Problem with PD alts

[Declan]

Just now, Jola said:

I'd say that essential members should be pointed out and allowed to come back due to the importance of their presence in the faction, I also think that if PD has that liberty it should be given to any other faction for the same reason. 

What would you define as an essential member? I’ve been in the LSSD since launch, does that make me anymore essential than someone who joined last month? 

[Jari13X]

Just now, Declan said:

What would you define as an essential member? I’ve been in the LSSD since launch, does that make me anymore essential than someone who joined last month? 

No, the question is - can the faction still operate without you in your current position? If it can then I don't see why you get to come back with the same rank and no development.

[Declan]

9 minutes ago, Jola said:

No, the question is - can the faction still operate without you in your current position? If it can then I don't see why you get to come back with the same rank and no development.

I agree with you completely. The faction would be fine without me. When I namechanged I voluntarily stepped down from my rank because I wanted to develop a new character. I’m fine with doing that. I don’t care about ranks, I care about my roleplay.

 

The thing with the LSSD is that everyone has the same rank authority until you hit Sergeant, which is roughly six months of your time OOC. But, you’ve got people who’ve waited longer for an invite to an official illegal faction — the thing with legal factions is that you don’t have to CK for anything whereas you can be CKed at anytime in an illegal faction.

 

Is there a compromise? Do we make LEO rpers CK over certain situations? How do we make LEO rpers fear losing their character more? By rank reductions?

Edited August 20, 2020 by Declan

[Jari13X]

5 minutes ago, Declan said:

I agree with you completely. The faction would be fine without me. When I namechanged I voluntarily stepped down from my rank because I wanted to develop a new character. I’m fine with doing that. I don’t care about ranks, I care about my roleplay.

 

The thing with the LSSD is that everyone has the same rank authority until you hit Sergeant, which is roughly six months of your time OOC. But, you’ve got people who’ve waited longer for an invite to an official illegal faction — the thing with legal factions is that you don’t have to CK for anything whereas you can be CKed at anytime in an illegal faction.

 

Is there a compromise? Do we make LEO rpers CK over certain situations?

Just disregard for life, anything else should decided by the faction leader, like any other faction for example if somebody gets shot up but they didn't necessarily disregard but the situation warranted their death, the leader or the individual could take that into consideration but if you run into a crib with three officers and get shot up, that's clearly disregard for life and you should be CKed same for illegal roleplayers and shooting at cops. 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Jola

[Queen]

40 minutes ago, Jola said:

Just disregard for life, anything else should decided by the faction leader, like any other faction for example if somebody gets shot up but they didn't necessarily disregard but the situation warranted their death, the leader or the individual could take that into consideration but if you run into a crib with three officers and get shot up, that's clearly disregard for life and you should be CKed same for illegal roleplayers and shooting at cops. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's already a thing? I'm fairly certain that if you believe an officer acted outside the scope of reason within a given situation you are indeed able to take it up with staff(or likely legal management, not sure how that works).

[Garras Up]

1 hour ago, Declan said:

Is there a compromise? Do we make LEO rpers CK over certain situations? How do we make LEO rpers fear losing their character more? By rank reductions?

IMO there needs to be more consequences for them. If they're cked for something, or their character is kicked out of the department, they shouldnt be able to make another character in the exact same rank. It abolishes the consequences. If one of my leading characters in a faction is CKed, I'm not allowed to make a new character in that same rank, nor am i even permitted to create a character who wants that same rank. To be able to see PD's doing it, is kinda unfair.

 

LEO Rpers should be CKable if they do things that no cop would do in real life, like fuck around with gang members alone, hassle them or provoke, any kind of behaviour that shows a disregard for one's life should be CKable, as it is for illegal rpers.

Edited August 20, 2020 by El Ghetto Man

[effion]

Quote

Should a character be CKed or name changed, the character that comes after should have no connection to the previous character. Any character in a faction that is name changed or CKed must follow Faction Management's regulations for returning to the same faction. If a faction has no written agreement with Faction Management, then a returning character should be discussed with Faction Management. The purpose of this rule is to make sure CKs have an impact on factions.

From the official rules.
I'm assuming the FM regulations for PD are that they are allowed to NC and make a new but unique character within the LSPD? 
There are not many people that CK very often in PD I'm pretty sure, it's a very case-by-case basis.
I can understand a lot of effort goes into a character and the faction but there should be some negative to CKing, people shouldn't just be able to dump a character and then start at same rank like nothing ever happened as if they took a transfer or something.

Edited August 20, 2020 by effion

[Halcyon]

7 hours ago, DirtNasty said:

When a illegal faction member is CK'd do you think they start a alt in the same position as their old character? Absolutely not. Infact, I think there is rules against this type of behavior in factions. People have to get approval to RP with their factions on alts and such. Why is the PD held to a different standard?

Yes. I’ve seen it first hand. Someone retaining their leader status after being CKd. Stop acting like illegal RPers are the staple of this community. If you have a problem with certain people in the PD take it up with high command and stop faction bashing. Thanks. 

[Sacred]

Your rank after coming back from a namechange in PD / SD should be dealt on a case-by-case basis. There are certain elements to every single situation, and every single part of it. Illegal factions aren't permitted to come back with the same rank; and so yes; I don't see why legal factions are?

[Ink]

6 minutes ago, Sacred said:

Your rank after coming back from a namechange in PD / SD should be dealt on a case-by-case basis. There are certain elements to every single situation, and every single part of it. Illegal factions aren't permitted to come back with the same rank; and so yes; I don't see why legal factions are?

To be quite fair--and I say this with minimal bias because I am neither involved in criminal RP or PD RP on the server--the two are not fully comparable in that regard. Criminal factions come and go, and they're based on immense amounts of character development (at least ideally). A character can rise up through the ranks in a faction in a matter of weeks if it's fresh enough, and that rise is integral to the culture of the illegal faction. There are some serious mixing/metagaming concerns if a player in a leadership role in the criminal faction CKs and creates a new character out of the air who magically has the same rank. Why are all the other members of the organization following this guy? Isn't he going to just slot right in almost exactly where the last character left off?

With the PD, it's different both ICly and OOCly. ICly, the organization is large and vast, and a new police officer can be a transfer from a department somewhere else in the country. So, ICly, it makes sense why a new officer would appear in the department and automatically have a rank. It is also less of a stretch to say that this character was previously a police officer in Los Santos as there is no powergaming in saying that the LSPD has been around for decades ICly, while in the case of a criminal faction it's a lot more iffy to say your character used to be a high-level member of the criminal faction "in the past" and has just come back. 

But more importantly, there's the OOC side of things. It takes months and months of effort in the PD to pass recruitment, to be initiated, to be trained, and to roleplay through the department to learn the ins and outs. There is a huge OOC knowledge and OOC training component of the PD. Frankly, the server needs good, experienced cops. It takes a really long time OOCly for us to get players to a point in the LSPD where they're able to realistically and constructively portray high-ranking characters. Now, I feel that this system can do with a bit of changing overall, but this is the wrong thread to address exactly that point. Specifically to the issue of PD members namechanging/CKing and making another character of a similar rank, there are some serious OOC reasons why we cannot just burn through all those months of work just in the interest of having an effective PD.

 

While they are both player factions, the LSPD is a necessary faction on the server. It must exist, it must be staffed, and it must be effective and full of knowledgeable and dependable roleplayers. It MUST or else this server will no longer be a heavy RP server. That is how vital it is. While having a criminal element on the server is also important, one individual criminal faction is not the make-or-break of this server's success. That's why there should be slightly different rules for how consequences apply and what road bumps there are.

For a criminal faction, a key member dying or namechanging SHOULD be a big hit. That's not an easy thing to replace in real life. You lost a trustworthy, experienced, capable individual who (likely) had the respect of people, connections, and influence. You've lost that person, and that's a hit. Realistically, if the LAPD lost a high-ranking officer, it'd be really sad and a lot of people would be emotionally hurt, but business would continue 100% as usual. The machine would not even miss a beat.