PKs

[eTaylor]

10 hours ago, Astralsomnia said:

-If a friend kills another friend, you basically have to invent someone who never existed as per the PK rules, and try to separate these two very similar people from your history.

Just revert to a previous session or a “day restart” type deal or bypass the scenario with another. Cops get murdered all the time, doesn’t mean they stop being cops or loose their partners/friends. We don’t have funerals every day. If you get killed as a civilian as part of a robbery gone wrong or unabated gang violence I seriously doubt anyone is going to give a shit if you pop up some time later to go to the bar with the same friend. As far as I’ve always interpreted the spirit of the rules surrounding PKs they aren’t meant to destroy your social network but to restrict retaliatory options. Without it we’d have spiraling warfare, it’s about the only thing death rules do, keep the dead from coming back for more conflict. 
 

 

10 hours ago, Astralsomnia said:

-Murder charges against someone who was PK'd can be impossible to investigate, since the actual person killed never really existed

Murder charges have an OOC distinction between PK victims and CK victims. Only cases involving CK victims are required to go through court by mandatory requirement. PK cases don’t usually go through court on account if most being plead guilty. When they do the facts are more important than the name behind the deceased. 
 

10 hours ago, Astralsomnia said:

-Having your character forget the person who killed you can also lead to severe continuity issues, especially if people you met were via said perso

You can usually figure this out with the person who killed you. This scenario is however common in factions where wider CK permissions apply ergo nullifying that issue. Also, you might consider a CK yourself if you found yourself in a social spiderweb network surrounding your killer. More importantly though, why wouldn’t the killer apply for a CK application in this case to begin with? And again, rules pertaining to PKs are almost entirely hung on the point of keeping the dead from retaliating, not about collapsing your roleplay or network. That’s why cops killed investigating a gang aren’t allowed to rejoin the investigation. If the relations in that network are intertwined with the PK itself then you’d just have to couple that to the death and move on, especially when logic links both the relation and the death together. 

 

11 hours ago, Astralsomnia said:

the point is a lot of people on this server are willing to murder someone over unrealistically small things

As we have since 2007, and will likely continue to do so in 2041. The PK/CK concept hasn’t much changed since, and people have always found a way to play with it. As will you, and anyone else. The weight of an unknown party murdering you is entirely up to you, and whether you wish to CK or not also up to you. Maybe a more important question to ask yourself is; aren’t you putting too much weight on a PK? Maybe PKs are difficult to compute with because you’re adding way too much pressure to what is essentially just a respawn and light reawakening. And if a death involving a PK already puts you in an incompatible position, you’re always welcome to CK yourself.

 

This is coming from a person who gets PKed frequently because I suck at shooting in this game. 

[codependency]

11 hours ago, Astralsomnia said:

People have suggested in the past that we should enforce CKs and do away with PKs all together, because in that case it would help with continuity and also might even reduce crime

whys reducing crime a good thing lol

 

11 hours ago, Astralsomnia said:

Currently, there are multiple issues with the PK system.

-If a friend kills another friend, you basically have to invent someone who never existed as per the PK rules, and try to separate these two very similar people from your history.

-Murder charges against someone who was PK'd can be impossible to investigate, since the actual person killed never really existed

-Having your character forget the person who killed you can also lead to severe continuity issues, especially if people you met were via said person.

1. just pretend the situation in which they died never happened

2. no, pk’s are situation relative. if you evaded the cops then there’s a warrant out on you and you get pked by an ic rival due to an unrelated situation then that doesn’t mean the warrant that’s out on you goes away.

3. you just pretend that person never killed you or if it really bothers you then just don’t rp with people who killed you.

 

there’s no problem with the system and enforcing CKs for every PK is the silliest shit ever because it harms illegal roleplayers and also indirectly harms cops because they won’t have any crimes to respond to. 

[blanco leopardo]

You made a suggestion then you go ahead and tell people that it’s not a suggestion but a brainstorming idea… as you can see this sub-section is called “rule suggestions” and not “general discussions” or “rule brainstorming”. 

https://forum.gta.world/en/forum/12-general-discussions/

 

 

To react to this “suggestion”: No, no need to overcomplicate anything that’s working right now. Stop making “suggestions” just because you’re butthurt.

[Vindicator]

Talking about this from my personal experiences. I don't see why the current system has to change. In the times I've been PK'ed. As soon as I accepted death, my body turned into "John Doe". It changed nothing for the investigation surrounding my death, because the facts of what happened didn't change because the name of my corpse did. I just pretended IC'ly the situation never happened. And once the situation's RP was over, I got my car back and went about my time.

 

Being involved from the other side as seeing people get killed, honestly not much changed either. The body changed to "John Doe", and I continued with my RP. If it was a situation that impacted my character, I RP'ed the impact appropriately, and just slightly changed why it affected my character as much as it did. 

 

This suggestion seems to overcomplicate a situation that doesn't need overcomplication. And as serower mentioned, it seems overkill to force CKs in situations that don't call for it. Not to mention how much it'd harm RP overal. Both on the legal side and the illegal side. Especially with how many people die on a daily basis. 

 

To sum this up. I don't think the system needs changing at all. It's fine the way it is, and it's worked for a long time.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Vindicator

[marbella mondays]

no

[Astralsomnia]

3 hours ago, blanco leopardo said:

You made a suggestion then you go ahead and tell people that it’s not a suggestion but a brainstorming idea… as you can see this sub-section is called “rule suggestions” and not “general discussions” or “rule brainstorming”. 

https://forum.gta.world/en/forum/12-general-discussions/

 

 

To react to this “suggestion”: No, no need to overcomplicate anything that’s working right now. Stop making “suggestions” just because you’re butthurt.

 

I wasn't PKd though lmao, this system has nothing to do with me being butthurt. Stop projecting.

[Engelbert]

On 12/29/2023 at 12:13 AM, Astralsomnia said:

Alright so, basically the current PK system is sort of a mess.

 

People have suggested in the past that we should enforce CKs and do away with PKs all together, because in that case it would help with continuity and also might even reduce crime, however it would create a huge workload on the admins who will have to deal with a severe uptick in CK appeals.

 

Currently, there are multiple issues with the PK system.

-If a friend kills another friend, you basically have to invent someone who never existed as per the PK rules, and try to separate these two very similar people from your history.

-Murder charges against someone who was PK'd can be impossible to investigate, since the actual person killed never really existed

-Having your character forget the person who killed you can also lead to severe continuity issues, especially if people you met were via said person.

 

I don't have a solution to these problems besides maybe enforce CK and put up with the uptick in appeals, but I know that won't be a popular option given how most people don't want their character to die to random acts of violence. My character was once assassinated by someone who thought my character was constantly harassing them, even though all she did was call the cops on them once. The scene was voided, but the point is a lot of people on this server are willing to murder someone over unrealistically small things. That would pair very negatively with a permakill system.

 

So, I'm opening this topic to brainstorm suggestions to make this rule more immersive.

 

1st of all, faction and "friend" kills are usually always CKs, because that's a solid pain to implement if it's a PK. (But still doable).

2nd - A PK murder charge can still be investigated, with few changes. But it can still be fun. (My char was investigated and sentenced for a PK).

3rd - A PK means your character never died, therefore your murderer killed someone irrelevant to their story and thus it counts only as a honorable mention within their faction.

 (Hey so we exit this bar and see this bitch again, we stomped them and ran away. Later on my bro saw cops pulling out a body bag.) - This is PK.

For this reason alone only CKs count. Cause otherwise everyone on the server is a crazed serial killer. (Character I killed, was banned later on I think, so technically it counts as a CK).

Edited December 31, 2023 by Engelbert

[Mantis]

No.

[Vindicator]

Keep it on topic please. Anything that derails the thread will be met with punishment. Stick to the conversation topic.

Edited January 1 by Vindicator

[RoyalPainter]

doesn’t need to be over complicated whatsoever. i think ur overthinking it a little too much and need to chill and just play the game