says-irish-mafia-founder-put-a-hit-out-on-attorney/#link_time=1469253480

https://www.azcentral.com/picture-gallery/news/local/arizona-investigations/2022/08/07/photos-richard-cantarella-story-behind-arizonas-italian-american-club/10185945002/

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/links-to-white-supremacist-groups-probed-after-nazi-flags-found-in-raids-on-suspected-california-pipe-bombers/

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/19/white-nationalism-on-rise-in-california-as-bay-area-girds-for-rallies-next-weekend/

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/07/10/father-of-bay-area-irish-gang-founder-sentenced-for-meth-trafficking/

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2016/08/25/contra-costa-white-gang-leader-disavows-use-of-nazi-symbols/

 

 

 

 

 

Original Post:

 

I think LCN RP on the West-Coast is unrealistic. However, it is FAR from the least-realistic aspect of this server, or even the illegal RP community. If people don't want LCN because it's "unrealistic," cool. I'm down with that, as long as they're willing to put their factions on the chopping-block in the name of realism, as well--because that's a pretty big list.

this dude is trying to compare FAIM, literally famously known as enforcement for AB the biggest STG in America  to some Italian Americans taking a trip to LS to start a crime family LMFAO

Edited May 23, 2023 by el capo

[NickyW]

39 minutes ago, el capo said:

this dude is trying to compare FAIM, literally famously known as enforcement for AB the biggest STG in America  to some Italian Americans taking a trip to LS to start a crime family LMFAO

I actually didn’t do that at all. I barely compared the two in real life yet alone ingame. I just pointed out that they barely exist now.

 

It’s not 2006 anymore. The AB’s biggest enforcers aren’t even white anymore lmao. They’re largely allied with Latin gangs, especially in California.

 

you are right that AB is one of the largest STGs, along with MS-13 and Crips/Blood Nation. FAIM however, is nowhere close to the top of the list.

 

it’s interesting you use the term STG, which is almost exclusively used by the federal corrections community  (as opposed to streetside law enforcement), considering that’s pretty much the only place you’ll ever see FAIM these days.

 

Swing up to the Bay Area some time, see if you see any white dudes in Doc Martens lmao. It’s the most progressive, anti-racist part of the country. I’m sure white supremacy gangs are THRIVING there, ya know, even though all of the sources and data say that they aren’t.

 

 

[Crafted]

5 minutes ago, NickyW said:

I actually didn’t do that at all. I barely compared the two in real life yet alone ingame. I just pointed out that they barely exist now.

 

It’s not 2006 anymore. The AB’s biggest enforcers aren’t even white anymore lmao. They’re largely allied with Latin gangs, especially in California.

 

you are right that AB is one of the largest STGs, along with MS-13 and Crips/Blood Nation. FAIM however, is nowhere close to the top of the list.

 

it’s interesting you use the term STG, which is almost exclusively used by the federal corrections community  (as opposed to streetside law enforcement), considering that’s pretty much the only place you’ll ever see FAIM these days.

 

Swing up to the Bay Area some time, see if you see any white dudes in Doc Martens lmao. It’s the most progressive, anti-racist part of the country. I’m sure white supremacy gangs are THRIVING there, ya know, even though all of the sources and data say that they aren’t.

 

 

While I agree with some of your points I wouldn't say MS-13 qualifies as an STG, nor is it even the biggest. MS has maybe 1k documented members in California and they're largely controlled by the biggest STG in Cali, the Mexican Mafia. Maybe in other states they'd be considered an STG, but not in Cali/San Andreas.

 

I do agree with what you're saying though sort of.

 

Still don't think LCN should be a thing in LS though, simply because it doesn't make logical sense.

[el capo]

21 minutes ago, NickyW said:

I actually didn’t do that at all. I barely compared the two in real life yet alone ingame. I just pointed out that they barely exist now.

 

It’s not 2006 anymore. The AB’s biggest enforcers aren’t even white anymore lmao. They’re largely allied with Latin gangs, especially in California.

 

you are right that AB is one of the largest STGs, along with MS-13 and Crips/Blood Nation. FAIM however, is nowhere close to the top of the list.

 

it’s interesting you use the term STG, which is almost exclusively used by the federal corrections community  (as opposed to streetside law enforcement), considering that’s pretty much the only place you’ll ever see FAIM these days.

 

Swing up to the Bay Area some time, see if you see any white dudes in Doc Martens lmao. It’s the most progressive, anti-racist part of the country. I’m sure white supremacy gangs are THRIVING there, ya know, even though all of the sources and data say that they aren’t.

 

 

Never said white supremacy gangs thrive in anything, if it were up to me there'd be one or two of them and a lot more crip/hoover/blood sets, all that other shit about who enforces for AB is debatable I'm not an AB expert or an expert on anything crime related same as you or anyone on this server unless we have someone willing to leak classified FBI documents like bro did on discord we just run with news articles and books like any normal human being playing a rp game.

 

My point is that FAIM being in LS is much more realistic than a crime family being in LS and it's ironic that you with so much "knowledge" would still make such a dumb argument to look like you're winning in a debate lol.

Edited May 24, 2023 by el capo

[NickyW]

12 minutes ago, Crafted said:

While I agree with some of your points I wouldn't say MS-13 qualifies as an STG, nor is it even the biggest. MS has maybe 1k documented members in California and they're largely controlled by the biggest STG in Cali, the Mexican Mafia. Maybe in other states they'd be considered an STG, but not in Cali/San Andreas.

 

I do agree with what you're saying though sort of.

 

Still don't think LCN should be a thing in LS though, simply because it doesn't make logical sense.

I agree with you; I mention MS-13 only because they’re a fairly well known example of what the general public would consider a security threat group. 

[Hadrian]

It'd be nice to have some feedback from IFM. 

@honey. @Igloo

 

May we be honored by having your feedback on this heated yet needed debate? 

[goddessoflife]

Hello, in the past day or so we had over 15+ reports of trolling, ai generated text, random pictures and comments that do not contribute to the discussion.

 

If the topic gets derailed again the discussion will be locked and those who do will get content moderated.

 

 

[Igloo]

4 hours ago, Hadrian said:

It'd be nice to have some feedback from IFM. 

@honey. @Igloo

 

May we be honored by having your feedback on this heated yet needed debate? 

Hey, so, contrary to popular belief, we're really not limiting the existence of any type of Italian-American roleplay on GTA:W, and no, we've not started a crusade against it, this has sadly just spiraled into a huge meme due to just the absurd lengths some of these LCN roleplayers go to, I'm going to do something rare and agree with one of Gallagher's quotes here, but this really was brought onto itself by the community:

9 hours ago, Gallagher said:

 

this kind of statement is the reason why most of the playerbase mock LCN roleplayers

I'm also taking it somewhat out of context, people have simply started complaining to us that Tony Soprano lookalikes started going around businesses and threatening to chop them up with melee weapons if they're not given their monthly "kick up". Obviously this is only an issue with the minority of roleplayers in that scene, and doesn't stand for everyone, but it was noticeable enough for a lot of factions to complain.

 

A lot of the rumors being spread simply aren't true, what we've pushed for is the removal of big LCN crews and crime families, which are simply just not realistic to have in our setting, and it's the same reason why we have restrictions on other concepts that have no place on the west coast. This doesn't mean we don't want smaller crew hanging around, but full on families with dozens of made men is something we're not going to pursue adding anytime in the future.

[Dust]

As someone that has just recently returned to roleplay this year since March 2020, It's a real shame to see such a divide. 

 

If IFM will allow small crews. Will those crews be restricted to X amount of players? 

 

Naturally over time, the crew will grow right? 6 months later the numbers could double, triple etc.

 

The normal progression of any faction is to grow right? In numbers, influence & power. It's what most factions strive for? 

 

I don't understand how small crews will be allowed but the natural progression into multiple crews, then into a crime family, won't be?

 

I'd appreciate it if that could be cleared up because it doesn't make any sense to me!

 

[Igloo]

7 minutes ago, Dust said:

As someone that has just recently returned to roleplay this year since March 2020, It's a real shame to see such a divide. 

 

If IFM will allow small crews. Will those crews be restricted to X amount of players? 

 

Naturally over time, the crew will grow right? 6 months later the numbers could double, triple etc.

 

The normal progression of any faction is to grow right? In numbers, influence & power. It's what most factions strive for? 

 

I don't understand how small crews will be allowed but the natural progression into multiple crews, then into a crime family, won't be?

 

I'd appreciate it if that could be cleared up because it doesn't make any sense to me!

 

 

Not all concepts are designed to have dozens upon dozens of members, growth isn't steady, people come and leave, factions don't simply inflate to infinity, but when we're talking about LCN families compared to crews, we're talking about a difference of half of a hundred members within a crime family, to dozens within a crew, it's realistic for factions to strive and strive for a better standing, but not all concepts allow you to have exponential growth. Trying to force a concept into becoming a powerhouse when in reality there are limitations to their power isn't something the community would even allow, from an IC standpoint.

 

The whole point of this is to roleplay in a realistic environment and to be aware characters and concepts have limitations (that is the whole point here, to strive for power in lieu of heavy adversity from many other competing parties), which shouldn't even be set by us, all in all, your power as a faction should come from your connections and dependencies / interactions with other factions, instead of some imposed tag by us that creates an OOC barrier and further pushes the agenda of "I'm with them, fear me, even though I've not done anything of relevancy and all I have is my /stats information link me to a powerful faction", roleplay should come before any of that, the veil of supremacy purely based on your faction's standing shouldn't exist if it cannot be backed up with roleplay.